A new thought

midwest mama

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Entertaining the newest theory...

If this party thing was a regular occurrence or whatever, what could have happened that JBR was injured so gravely? Why would the participants damage their plaything so severely? If she were misbehaving or resisting, why would a blow to the head be the answer in a room full of adults?

Sad to say, head blows are accepted methods of control and punishment used by child sexual perpetrators, particularly by certain groups. It's a blow easy to camouflage by hair if it is done right. If you haven't looked into much information about pedo groups who use trainers or groomers you will have a hard time considering this aspect being part of a theory. Serious internet searching should turn up these groups: Illuminati, MKUltra, Monarch....all with subcultures that will take you through a nearly unbelievable realm of evil, and require quite a bit of time.
 

midwest mama

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He took the 90 minutes to figure out his next steps and he knew he had the time to write the note and stage everything. JMO

I have long been in the JDI camp. But in considering that JB might have been planned as a "special" offering for that Christmas to someone important known to the R'S, I can still see JR responsible for the strangulation. No choice if JB was beyond hope and they were given the charge of coming up with a way to make it look as though it all began in her home.

The really horrible aspect to this would be that JB was making clear that she was going to rat them all out, and that's why the blow was as hard as it was.
 

midwest mama

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I might have answered my own question, on another thread, about why her body wasn't taken out of the house. Because the R's had to make sure the crime looked totally as it all happened in their own home.

The challenge in considering a theory that asks us to look at this crime with JB being part of kiddie prostitution, is to try to see an aspect of the crime that cannot be connected to her having been out of the home when she received the head blow. If every aspect of the crime as we know it will allow for at least the head blow to have occurred outside the R home, then I think we should not discount the possibility. All MOO!
 

elannia

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I might have answered my own question, on another thread, about why her body wasn't taken out of the house. Because the R's had to make sure the crime looked totally as it all happened in their own home.

The challenge in considering a theory that asks us to look at this crime with JB being part of kiddie prostitution, is to try to see an aspect of the crime that cannot be connected to her having been out of the home when she received the head blow. If every aspect of the crime as we know it will allow for at least the head blow to have occurred outside the R home, then I think we should not discount the possibility. All MOO!

Say she received the head blow at this party. Then supposedly they dropped off gifts to the Walkers and the Stines(I believe SS said she seen JB asleep in the car) dont know the truth in that considering all she did for the Ramseys after the death but if she is telling the truth(burke said she was asleep too but walked in with patsy) so was JB really unconscious and SS thought she was asleep? Why did burke say JB woke up and walked in. It was a different story than his parent's. I mean 90 minutes went by and obviously they were doing something. Staging the scene? Hoping she would come to? If she were killed at another lication then maybe thats why the time frame. Driving home, dropping off gifts (havent heard anything about the Walkers testimony) but why wait so long for the strangulation. MOO
 

midwest mama

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Say she received the head blow at this party. Then supposedly they dropped off gifts to the Walkers and the Stines(I believe SS said she seen JB asleep in the car) dont know the truth in that considering all she did for the Ramseys after the death but if she is telling the truth(burke said she was asleep too but walked in with patsy) so was JB really unconscious and SS thought she was asleep? Why did burke say JB woke up and walked in. It was a different story than his parent's. I mean 90 minutes went by and obviously they were doing something. Staging the scene? Hoping she would come to? If she were killed at another lication then maybe thats why the time frame. Driving home, dropping off gifts (havent heard anything about the Walkers testimony) but why wait so long for the strangulation. MOO

In order to consider the theory of an out-of-home injury to JB on Christmas evening, we have to accept that most of what the R's supplied as information regarding their departure from the Whites, their trip home, and their arrival home, includes a lot of fabrication that would have had to be supported by those involved within it. IMO, the Stines would have been in on everything from the beginning. I am not familiar with much about the Walkers, either, so if anyone has more info about that, please share it. IMO, the time lapse between the bash and the strangulation provides a gap that might have given the R's the time needed to hatch the "kidnapping by a pedophile gone awry" plan.
 

elannia

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In order to consider the theory of an out-of-home injury to JB on Christmas evening, we have to accept that most of what the R's supplied as information regarding their departure from the Whites, their trip home, and their arrival home, includes a lot of fabrication that would have had to be supported by those involved within it. IMO, the Stines would have been in on everything from the beginning. I am not familiar with much about the Walkers, either, so if anyone has more info about that, please share it. IMO, the time lapse between the bash and the strangulation provides a gap that might have given the R's the time needed to hatch the "kidnapping by a pedophile gone awry" plan.

I agree. And that is a whole lotta stuff for them to fabricate. Im not too big on SS either. Im pretty positive she knew what was going on too. Im sure alot of people did. But what gets me is why the head bash then wait around and then strangle her later... if they were at their home when it all took place.
 

MzOpinion8d

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The thing is, all the reasons for cover up apply.

BR hit JB with the flashlight, for whatever reason.

PR discovers it.

PR panics, probably thinks JBR is dead already. Wakes JR.

JR realizes JBR isn't dead, knows it's hopeless, starts analyzing the situation. If they call authorities about this accident, lots of questions will be asked, and to what end? JBR can't be saved, she'll die or be a vegetable, and their lives will be ruined. He doesn't want to lose a 3rd child which is what would happen if it's known BR caused this injury. He doesn't want to lose his wife, his business, his reputation, his family or his friends.

PR doesn't want to lose her other child, her husband, their $$$, their friends, their status, their reputation.

They rationalize by thinking BR isn't a danger to anyone else, he was just a danger to JBR. They know she's already gone, dead or not. What good is calling authorities going to do? She can't be saved and they stand to lose EVERYTHING by calling for help. So...JR takes care of business as he always does. He protects BR, PR, his other children, the family, the money, the business, and the reputation, all by helping cover up the truth.
 

Chelly

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The thing is, all the reasons for cover up apply.

BR hit JB with the flashlight, for whatever reason.

PR discovers it.

PR panics, probably thinks JBR is dead already. Wakes JR.

JR realizes JBR isn't dead, knows it's hopeless, starts analyzing the situation. If they call authorities about this accident, lots of questions will be asked, and to what end? JBR can't be saved, she'll die or be a vegetable, and their lives will be ruined. He doesn't want to lose a 3rd child which is what would happen if it's known BR caused this injury. He doesn't want to lose his wife, his business, his reputation, his family or his friends.

PR doesn't want to lose her other child, her husband, their $$$, their friends, their status, their reputation.

They rationalize by thinking BR isn't a danger to anyone else, he was just a danger to JBR. They know she's already gone, dead or not. What good is calling authorities going to do? She can't be saved and they stand to lose EVERYTHING by calling for help. So...JR takes care of business as he always does. He protects BR, PR, his other children, the family, the money, the business, and the reputation, all by helping cover up the truth.

This theory is far more credible than assuming JBR was assaulted and killed at a wild sex party by a pedophile cult, then her body driven around Boulder while the R's delivered Christmas gifts.....Really?
 

elannia

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This theory is far more credible than assuming JBR was assaulted and killed at a wild sex party by a pedophile cult, then her body driven around Boulder while the R's delivered Christmas gifts.....Really?

Ha ha. Thats the thing here. WE are coming up with theories. And hey we dont even know if they delivered Christmas gifts. All this coming from the Ramseys lies along with everything else they lied about. MOO
 

Chelly

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Ha ha. Thats the thing here. WE are coming up with theories. And hey we dont even know if they delivered Christmas gifts. All this coming from the Ramseys lies along with everything else they lied about. MOO

When LE questioned the people to whom the R's delivered gifts, it was confirmed by all the family members that received these gifts that the gifts were indeed delivered Christmas night and the time verified. When you say "we don't even know if they delivered Christmas gifts" are you implying that everyone who received those gifts that night lied?
 

elannia

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When LE questioned the people to whom the R's delivered gifts, it was confirmed by all the family members that received these gifts that the gifts were indeed delivered Christmas night and the time verified. When you say "we don't even know if they delivered Christmas gifts" are you implying that everyone who received those gifts that night lied?

Well considering the only people they "delivered" gifts to were the Walkers and the Stines (this is from the R's mouth themselves) If you wanna look it up its in DOI and statements as well. And the way SS acted after the fact i wouldnt trust her at all. As far as the Walkers i have never read anything about them.So yep thats what im saying. Yes it is farfetched that she would be killed elsewhere and they would have drove to her friends home. I said that SS saw her asleep but IF she had the head bash at that time maybe thats whyvshe thought that. Not like they were latedollying around with her hurt in the backseat but what if there was areason for having to go by the Stines. I think they knew quite a bit. In my opinion only
 

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I have always thought it odd that when PR called all the friends to come to the house, the Stines were not called. Perhaps that is because they did know something........then there was the thought that perhaps DS was at the R 's that night, and was to go to MI with them. Was DS there, and he and BR were the ones who harmed JB? Did DS get sent home, or one of the parents picked him up, and is that why they weren't there that morning............because they already knew what had happened.

Previously JR had mentioned that they weren't such good friends with the Stines, but then they ended up staying at their house, and SS became their defending Pit Bull. Seems pretty strange to me.
 

elannia

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I have always thought it odd that when PR called all the friends to come to the house, the Stines were not called. Perhaps that is because they did know something........then there was the thought that perhaps DS was at the R 's that night, and was to go to MI with them. Was DS there, and he and BR were the ones who harmed JB? Did DS get sent home, or one of the parents picked him up, and is that why they weren't there that morning............because they already knew what had happened.

Previously JR had mentioned that they weren't such good friends with the Stines, but then they ended up staying at their house, and SS became their defending Pit Bull. Seems pretty strange to me.

I posted before about SS overhearing the boys(B and DS) about the strangulation? There is so many twists and turns in this case and I am just back and forth on each one. But yes I have seen posts about maybe DS was going to MI with them and this is why they stopped by the Stines(drop off gift... pick up DS.)
 

DeeDee249

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I was wondering myself what was going on in those 90 minutes after the head bash. Why would someone wait so long to strangle her.

We don't know for a FACT that 90 minutes elapsed between the head bash and strangulation. It COULD have been as little as 20 minutes- and as much as 90 minutes. There is no way to know for sure- even the coroner couldn't say for sure. The only thing we know for SURE is that she was alive for both of them. The mild swelling in the brain indicates she was alive for a little while, at least. And the petechiae as well as the color of the ligature furrows prove she was alive when the cord strangled her.
 

midwest mama

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I have always thought it odd that when PR called all the friends to come to the house, the Stines were not called. Perhaps that is because they did know something........then there was the thought that perhaps DS was at the R 's that night, and was to go to MI with them. Was DS there, and he and BR were the ones who harmed JB? Did DS get sent home, or one of the parents picked him up, and is that why they weren't there that morning............because they already knew what had happened.

Previously JR had mentioned that they weren't such good friends with the Stines, but then they ended up staying at their house, and SS became their defending Pit Bull. Seems pretty strange to me.

Why would people who weren't such good friends travel to NYC together as couples just prior to the holiday season? Yes, Stines and Ramseys.
 

Teresa

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I believe Patsy most likely hurt, head injury, JonBenet in a temper fit. Most likely over a bathroom accident.Pasty was most likely tired, had a little too much to drink, had too much to do with packing for the trip and was not up to an accident from JonBenet. I can see this as a recipe of a disaster. I agree on John strangling his daughter to protect himself. I think he was molesting JonBenet and knew he had to come up with a "sex" crime to cover his tracks. The police would look at him as a possible suspect in his daughters death and sexual molestation. I'm pretty sure he didn't realise how much an autopsy could tell someone. (1 over many sexual acts.) The general public knows much more about forensics nowadays than then. I agree two "killers".
 

midwest mama

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I believe Patsy most likely hurt, head injury, JonBenet in a temper fit. Most likely over a bathroom accident.Pasty was most likely tired, had a little too much to drink, had too much to do with packing for the trip and was not up to an accident from JonBenet. I can see this as a recipe of a disaster. I agree on John strangling his daughter to protect himself. I think he was molesting JonBenet and knew he had to come up with a "sex" crime to cover his tracks. The police would look at him as a possible suspect in his daughters death and sexual molestation. I'm pretty sure he didn't realise how much an autopsy could tell someone. (1 over many sexual acts.) The general public knows much more about forensics nowadays than then. I agree two "killers".

Plausible theory, accepting these two items:

The fibers tied into the strangulation ligature said to be from PR's jacket got there through transference. Not impossible since PR could have held JB closely after rendering her unconscious.

If PR was the note-writer, and she was not aware JR was adding the sexual attack to JB, it could account as to why the RN did not seem to be in keeping with a pedophile kidnapper. That would indicate PR would not not have had any knowledge of the degree of JB's prior sexual molestation. She may have been aware of the kids "playing doctor" and had tended to JB having related vaginal issues she assumed were due to that cause.

That said, it still puts the strangulation burden on JR, with the added measure of him knowing about genuine prior sexual molestation of JB, whether it was him or someone he knew was a perpetrator. JAR? At an earlier time, and that's why the bedding and book were stuffed into the suitcase JR said he moved into the basement?

This case is an albatross. :gaah:
 

DeDee

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My common sense tells me that if PR or BR were responsible for an "accidental" head blow and PR was unaware of the molestation of her daughter, then JB would have been taken to the hospital for immediate medical care. No way would she succumb to any one strangling her daughter to "finish her off" when there was even a small chance she might live. Look how long PR lived with a fatal Stage IV cancer diagnosis. She believed in miracles.

I do not recall the reward posters having a sociopath hot line listed:


coffmanposter.gif

http://www.jameson245.com/doc2usa.htm

moo moo moo
 

elannia

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My common sense tells me that if PR or BR were responsible for an "accidental" head blow and PR was unaware of the molestation of her daughter, then JB would have been taken to the hospital for immediate medical care. No way would she succumb to any one strangling her daughter to "finish her off" when there was even a small chance she might live. Look how long PR lived with a fatal Stage IV cancer diagnosis. She believed in miracles.

I do not recall the reward posters having a sociopath hot line listed:


View attachment 58171

http://www.jameson245.com/doc2usa.htm

moo moo moo

I think that too. I had posted before that if BR did it the only way she would have pulled that cord if IF she thought she was really dead. Friends (or maybe it was the housekeepers) had said how much thy respected their children. And JB was really clingy with Patsy all of a sudden. John was gone alot. Would he have the time for the molestation? Or someone else in the house? So maybe PR didnt know about the molestation up until those last few days. One may say she was her mother how could she not know? Maybe JB was good at hiding it, and maybe it was getting bad and thats when she became clingy with PR. Maybe patsy was starting to suspect it (the 3 phone calls to the pediatrician) But of course she would cover for BR. One more thing... If theire lawyers knew who did it (If it was BR) why didnt they let on he couldnt be convicted? Maybe fear of embarrassment to the family... But their reputation was ruined anyways. All MOO
 
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JBR may well have been killed in the Ramsey home. You can bet money there is an occult connection. I was rereading the evidence list over at ACR. There were two hair ties on JBR. a red, white, and black one, and a blue one. All 4 Illuminati colors. Google up images of JBR, and you will see this combination over and over. The Ramsey house was laid out Masonic style. Checkerboard tiles in the kitchen, and hallway. More I think about it, the head blow probably came in the kitchen, after the pineapple. I remember reading that the R's remodeled the house before they moved into it. No doubt that they picked the decor. I am also starting to believe some of their friends were involved. I believe that they had a go at JBR at the Christmas party where she said she didn't feel very pretty. To me, this case is screaming ritual sacrifice. As I discovered before, if they are killed on Christmas, it is called "Lighting the Last Bulb on the Christmas Tree." These are some really sick, twisted people.
 
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