A New Look at Intruder Theories

[coloradokares]

Dec 25 WAS chosen. The perps brought cord and tape that day, with the intention of kidnapping JBR and taking her away by car.

I believe this 'group' had the ability to have done it any day of the week, but they CHOSE Dec 25.

According to the reciept the item in question were purchased at McGuckins they were there not brought.

 

[sandraladeda]

And do you remember that the word "not" had to be inserted via one of these "v" after the fact? Therefore, the original train of thought was "do particularly like".


-Tea

I don't think you can make the connection of logic to say the person was going to say "we do particularly like you". Who would ever say it like that? It makes more sense that the writer likely did as we all do, made the mistake of skipping an intended word, noticed the error and inserted the word.

imho

 

[icedtea4me]

I don't think you can make the connection of logic to say the person was going to say "we do particularly like you". Who would ever say it like that? It makes more sense that the writer likely did as we all do, made the mistake of skipping an intended word, noticed the error and inserted the word.

imho

I hope my post from FFJ will be able to explain my observations regarding this sentence.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=82683&postcount=1


-Tea

 

[Chrishope]

Whatever else might be said about inserting the word not into the RN, to me it shows the note was written in haste. No time to do it over again.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Contrary to what RDI has claimed, there really aren't any clearly religious or medical references in the note at all. There are, however, several references that are clearly political. The expressions 'foreign faction' and 'not the country that it serves' aren't cancer related nor are they related to religion. They are purely political and thats all.

To extrapolate the known political references to the not so obvious expressions 'fat cats' and 'Victory!', you wind up with an RN that is politically charged, to the left.

The premise of a truthful RN, except for the ransom part, suggests a rich person.

According to FBI profiler, RN loaded with phrases with "revolutionary connotations that hark back to foreign powers", suggest a socialist.

A wealthy socialist.

 

[BBB167893]

Contrary to what RDI has claimed, there really aren't any clearly religious or medical references in the note at all.

I would agree with that, to a point. Clearly=overtly stated. True, but someone who knows what to look for might notice them.

There are, however, several references that are clearly political. The expressions 'foreign faction' and 'not the country that it serves' aren't cancer related nor are they related to religion. They are purely political and thats all.

I would agree with that as well, inasmuch as that's what a Middle American might expect terrorists to sund like. And incidentally, what foreign faction refers to itself as "small?" Wouldn't they want to make themselves seem mighty? And why did they refer to themselves as foreign? To them, WE'RE the foreigners.

To extrapolate the known political references to the not so obvious expressions 'fat cats' and 'Victory!', you wind up with an RN that is politically charged, to the left.

Like you said: extrapolate, as opposed to keeping it simple.

The premise of a truthful RN, except for the ransom part, suggests a rich person.

Like you said, you'd have to believe the ransom letter is truthful.

According to FBI profiler, RN loaded with phrases with "revolutionary connotations that hark back to foreign powers", suggest a socialist.

A wealthy socialist.

(Is there any other kind? Castro's swimming in loot.) But if you want to talk about what the profilers said, I'm your man.

 

[Chrishope]

The premise of a truthful RN, except for the ransom part, suggests a rich person.

The premise of a truthful RN, except for the part where the author is lying, is absurd.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The premise of a truthful RN, except for the ransom part, suggests a rich person.

The premise of a truthful RN, except for the part where the author is lying, is absurd.

In your mind it is, but it really isn't. There has been no evidence that directly contradicts a small foreign faction, who doesn't respect this country, and who doesn't like fat cats. There HAS been evidence to directly contradict ransom. Sexual assault totally contradicts it, JBR found in the basement certainly contradicts it. Probably contradicting it are asking 118K when JR could've afforded more, and the length of the RN. Kidnapper for ransom only needed a dozen or so cutout words.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

(Is there any other kind? Castro's swimming in loot.) But if you want to talk about what the profilers said, I'm your man.

You're kidding, right? A wealthy socialist is practically an oxymoron, but they're out there.

 

[BBB167893]

You're kidding, right? A wealthy socialist is practically an oxymoron, but they're out there.

No, I'm not kidding. Not that it matters to me.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

No, I'm not kidding. Not that it matters to me.

A wealthy socialist is an odd breed, in that they are self-contradicting (kind of like this crime). Maybe this snippets I found on the net will help:

"The immorality of socialsim is made even more remarkable when the incredible immoral hypocrisy of wealthy socialists is considered. Wealthy socialists fail to adhere to their own moral admonitions. If they were to follow their own moral imperative, then they would give up all their wealth to the poor."

or

"Americans, in general, hold a negative view of socialism, and for very good reason. The fundamental ideas of socialism are in direct conflict with everything that is American. America is founded on the principles of liberty, economic freedom and personal responsibility. The individual is the ultimate and most important unit of society. Socialism is based on the idea that individuals are only small, unimportant, disposable pieces of society, and rights and freedoms must be sacrificed for the common good. Property and wealth is viewed as subject to control by the community rather than the individual."

"We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves."

The only society in which a business like JR's would 'serve' a country exclusively, is in a socialistic society. A socialist sees all businesses as 'serving' the country. Companies like JR's in the US generally aren't thought of as 'serving' their country. Businesses 'serving countries' is a socialistic concept.

 

[DeeDee249]

I know there are wealthy socialists. Most of Hollywood and half of the Hamptons. But none of them wrote that note.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I know there are wealthy socialists. Most of Hollywood and half of the Hamptons. But none of them wrote that note.

What you're claiming to be wealthy socialists are really liberal democrats compared to these real wealthy socialists:

Pablo Escobar, a colossally wealthy socialist drug lord. This guy killed hundreds, maybe thousands of people, many many by himself.

Benazir Bhutto was a wealthy socialist before she was assassinated.

There are wealthy socialist countries, too: Iraq was a wealthy socialist country. France and Sweden are considered wealthy socialist countries.

Oh, look, another wealthy socialist: Che Guevara

"Hatred is an element of struggle; relentless hatred of the enemy that impels us over and beyond the natural limitations of man and transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy."

Yes, its a doctrine to justify killing. Was there a doctrine to justify killing in the RN? Yes.

"You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult"

Fact: Even before the JBR murder, "fat cat" was a derogatory expression used by socialists to describe rich businessmen. It was used in a derogatory manner in the RN, and JR is a rich businessman. More fact: "Victory!" is a revolutionary expression used by socialists, and was seen that way by FBI profiler.

 

[BBB167893]

And to think I was going to start naming them!

We seem to have gotten off the trolley here, folks. Somewhere we went from true crime to political philosophy. (Not that I don't agree with those quotes Holdon posted.) Granted, politics has its place in this case, but this wasn't quite what I had in mind.

Even more fact: "fat cat" was a common nickname for John Ramsey from Nedra and Don Paugh.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Thats just typical RDI glossing over what they can't handle:

The only place businesses 'serve' countries is in a socialistic society, therefore that expression could very likely be made by a socialist.

This isn't that complicated.

Now, extrapolating that to the revolutionary expression Victory! and the socialist's rich businessman label 'fat cat', and it becomes fairly evident that the author is probably a socialist.

 

[BBB167893]

Thats just typical RDI glossing over what they can't handle:

Would it be asking too much to keep this on an adult level? I mean, you're the one who keeps asking me to show you something from before the crime that ties into this. But every time I do, I'm dismissed.

The only place businesses 'serve' countries is in a socialistic society, therefore that expression could very likely be made by a socialist.

This isn't that complicated.

You're right: nothing about this case is complicated. I only wish I'd realized that before I did.

Now, extrapolating that to the revolutionary expression Victory! and the socialist's rich businessman label 'fat cat', and it becomes fairly evident that the author is probably a socialist.

I don't have to extrapolate. It's a lot easier to think that it was written by someone trying to write like they think a terrorist/guerilla writes than a real terrorist/guerilla, since it's full of conflicting motives and stuff a real terrorist/guerilla would not say. After all, it couldn't be too hard for a non-socialist to pick up some of that left-wing nonsense in Boulder. Heck, you could spit and chances are you'd hit one of them.

 

[Chrishope]

In your mind it is, but it really isn't. There has been no evidence that directly contradicts a small foreign faction, who doesn't respect this country, and who doesn't like fat cats. There HAS been evidence to directly contradict ransom. Sexual assault totally contradicts it, JBR found in the basement certainly contradicts it. Probably contradicting it are asking 118K when JR could've afforded more, and the length of the RN. Kidnapper for ransom only needed a dozen or so cutout words.

So they were truthful about being a SFF, but lied about everything else - that makes sense only if one is desperate to create and IDI scenario.

There is no evidence - besides taking at face value the statement "we are a small foreign faction" - that points to a SFF.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

So they were truthful about being a SFF, but lied about everything else - that makes sense only if one is desperate to create and IDI scenario.

There is no evidence - besides taking at face value the statement "we are a small foreign faction" - that points to a SFF.

I think you missed my point, again.

All you have to do is read the RN, and presume what can't be discounted as truth, for the sake of a new scenario. The only thing that I could discount was the ransom. The rest I could not discount. Since you're firmly RDI (as opposed to what your signature says), you'll simply discount the whole note. I'm not as confident as you because I have no 'reason' to discount the whole note. If I discounted the whole note, I would be doing so arbitrarily. I don't like arbitrary, its too irrational and senseless.

The new scenario says a wealthy socialist probably is the author. Did you gloss over, skip, and ignore my post about how only a socialist would refer to a business as 'serving a country'? Virtually nobody in a capitalist society think in terms of a business 'serving a country'.

 

[Chrishope]

I think you missed my point, again.

All you have to do is read the RN, and presume what can't be discounted as truth, for the sake of a new scenario. The only thing that I could discount was the ransom. The rest I could not discount. Since you're firmly RDI (as opposed to what your signature says), you'll simply discount the whole note. I'm not as confident as you because I have no 'reason' to discount the whole note. If I discounted the whole note, I would be doing so arbitrarily. I don't like arbitrary, its too irrational and senseless.

The new scenario says a wealthy socialist probably is the author. Did you gloss over, skip, and ignore my post about how only a socialist would refer to a business as 'serving a country'? Virtually nobody in a capitalist society think in terms of a business 'serving a country'.

No, I get the point. You can't call the whole note fake, because that makes IDI unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. This case is all about probability.

No, I didn't gloss over your wealthy socialist theory, I simply assigned it an extremely low probability.

The odds are, imo, that if much of the RN is a lie, the whole thing is very likely to be a lie.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I don't have to extrapolate. It's a lot easier to think that it was written by someone trying to write like they think a terrorist/guerilla writes than a real terrorist/guerilla, since it's full of conflicting motives and stuff a real terrorist/guerilla would not say. After all, it couldn't be too hard for a non-socialist to pick up some of that left-wing nonsense in Boulder. Heck, you could spit and chances are you'd hit one of them.

I'll take this to mean that at least you can see some possible left-wing verbage in the RN. Thats more than I can say for other RDI's around here.

In what type of society, SD, does a business 'serve' a country?