well when you said God did not give us children to throw under the bus I wanted you to know I had them for other reasons too.
A Mother's Unconditional Love
- Thread starter Pattymarie
- Start date
yeah magic-cat, I know.
I don't really think that anyone here is supporting
the idea of believing lies and all that. That is not
loving, as I believe you have pointed out. I fully agree with that.
I think a lot of peeps are saying all the same things,
but in different ways.
Annie Maude
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2009
- Messages
- 81
- Reaction score
- 1
If one of my children murdered someone, stole repeatedly, was promiscuous, irresponsible, etc, to tell the truth i would probably still love them. I would think something was terribly "wrong" with them, and I'm sure I would blame myself and relive their childhood and rearing, asking myself what I would have done differently. I would probably still hold out hope that things couldn't be as bad as they looked, and search desperately for signs of "goodness" in them.
My heart breaks for the Anthonys in this tragic situation. But I cannot understand how they lie and blame other innocent people, and most of all, how they could not have cooperated with the police and with Tim Miller, who as far as I'm concerned is a saint.
My heart breaks for the Anthonys in this tragic situation. But I cannot understand how they lie and blame other innocent people, and most of all, how they could not have cooperated with the police and with Tim Miller, who as far as I'm concerned is a saint.
magic-cat
Mother to Many
You are most welcome, and having 6 children, and KNOWING the hardship of raising them and the difficulties that you face on a moment by moment basis, don't you find it hard if not impossible to feel sorry for Casey in her "Poor me, I had it so hard" attitude? I know I do! That girl had it easy as pie, with one child and living with her parents and not a care in the world, and yet, she could not handle parenting. Thanks be to glory that she will not be able to bring another child into HER world.
magic-cat
Mother to Many
By Job I think you're right!:crazy:
It wasn't your post that made me think
of the remarks I wrote.......
then I saw yours after I posted.
<sigh>
I also use your idea of the remote control and
a few others. LOL!
magic-cat
Mother to Many
It wasn't your post that made me think
of the remarks I wrote.......
then I saw yours after I posted.
<sigh>
I also use your idea of the remote control and
a few others. LOL!
12 and above are most excellent at carrying coffee!
and will swear, although they do not do much of anything else but tend to their own personal items and rooms, that they are SLAVES because of it!OH sure how convenient. LOL.It wasn't your post that made me think
of the remarks I wrote.......
then I saw yours after I posted.
<sigh>
I also use your idea of the remote control and
a few others. LOL!
Kids are also good for running and grabbing a roll of toilet paper when ya really need it.
My kids are pretty cool except my 21 yo who is super annoying. he has epilepsy and talk about drama! Plus he is reading this over my shoulder hahahaha.
magic-cat
Mother to Many
zadari
Active Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
- Messages
- 2,092
- Reaction score
- 11
i think my mom would too .. only if i was sick and wasnt myself .other than that shed call the cops if i were of sound mind
Well, I only have one adult son,
so what would I know - right?:waitasec:
"how convenient"
but LMAO anyway!!!
magic-cat
Mother to Many
Originally Posted by OneLostGrl
I have brought this up before too but- my mom is the type who would cover and lie and destroy evidence for me.
But it would not be to "help" you really, would it? In your case, and knowing some of your history-wouldn't it be a control issue? Like, boy do you owe me NOW! That is what my own mother would do, but with another twist, later, years down the road, she would throw me to the wolves after she had me firmly under her control...
Been missing you!
I have brought this up before too but- my mom is the type who would cover and lie and destroy evidence for me.
But it would not be to "help" you really, would it? In your case, and knowing some of your history-wouldn't it be a control issue? Like, boy do you owe me NOW! That is what my own mother would do, but with another twist, later, years down the road, she would throw me to the wolves after she had me firmly under her control...
Been missing you!
Imajica
Defender of Lost Angels and Sporks
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 1
I got the sense that both George and Cindy were saying to Casey, "We know the truth, we know who you really are, we know about all of the lies, and yes we still love you Casey, but we know what you did to Caylee.."
I think the Love they expressed for their Daughter was tinged heavily with the bitter, sour taste of Rage and Grief that the light of their lives is now gone. All that remains in it's place is this hateful, selfish and cold version of the young woman they wanted so very badly for her to be when she reached maturity.
I missed the beginning of the service, so I only saw the last half of George's heartfelt speech on through to the end.
I feel that Cindy in particular today was still stinging from the immature rebuke Casey made in her public statement against the "Public" Memorial and Cremation. It was timed in my opinion, by Casey as a very calculated attempt to disrespect her Parents. By stating her displeasure regarding the "Public Memorial and Cremation" she seemed to think she was painting her Mother and Father in a negative light, and simultaneously portraying herself as the "Grieving Young Mother" who has been "cast aside and abandoned" by her "Insensitive Family". It was ill advised, especially the very day before the Service. Her parents it appeared to me still tried not to lower themselves to her immature and petty level, while at the same time taking their own very subtle jabs at their VERY self-absorbed daughter. Yes, they still Love her. But you can still feel Love and Loathing for someone at the same time. It also appears that they are attempting to "Love the Child, but not the Choice.." even as Casey publicly attempts to undermine her Parents sincere attempt to allow the Community to mourn alongside the people that Caylee loved most in this World.
As many of us have stated along the way the last seven months, the position that these Parents/Grandparents is one too horrible to even try and fully comprehend on any real level. I know at a certain point, you start to feel as if you are going completely Mad. You keep hoping every time you close your eyes that you are going to wake up, and realize it's all been a ghastly dream. However, you wake up every morning to the same yawning chasm in your Heart. The same painful flood of thoughts and memories waits impatiently to unleash the unyielding tidal waves of agony that engulf you from one moment to the next. You cannot run away from it, you cannot turn it off, and without warning the most innocent of events can turn the dial up on the pain past rational thought. It shapes and remakes you into a shell of who you were before your precious Loved one vanished from sight. Then imagine realizing on top of the agony and fear for your missing loved one, that another family member is perhaps responsible for every millisecond of pain you are feeling. Imagine learning that the person you loved, was never who you thought they were inside. The thought at first is so ridiculous that you feel silly and ashamed for even thinking it. You defend, and make excuses to anyone who will listen. But there's always this little gnawing voice that says; "You know The Truth.." It takes a tremendous deal of Strength and Courage to allow that voice to get louder. It's much easier to squash those painful words and point fingers at anything and anyone else in order to keep the focus off the one you are protecting from reality and reason. The person of course that you are trying so desperately to protect is none other than yourself. Because admitting the Truth, and seeing the face of grotesque evil in the eyes and heart of your own flesh and blood is the last card to fall in the haphazard house of cards you've created to survive until that moment.
Not everyone is strong enough to face that maelstrom head on and still be able to come out swinging on the other side. Many people take one look at the churning black hole up ahead and run straight the other direction, falling even deeper into the false security of their "fantasy world" where things really aren't what they seem.
We Humans, are fragile, complicated, brilliantly clueless creatures. Our whole lives are a learning process, and even in Death we leave much of our growing incomplete. We are also creatures of habit. Take us out of our comfort zone and toss us headfirst into the lions den and we may just decide to lay down and let the lion eat us. Only belatedly realizing that perhaps there could have been another way to approach the situation.
I think George and Cindy have finally pried open the Lion's mouth, and are now starting to slowly climb out if it, one shaky foot at a time. It's a long and painful process. I hope they both have the Courage to stand tall against the lies, mind games and memories.
It's going to get much, much harder before it even begins to get easier. I feel in my heart that Baez is going to drag out every single salacious and juicy "fact" that he and Casey can concoct to explain how she became a Child Murderer.
The "unconditional love" that they feel for Casey will be stretched and pushed even farther past the breaking point in hundreds of ways both big and small. I hope they learn very soon that you can "Love" and still "Let Go" of toxic family members. The two things are not mutually exclusive of each other. No matter what though, for Caylee's sake I sincerely hope that the remaining "jail free" members of the Anthony Family find some sense of Hope and Healing in the birth of their new Grandchild. Part of me secretly hopes that there is more than a little bit of Caylee in this precious new life. They have a chance to write a happier ending for this Innocent, and I know there will be many, many things they will choose to do differently this time around. As bittersweet as it will be, a new baby is exactly what Cindy, George and Lee need to begin the healing process, and to refocus their attention on the things that really matter in this short life.
Nothing can remind us about the raw power of unconditional love quite like a newborn baby to love..
No matter what these people do deserve to heal and again feel the special love that only a grandchild can feel for their beloved grandparents.
I think the Love they expressed for their Daughter was tinged heavily with the bitter, sour taste of Rage and Grief that the light of their lives is now gone. All that remains in it's place is this hateful, selfish and cold version of the young woman they wanted so very badly for her to be when she reached maturity.
I missed the beginning of the service, so I only saw the last half of George's heartfelt speech on through to the end.
I feel that Cindy in particular today was still stinging from the immature rebuke Casey made in her public statement against the "Public" Memorial and Cremation. It was timed in my opinion, by Casey as a very calculated attempt to disrespect her Parents. By stating her displeasure regarding the "Public Memorial and Cremation" she seemed to think she was painting her Mother and Father in a negative light, and simultaneously portraying herself as the "Grieving Young Mother" who has been "cast aside and abandoned" by her "Insensitive Family". It was ill advised, especially the very day before the Service. Her parents it appeared to me still tried not to lower themselves to her immature and petty level, while at the same time taking their own very subtle jabs at their VERY self-absorbed daughter. Yes, they still Love her. But you can still feel Love and Loathing for someone at the same time. It also appears that they are attempting to "Love the Child, but not the Choice.." even as Casey publicly attempts to undermine her Parents sincere attempt to allow the Community to mourn alongside the people that Caylee loved most in this World.
As many of us have stated along the way the last seven months, the position that these Parents/Grandparents is one too horrible to even try and fully comprehend on any real level. I know at a certain point, you start to feel as if you are going completely Mad. You keep hoping every time you close your eyes that you are going to wake up, and realize it's all been a ghastly dream. However, you wake up every morning to the same yawning chasm in your Heart. The same painful flood of thoughts and memories waits impatiently to unleash the unyielding tidal waves of agony that engulf you from one moment to the next. You cannot run away from it, you cannot turn it off, and without warning the most innocent of events can turn the dial up on the pain past rational thought. It shapes and remakes you into a shell of who you were before your precious Loved one vanished from sight. Then imagine realizing on top of the agony and fear for your missing loved one, that another family member is perhaps responsible for every millisecond of pain you are feeling. Imagine learning that the person you loved, was never who you thought they were inside. The thought at first is so ridiculous that you feel silly and ashamed for even thinking it. You defend, and make excuses to anyone who will listen. But there's always this little gnawing voice that says; "You know The Truth.." It takes a tremendous deal of Strength and Courage to allow that voice to get louder. It's much easier to squash those painful words and point fingers at anything and anyone else in order to keep the focus off the one you are protecting from reality and reason. The person of course that you are trying so desperately to protect is none other than yourself. Because admitting the Truth, and seeing the face of grotesque evil in the eyes and heart of your own flesh and blood is the last card to fall in the haphazard house of cards you've created to survive until that moment.
Not everyone is strong enough to face that maelstrom head on and still be able to come out swinging on the other side. Many people take one look at the churning black hole up ahead and run straight the other direction, falling even deeper into the false security of their "fantasy world" where things really aren't what they seem.
We Humans, are fragile, complicated, brilliantly clueless creatures. Our whole lives are a learning process, and even in Death we leave much of our growing incomplete. We are also creatures of habit. Take us out of our comfort zone and toss us headfirst into the lions den and we may just decide to lay down and let the lion eat us. Only belatedly realizing that perhaps there could have been another way to approach the situation.
I think George and Cindy have finally pried open the Lion's mouth, and are now starting to slowly climb out if it, one shaky foot at a time. It's a long and painful process. I hope they both have the Courage to stand tall against the lies, mind games and memories.
It's going to get much, much harder before it even begins to get easier. I feel in my heart that Baez is going to drag out every single salacious and juicy "fact"
that he and Casey can concoct to explain how she became a Child Murderer. The "unconditional love" that they feel for Casey will be stretched and pushed even farther past the breaking point in hundreds of ways both big and small. I hope they learn very soon that you can "Love" and still "Let Go" of toxic family members. The two things are not mutually exclusive of each other. No matter what though, for Caylee's sake I sincerely hope that the remaining "jail free" members of the Anthony Family find some sense of Hope and Healing in the birth of their new Grandchild. Part of me secretly hopes that there is more than a little bit of Caylee in this precious new life. They have a chance to write a happier ending for this Innocent, and I know there will be many, many things they will choose to do differently this time around. As bittersweet as it will be, a new baby is exactly what Cindy, George and Lee need to begin the healing process, and to refocus their attention on the things that really matter in this short life.
Nothing can remind us about the raw power of unconditional love quite like a newborn baby to love..
No matter what these people do deserve to heal and again feel the special love that only a grandchild can feel for their beloved grandparents.
Bittiness39
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2008
- Messages
- 2,009
- Reaction score
- 3
Not being a parent, I can imagine that there are (I apologize for the word) situations that would likely be the worse thing that a parent could go through: 1. Having a dying child who won't get better even with medical treatment 2. Having a child be killed (either accidentally or intentionally) 3. Having a missing child that may never be found 4. Having a child be a sociopath. Those are the worst things I can imagine.
1. My best friend from college brother has CML lukemia. He has had a bone marrow transplant. He is at 25% kidney capacity. He had his sperm frozen in case he does survive this mess that he and his wife can later have children. He is 6'3" and weighs 120 pounds. He can't leave his house. His parents are going through hell. His mother cries herself to sleep at night. She often has him at her house because his wife travels for work. He never complains. But she is a shell of the woman I have known for 17 years. Wrecked by the mere fact that she can't make it better for him.
2. A close friend of mine's sorority sister (we are in the same sorority, just different colleges) was murdered by Derrick Todd Lee (a serial killer). She was stabbed over 77 times, raped, and brutalized beyond anything I can imagine. She was raped while she lay dying. I was heavily involved in this case. I can only say that I met the parents of the other victims...and the pain they felt...at the time I met them, LE had not discerned whom the killer was...and he was still killing during that time. The grief, hopelessness and heartache just crushed me to witness.
3. I know no one personally who has experienced this...but the word, the awful word, closure is mentioned far too often for families of tragedies. However, there is a caveat, those who have some idea what happened to their loved ones and are able to bury them can at least stop looking. There are people still looking. They still have hope. And while the Elizabeth Smart story is beautiful and gives so many hope...the reality is that most cases of the missing won't end that way. So tonight, there are parents still up, still waiting, still wondering, still stuck in a void I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
4. Parents of sociopaths. I think Casey is one. Do I think she was made one or became one. I have no idea. I do understand that her BFF Ryan Paisley said from an early age she was a congenital liar. Like from the time she was 5 or something. Sure GA, LA, CA have issues. Don't we all? Up close imagine a microscope on your family and every decision you have made or your children since they hit puberty. Brutal. I am not condoning the A's or their inconsistencies. I think their denial about KC will ultimately kill them like pesticide does to a weed. KC is a cancer. I can only imagine what she has put that whole family through. Would I want to be her parents? Heck no. Do I sometimes want to shake them for not getting who she is and the fact that she is solely responsible for why we had a memorial service for Caylee today? Sure. But her parents have been through hell and back...and of the three other scenarios I mentioned...she, KC, is still alive and healthy (in the physical sense)...to want to trust in that foolish notion that she is good is all too tempting...but I still feel sorry for them nonetheless. But having said that, they are only killing a part of themselves each day to keep their belief in who they want her to be vs. who she really is a reality. So I hurt for them. There is no good road for them.
Unconditional means loving no matter what. I can understand the sentiment. I can understand where KC's parents are coming from...but (not to throw in a tiny laugh) it is like a bug flying into a bug zapper. No good can come from the love they lost in Caylee that they are now trying to throw like spaghetti on a wall at KC. No good. Because KC can't replace Caylee. And KC can't and won't be able to return their unconditional love in kind. And that is why I hurt for them. No amount of sorries, bandaids, love oaths, public declarations, money in her jail account, lying to LE is going to fix someone that broken. But it DOES NOT mean that I excuse all of their actions in relation to KC or the investigation.
1. My best friend from college brother has CML lukemia. He has had a bone marrow transplant. He is at 25% kidney capacity. He had his sperm frozen in case he does survive this mess that he and his wife can later have children. He is 6'3" and weighs 120 pounds. He can't leave his house. His parents are going through hell. His mother cries herself to sleep at night. She often has him at her house because his wife travels for work. He never complains. But she is a shell of the woman I have known for 17 years. Wrecked by the mere fact that she can't make it better for him.
2. A close friend of mine's sorority sister (we are in the same sorority, just different colleges) was murdered by Derrick Todd Lee (a serial killer). She was stabbed over 77 times, raped, and brutalized beyond anything I can imagine. She was raped while she lay dying. I was heavily involved in this case. I can only say that I met the parents of the other victims...and the pain they felt...at the time I met them, LE had not discerned whom the killer was...and he was still killing during that time. The grief, hopelessness and heartache just crushed me to witness.
3. I know no one personally who has experienced this...but the word, the awful word, closure is mentioned far too often for families of tragedies. However, there is a caveat, those who have some idea what happened to their loved ones and are able to bury them can at least stop looking. There are people still looking. They still have hope. And while the Elizabeth Smart story is beautiful and gives so many hope...the reality is that most cases of the missing won't end that way. So tonight, there are parents still up, still waiting, still wondering, still stuck in a void I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
4. Parents of sociopaths. I think Casey is one. Do I think she was made one or became one. I have no idea. I do understand that her BFF Ryan Paisley said from an early age she was a congenital liar. Like from the time she was 5 or something. Sure GA, LA, CA have issues. Don't we all? Up close imagine a microscope on your family and every decision you have made or your children since they hit puberty. Brutal. I am not condoning the A's or their inconsistencies. I think their denial about KC will ultimately kill them like pesticide does to a weed. KC is a cancer. I can only imagine what she has put that whole family through. Would I want to be her parents? Heck no. Do I sometimes want to shake them for not getting who she is and the fact that she is solely responsible for why we had a memorial service for Caylee today? Sure. But her parents have been through hell and back...and of the three other scenarios I mentioned...she, KC, is still alive and healthy (in the physical sense)...to want to trust in that foolish notion that she is good is all too tempting...but I still feel sorry for them nonetheless. But having said that, they are only killing a part of themselves each day to keep their belief in who they want her to be vs. who she really is a reality. So I hurt for them. There is no good road for them.
Unconditional means loving no matter what. I can understand the sentiment. I can understand where KC's parents are coming from...but (not to throw in a tiny laugh) it is like a bug flying into a bug zapper. No good can come from the love they lost in Caylee that they are now trying to throw like spaghetti on a wall at KC. No good. Because KC can't replace Caylee. And KC can't and won't be able to return their unconditional love in kind. And that is why I hurt for them. No amount of sorries, bandaids, love oaths, public declarations, money in her jail account, lying to LE is going to fix someone that broken. But it DOES NOT mean that I excuse all of their actions in relation to KC or the investigation.
elementary
No More Excuses
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 3,077
- Reaction score
- 1
I think unconditional love is highly overrated and highly misunderstood. To love someone without condition does not mean a laissez-faire attitude towards them. For the As "unconditional" means, "we place no conditions on you to take responsibility for your behaviour". That's not unconditional love- that's amoral/immoral permissiveness.
The As don't love the perp unconditionally, IMO. To spoil a child and cover up for a murderess is not love at all. It shows a basic lack of respect for human life.
And that's why Caylee is a mere footnote.
The As don't love the perp unconditionally, IMO. To spoil a child and cover up for a murderess is not love at all. It shows a basic lack of respect for human life.
And that's why Caylee is a mere footnote.
I have a lot of respect for George and Cindy. They love their children, no matter what. Doesn't mean they are not angry or have their doubts, but in the end, Casey will ALWAYS be their daughter. To me, that is what a parent should be.
Maybe it would have been different if Caylee would still be here, if they had to choose, but they don't. All they CAN do is love their daughter, let the courts decide her faith and honnor Caylee's memory.
They don't have to judge Casey, there is enough judgement out there to last a lifetime. And that adds to their instinct of protecting their child. If they were to turn their back on her, they would be no better than anyone who abandons their child, no matter how old she is.
All that doesn't mean they want Casey to come home or not to face the law. We don't know what is in their heart. They surely have questions, or doubts but they won't say it in public.
To me, they are being good human beings. They love their child, who can fault them for that ? It doesn't mean we have to agree with everything they did or didn't do, but just accept that we just don't know how we would feel in their shoes.
That's why I decided a long time ago to try not to judge. I have opinions, but I know that I don't know it all. And if I did, you could call me GOD !
JMO
Maybe it would have been different if Caylee would still be here, if they had to choose, but they don't. All they CAN do is love their daughter, let the courts decide her faith and honnor Caylee's memory.
They don't have to judge Casey, there is enough judgement out there to last a lifetime. And that adds to their instinct of protecting their child. If they were to turn their back on her, they would be no better than anyone who abandons their child, no matter how old she is.
All that doesn't mean they want Casey to come home or not to face the law. We don't know what is in their heart. They surely have questions, or doubts but they won't say it in public.
To me, they are being good human beings. They love their child, who can fault them for that ? It doesn't mean we have to agree with everything they did or didn't do, but just accept that we just don't know how we would feel in their shoes.
That's why I decided a long time ago to try not to judge. I have opinions, but I know that I don't know it all. And if I did, you could call me GOD !
JMO
My mom died almost 3 months ago, and I miss her every day. She was a wonderful mom, and a wonderful grandma to my daughter, her only grandchild. I was an only child (have a step-brother, but we weren't raised together), and I was a single mom. My mom did a whole lot for my girl when she was a little one, and continued to provide extras for her throughout her teen years.
One time I was teasing my mom and said that she loved my daughter more than me, because she was definitely more lenient with her and quicker to buy things for her and even to "plead her case" to me when there was a conflict. My mom laughed along with me, but wound up taking my face in her hands and turning me to look into her eyes as she said, "Just remember. You are my one and only, and no one will ever replace you in my heart." Those words which were sprung out of jest touched my heart deeply. I was secure in my mother's love, but the fact that she reassured me of that spoke volumes about the depth of love only a mother can feel.
I think this emotion is what Cindy is feeling. I don't think that she will ever reject KC for what she has done, and maybe her support of KC now is all that is holding her together. She knows that what is done, is done. There is no saving Caylee now. All she has to save is KC, and I think she would die hersef rather than forsake her only daughter.
One time I was teasing my mom and said that she loved my daughter more than me, because she was definitely more lenient with her and quicker to buy things for her and even to "plead her case" to me when there was a conflict. My mom laughed along with me, but wound up taking my face in her hands and turning me to look into her eyes as she said, "Just remember. You are my one and only, and no one will ever replace you in my heart." Those words which were sprung out of jest touched my heart deeply. I was secure in my mother's love, but the fact that she reassured me of that spoke volumes about the depth of love only a mother can feel.
I think this emotion is what Cindy is feeling. I don't think that she will ever reject KC for what she has done, and maybe her support of KC now is all that is holding her together. She knows that what is done, is done. There is no saving Caylee now. All she has to save is KC, and I think she would die hersef rather than forsake her only daughter.
Pattymarie
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 2,102
- Reaction score
- 0
What a beautiful mother you had. Thank you for sharing this and your insight.
Well, I can stretch my mind into possibly understanding spoiling a child, being more concerned about appearances than taking the time to give a child real love -- which equates to giving them the tools and guidance so they can have a chance to become actualized and functioning adults. I can maybe even understand refusing to believe they're guilty of anything. HOWEVER, I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams going on national television and lying, flat out lying, in your face lying -- or witholding evidence from the police, accusing innocent people of a hideous crime when all the evidence points to only one person or obstructing a search for a beloved baby. That's beyond the beyond. I don't expect parents to hate their children for wrongdoing. It's not up to me to give anyone a timeline for acknowledging the truth. Each in his own time. But...
I just keep going back to the fact that if not for Kronk we'd still be in the bizarre Caylee is alive world and seeing photos of little mall children plastered on the nightly news over and over again. And having to hear them scream that the SA and LE is on a witch hunt. Can you imagine if the body hadn't been found what kind of Orwellian PR blitz we'd still be under?
I just keep going back to the fact that if not for Kronk we'd still be in the bizarre Caylee is alive world and seeing photos of little mall children plastered on the nightly news over and over again. And having to hear them scream that the SA and LE is on a witch hunt. Can you imagine if the body hadn't been found what kind of Orwellian PR blitz we'd still be under?
debbie0604
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2008
- Messages
- 924
- Reaction score
- 1
I agree 100%. That's why my heart goes out to the A's.