A month later... where is Lisa? What is your opinion?

[dizzychick]

Here's a story about a body pulled from the river very recently... after two years. So we never know.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20111018/news/710189785/

A duffle bag and a few bricks would fix that I think I dunno anything about rivers or where that particular area of the river leads to. I hope they find a way to check it but im not holding my breath that would be a small package weighted down I would guess so who knows if it can be retrieved.

 

[neese]

The only reason that keeps me from totally going there that DB harmed Lisa is because I don't know for the life of me how in the world you can find people that would actually cover up the death of a little child for you. I would not do it for my best friend, my neighbor, my pastor, my family, NOBODY. Look at CA. 31 days total and she had no help with her cover up. But then again, she did have 41 different personalities so I guess you could say 40 people helped cover up CMA's death, bless her little heart in heaven.

 

[LadyPirate]

I'm still on the fence as to who did what, but I do feel that DB has to bear part of the responsibility IF she were actually so drunk she blacked out. A parent, who is an actual responsible person, does not drink until they reach the blackout phase when they have 3 children in the home that they are supposedly caring for.

Whether or not she could have prevented a kidnapping, she could at least have given for certain a time and a description or partial description of the perp.

I'm really almost thinking that the B neighbors know more about this than they are saying. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they took the child and she is still alive. However, there is that dog hit in the bedroom...........

 

[Amster]

I think mommy killed Lisa, accidentally or on purpose, bagged her up and tossed her in the river.

 

[SuziQ]

No idea.

 

[decemberbee45]

This fence is so uncomfortable! I am usually pretty certain about things, but not this case. I mean, their stories changed...mom's behavior irresponsible at best...dad gone all night for the first time, but DB looks so darn bewildered to me.

Thanks for the poll and the superior sleuthing that you all do!

 

[Melanie]

yes I believe there was help to cover up! :furious:

That's what I'm thinking too. Black Out Drunk (if she was in fact drunk) would have a hard time covering up a body.

But then I can't think about my theory that Black Out Drunk poured the wine down the sink to make me think she was Black Out Drunk and actually killed baby Lisa, but wants to convince me otherwise.

Oi Vey!

Mel

 

[natsound]

I think we're all jaded by the MCA circus, and we are taking it out on this mother.

There have been times where my 5 yo daughter has driven me nuts and I would have liked to guzzle some wine too- and I have. (Fair enough, not falling down drunk, but very merry.) I think all the talking heads who are ready to draw and quarter this woman because she admitted to being drunk are a bunch of sensationalist hypocrates. Parents can and do make mistakes. Nobody is denying drinking to excess when you are being an active caretaker of a child is a bad idea- and nobody regrets it more than that poor mother.

Why she initially denied it, then downplayed the amount was obvious: she was afraid of her other kids being taken away from her too, but by social workers. In her position, with the media already beginning to label you a baby-killer and a horrific excuse for a mother, many of you might have done the same thing.

Her defense lawyer is very good. Like it or not, he's giving them good legal advice: don't give the media anything more to hang you with- because they *will* hang you to sell papers and commercial time on TV. Perhaps they don't want the 2 little boys interviewed for the same resons Elizabeth Smart's parents didn't pressure her sister (who was also sleeping in the same room when Elizabeth was abducted). Perhaps when the kids are not scared or pressured to say *something*, ANYTHING, they will talk. I would rather preserve my child's potential memory as a witness and be derided in the media than risk losing a vital clue by someone putting words into my child's mouth or altering their memory.

I think it's time people stop seeing the world through the leftover poison of the CA trial. In that case, clearly she was guilty. In this one, this family deserves compassion.

While I respect your opinion, I strongly disagree. DB drank in excess.. did not check on her sick baby at all after 6:30 p.m. (even went to sleep herself without checking on her!), and now she's trivializing the fact that she was drunk. Her daughter is gone, but she doesn't seem to think her being drunk may have caused her to be somewhat less than alert. I don't necessarily believe her story, but this is what she wants us to believe and accept.

If DB had taken any responsibility in the disappearance of her own daughter at all, I would be open to compassion. As it is, I just feel frustration, and fear that this case will end up just as the Casey case did.. with the guilty party going scott-free.

 

[Aedrys]

I said both !

I believe drunk MOM was responsible for Lisa's Death (yes i believe she is dead).
Dad JI comes home and finds a dead Lisa and a passed out DEb..He runs to check on the boys.
this is why he never checks Lisas room because she is in with deb. He has to think quick and starts the cover up...

That's how I feel too. I've always been bothered that he mentions not checking on Lisa first, but only checking on her after checking on the boys and then Deb. It was something about the way he phrased it, like he knew that Lisa wasn't her in room but with her mother, and maybe found her dead with her passed out mother. Why would the last thing on his mind be the baby? I would think if he feared something was wrong, Lisa would be the FIRST person he would check on, not the last. It was like checking on Lisa was added as an afterthought to cover the fact that he really didn't check on her because she wasn't in her room like DB said she was. Basically, he was making his story match DB's.

I think he has helped cover this up. I think both parents know what happened to that baby, and that is why they continue to stand by each other. Each is probably afraid if they ever left, the other would turn on them. And I do think those boys know something. It may not be something that seems important to the boys, but something that would definitely get mom and dad into trouble, which is why they don't want those boys interviewed again.

I have to say, I do have some trouble with this as these parents do NOT seem like other parents like Casey Anthony, Kyron's stepmother, etc. Those I just knew in my gut were not only guilty but also evil people. I don't see evil here, but I do see people that don't want to get into trouble for what happened to Lisa. It's possible that Deb has blocked what happened and doesn't want to remember it. I think JI remembers everything, though. And I have to admit that it's possible that this was a tragic accident, though I wonder why there is such a coverup if that is the case.

So I guess I'm still barely touching the fence, but have my feet on the side of them being guilty. I have never had such complex feelings in a case before!

 

[BritsKate]

I just have to say that mothers murdering their children occurred long, long before Casey Anthony and sadly will continue to happen for generations to come.

Recently I have been doing research into 16-18th century infanticides in England. Proper records were not kept until the 18th century though when pioneering research into convictions/acquittals of those accused of murdering their children began. There was then a sympathy for mothers because no one could believe a mother would murder their child without being mad. Mothers whom were affluent or married were acquitted while the mothers of illegitimate children were often convicted. The last woman to be hung in England was executed for infanticide.

Casey Anthony does not make me believe a mother is more likely to kill her child but rather the scores of women who have killed their child(ren) in the 20-21st centuries alone. We all know Casey's name...but there's Darlie, Diane, Stacy, Susan, Shakara, Elizabeth, Donna and so many others. It just didn't start with Casey and truthfully I would rather not give her the power to influence my opinion.

I do not know if Debbi had a hand in what happened to Lisa but what I do know is the fact that her timeline has changed; her refusal to cooperate with law enforcement; her reluctance to pursue all avenues of media open to her; her silence about Lisa as a person; her inability to recall the events of October 3rd; her failed polygraph and the HRD hit in her bedroom leave me great cause for concern and suspicion.

Saying that I truly hope she isn't involved. I am so sick of parents being involved in the murder of those who love and trust them most.

 

[natsound]

A duffle bag and a few bricks would fix that I think I dunno anything about rivers or where that particular area of the river leads to. I hope they find a way to check it but im not holding my breath that would be a small package weighted down I would guess so who knows if it can be retrieved.

Not necessarily. Wasn't Laci's body weighted down? So o/t, I know..

 

[Aedrys]

I think we're all jaded by the MCA circus, and we are taking it out on this mother.

There have been times where my 5 yo daughter has driven me nuts and I would have liked to guzzle some wine too- and I have. (Fair enough, not falling down drunk, but very merry.) I think all the talking heads who are ready to draw and quarter this woman because she admitted to being drunk are a bunch of sensationalist hypocrates. Parents can and do make mistakes. Nobody is denying drinking to excess when you are being an active caretaker of a child is a bad idea- and nobody regrets it more than that poor mother.

Why she initially denied it, then downplayed the amount was obvious: she was afraid of her other kids being taken away from her too, but by social workers. In her position, with the media already beginning to label you a baby-killer and a horrific excuse for a mother, many of you might have done the same thing.

Her defense lawyer is very good. Like it or not, he's giving them good legal advice: don't give the media anything more to hang you with- because they *will* hang you to sell papers and commercial time on TV. Perhaps they don't want the 2 little boys interviewed for the same resons Elizabeth Smart's parents didn't pressure her sister (who was also sleeping in the same room when Elizabeth was abducted). Perhaps when the kids are not scared or pressured to say *something*, ANYTHING, they will talk. I would rather preserve my child's potential memory as a witness and be derided in the media than risk losing a vital clue by someone putting words into my child's mouth or altering their memory.

I think it's time people stop seeing the world through the leftover poison of the CA trial. In that case, clearly she was guilty. In this one, this family deserves compassion.

Honestly, I've had the opposite reaction. I admit, I did at first look for similarities between cases. However, this case is so different from cases like CA that it has left me confused and baffled. Some elements are there, but some are not, and it is driving me crazy. So no, I'm not jaded, just wishing I had enough information to make a solid judgment. The other cases I followed were so much easier because the guilt of the person was just so much more apparent than it is here.

 

[PoppyH]

Ive no Idea, , just afraid this will go the way of Haleigh, Kyron , Lindsay, Joshua and the countless others......... god bless them all

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The only reason that keeps me from totally going there that DB harmed Lisa is because I don't know for the life of me how in the world you can find people that would actually cover up the death of a little child for you. I would not do it for my best friend, my neighbor, my pastor, my family, NOBODY. Look at CA. 31 days total and she had no help with her cover up. But then again, she did have 41 different personalities so I guess you could say 40 people helped cover up CMA's death, bless her little heart in heaven.

Like yourself, I would never consider asking anyone - or expect anyone - to assist in the cover up of a crime (or even a fatal accident). That said, DB comes across as aggressive, controlling, outspoken, and a bit of a bully in interviews, and I believe that she could very well "order" someone to do dirty work for her. jmo

 

[Katana]

I believe Deborah shook, smothered or hit Lisa. I'm still unsure if someone helped DB in covering up and I'm still on the fence if JI knows more about the incident/cell phones. He does appear to be hiding something.

 

[natsound]

me too.. and the recently overturned earth in the backyard.. along with what LE said today.. that they had recovered evidence of value to the investigation during their searches.

BBM

I had forgotten about that! Yep...

 

[natsound]

I said both !

I believe drunk MOM was responsible for Lisa's Death (yes i believe she is dead).
Dad JI comes home and finds a dead Lisa and a passed out DEb..He runs to check on the boys.
this is why he never checks Lisas room because she is in with deb. He has to think quick and starts the cover up...

But why would dad want to cover up the death of his own child? What would be in it for him?

 

[Aedrys]

But why would dad want to cover up the death of his own child? What would be in it for him?

Maybe so he wouldn't lose his son to his ex? If he was being very aggressive about custody of his son, I would think anything that might jeopardize that custody, he would cover up. I think that would be enough to motivate him to cover his own child's death. The court system is usually harder on dads than it is on moms.

 

[Quiche]

I had to say both parents, because to all extents and purposes, they are, and have been, on the same page-- NOT being helpful. Too hinky for my taste.

 

[~n/t~]

Same as day 1. No idea what happened to baby Lisa.