A novelist's take on the Routier case.

Discussion in 'Darlie Routier' started by JimPence, Dec 25, 2004.

  1. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Looking at the Routier case from the perspective of a novelist, I have difficulty believing in Darlie's innocence

    For example, if I were to have written the Routier story as a novel (with an innocent Darlie and an intruder-murderer) and submitted it to a publisher, the story probably would have been rejected. In the world of fiction, your characters must always have reasonable and logical motives for their actions. If that isn't present, a publisher generally will reject or send the story back for a rewrite. The technical term in fiction is "verisimilitude," that is, creating a believable simulation of reality. Most editors would consider a Darlie-innocent plotline to be unbelievable.

    I make up stories for a living, and the intruder story sounds made up to me. For one thing, it has gone through too many "rewrites" (16 versions). For another, an intruder attacking two little boys in such a violent manner, while ignoring the healthy adults makes no sense. That kind of stabbing is a very up close and personal act and usually is connected with rage. No burglar, rapist, or even pedophile sexual predator with any sense of self-preservation (or desire to continue his illegal acts) is going to take the risk of doing what the so-called intruder did.

    Granted, life is not fiction, and rational people do irrational things all the time. However, I don't find Darlie's story believable. I've read most of the books (except MTJD, which I have, but have not had time to read, although I have reviewed the photos). I'm currently reading the trial transcripts. So far, I haven't seen anything to change my mind.

    Just the humble opinion of a fiction writer.

    Jim
     
  2. Loading...


  3. CW

    CW Former Member

    Messages:
    6,206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jim welcome to WebSleuths I enjoyed reading your post I agree with you I do not believe the intruder story one bit what type of books do you write fiction or non fiction?
     
  4. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi WindChime,

    Both, actually. But my first love is fiction.

    I've written 3 books on Web authoring for Osborne/McGraw-Hill, and I'm working on my 3rd novel right now. I write suspense/thriller fiction (with a touch of mystery). My current novel follows the trail of a serial mercy killer and is tentatively titled "Angel of Mercy." It will be released in the Spring of 2006 by Kregel Publications.

    Jim
     
  5. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I'm very new here; I haven't read any books yet. What are the books? I don't really think I should be posting (although I already have!) until I've done some reading. Thanks.
     
  6. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Nehemiah,

    The books I've read are:

    Precious Angels by Barbara Davis --While the book itself argued in favor of Darlie's guilt, the author later changed her position and now affirms Darlie's innocence.

    Hush Little Babies by Donald Davis --I found this one to be more objective than Precious Angels. The author doesn't offer a conclusion on Darlie's guilt, but does offer some strong opinions on the fairness of her trial.

    There is also:
    Flesh and Blood by Patricia Springer. --I haven't read this one 'cause I haven't found a cheap copy yet. For some reason, this one stays priced pretty high. Unfortunately, I still qualify as a "starving artist," and try to save money wherever I can. ;)

    Then there is:
    Media Tried, Justice Denied by Christopher Brown --This one is pro Darlie. Not particularly well written, but it includes over 200 pages of crime scene, autopsy, and evidence photos. Not pleasant. It's also difficult to find and can be high priced.

    There's also a good online article on (I think) www.crimelibrary.com

    Darlie's site has the transcripts: www.fordarlieroutier.org

    There's another site that I found out about here on WS, but I don't remember the URL. Any other resources that I've left out, fellow sleuthers?

    Hope this helps.

    Jim
     
  7. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

    Messages:
    3,521
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Welcome Jim. It's my understanding you do prison ministry so I believe you have great insight on criminals. It would be interesting to hear your experience on that without disclosing priviledge if possible.

    I'm on the fence with Darlie, have always been. Some things just didn't make sense to me. I'm more of the belief that Darin planned this and had others carry it out quite possibly. But that comes from not comprehending a rage so violent a mother grabs a knife and starts on one of her children.

    Having said that, isn't there a great many errors in the "Media Tried..." book? I haven't read it but I have heard a lot about it which made me question her guilt.

    One thing for certain, in this case, where there is ANY doubt whatsoever, even the slightest... I believe she should be taken off death row.
     
  8. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi blueclouds,

    Yes, I do prison ministry. I'm a dorm pastor at the Choice Moore Transfer Unit in Bonham, Texas. Each week, I go into a "pod" of 68 inmates to visit, talk, answer questions, and share Christ where I can. I also travel to some of the 100+ prison units in Texas and do gospel chalk artistry and music. I eat with the inmates in the chow hall each week (an interesting experience, to say the least), and mostly I listen to them.

    I guess that my most frequent reaction as I go into the units is "there but for the grace of God go I."

    As for the Darlie case, and Darin being involved in some way, I have two opinions. One, I don't think that Darin planned it, set it up, as in hiring a hit man or someone to fake a burglary, or personally took part in the killings. If there was any credible evidence to this effect at all, I think Darlie and her family would be screaming their heads off, trying to get the authorities to go after Darin.

    Two, I believe that Darin knows more than he's telling, and I believe he may be involved in some kind of cover up. Perhaps he came downstairs after the fact and saw what Darlie had done, decided he didn't want to lose her, and helped her stage the scene (perhaps placing the bloody sock?). The fact that he failed a lie detector test, although inadmissible in court, would indicate to me that something is not completely right somewhere.

    As for Media Tried, since I haven't read it yet, I can't address any errors of fact. I do know that the book was rather sloppily done, which certainly tends to undermine it's credibility. But I'll have to read it before I can legitimately compare it to the other material out there.

    Regarding the death penalty for Darlie, I agree with you. I lean toward a life sentence without any possibility of parole. However, I'm not sure that Texas law provides for such an option. I'll tell you one thing. After having been in numerous prisons, I can assure you that in most cases a LWP sentence would be worse than the death penalty. Contrary to public opinion, t's not a pleasant or cushy existence.

    Just my opinion.

    Jim
     
  9. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Jim, thank you for the information. I will try to find some of these books. I hesitate to get involved in another crime, as I have avidly read and followed the JonBenet Ramsey case for five years now--and I'm still on the fence with that one. Nevertheless, I'll refrain from posting much until I am more versed on Darlie's case.

    Neat about your prison ministry. Thanks for sharing. I look forward to reading more of your opinions.
     
  10. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

    Messages:
    26,902
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jim, I'm in complete agreement with your opinions. I too believe Darin knows a hell of a lot more than he's saying. Moreover, I believe that while he's had some shady dealings in the past, he didn't plan any murders. I don't think he had it in him. He didn't have the rage that Darlie had. About Media Tried, Justice Denied, you're not missing anything by not reading it. The only thing its good for are the pictures, and they say it all in my opinion!!


    We're glad to have you here!!
     
  11. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Jeana,

    Thanks. I'm glad to be here and looking forward to learning some more about the case.

    When (if?) I finish reading Media Tried, I'll post a review. I know one thing. Whoever did the actual publishing/printing did a crummy job. The copy that I received (from Mama Darlie on Ebay) has an entire section that was bound upside down! I know that's not the fault of the author, but it seems to reflect the overall quality of the production.

    One thing about the whole Darin involvement issue that puzzles me is why they are all remaining so loyal to each other. I remember reading that one of the conditions when they hired Mulder was that he not pursue any line of defense that might implicate Darin. Now, of course they've tried to use that as a point of appeal, saying that it hindered Darlie's defense. But it was their requirement in the first place. (Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.)

    I read an old news piece yesterday that pointed out that Darin failed the lie detector test three times. Sounds like he knows something, doesn't it? Could it be that Darin threatened to tell all he knows if there were any attempt to implicate him?

    Jim
     
  12. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

    Messages:
    26,902
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jim, I didn't hear about that third test! LOL Not surprised though. A lie is a lie no matter how many times you tell it! Those of us posting about the case back then knew it was just a matter of time before Darlie threw Darin under the bus. We thought they were pretty much just waiting to see how the appeals would go because we believed it would be a last ditch effort. However, the fact that she's hinted at him several times before, but never came right out and actually said anything leaves me to believe that he knows WAY more than I first thought. Perhaps there had been previous threats on Darlie's part against the boys before the night of the actual murders. Perhaps he was in deeper the night of the actual murders and for Darlie to say anything would seal her fate. Just speculation. Since her efforts to get a second trial seem hopeless at this point, she may go for the hail Mary pass still. Maybe receiving her first execution date will jar her into overdrive and she'll spill the beans on him in an effort to have her sentence commuted. Just thinking out loud. . . but I'd love to be a fly on the way if they ever get the chance to sit and talk it all out!!
     
  13. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

    Messages:
    26,902
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh and by the way Jim, I heard that the "author" of MTJD used to own a bar in Texas. I think he printed the books himself in the basement in the dark. What else could explain that drivel and shoddy workmanship???? ;)
     
  14. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Jeana,

    Here's a link to the article I found yesterday about Darin's 3 lie-detector failures.

    http://on.starblvd.net/cgi-bin/bbsmsg?savannah:media&tr=1

    It was one session, but they apparently gave him the test 3 times, and he failed it all three times. The piece carries an Associated Press dateline, so one would assume it to be accurate. However, it is a reproduction found on a Web site, so without tracing the piece all the way back to the source, you can't be absolutely sure of its authenticity.

    Just ask Dan Rather about the importance of checking sources. ;)

    Jim
     
  15. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

    Messages:
    26,902
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ahhhhh!!!! Savanah's board!! LOL I posted there as "DP." I was simply "DP" here, but the board was redone and they asked or more than three characters in our user names! Interesting comments on that site! I had forgotten about the results all being from one "sitting." We've got some posters here who think its possible for a false "guilty" of the person being examined is under stress or sitting there in one place for too long. Do you know anything about this?

    Have you checked out the "Guilty as Charged" forum? Extremely smart posters on that forum too!

    Here's a link:
    http://forums.delphiforums.com/guiltyascharged/start
     
  16. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe that a false guilty result is possible. I think that's one of the reasons that lie detector tests are not admissible in court. Since a lie detector test relies on things like blood pressure, pulse, respirations, etc., someone who tends to be a nervous person, or who reacts emotionally to just being asked certain questions, could fail a test when they are perfectly innocent. Part of the reason I believe this is that I am very much that kind of person.

    If I were to take a lie detector test, they could probably find me guilty of everything from the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa to the assassination of JFK. :behindbar

    However, knowing the way I tend to react to stress, I believe that after I got past the initial nervousness I would be able to take the test and pass. In other words, if they gave me three tests, I might fail the first one out of pure nervousness, but I would likely pass--or at least do better--on the subsequent tests.

    The fact that Darin failed three tests in one session would indicate to me that the test results are probably reliable in this case.

    Jim
    P.S. Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.
     
  17. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

    Messages:
    26,902
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting Jim! I was posting with Timex and Social Butterfly in the "Riley Fox" forum here and we were wondering whether the subject could mess up the test by telling the truth and then automatically think to themselves "I'm lying" or "that wasn't true" or something to that effect. I think we need to all get together and get strapped up and see what happens!! (Wait! I don't think that sounded exactly how I meant it!) :confused: :confused: ;)
     
  18. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There you go. Great idea! Now we just have to find a lie-detector test administrator who would be willing to travel and give us all free tests. :)

    There are ways to beat it. That's certain.

    I heard of one person who beat the test by putting a tack inside his shoe. When questions were asked, he would press his toe down on the tack and induce enough pain to cause the physical reactions. This, of course, skewed the results so that they couldn't determine anything.

    I've also heard that accomplished liars can beat the test because they have so deadened theirs conscience that a lie doesn't cause the normal guilt reaction.

    Jim
     
  19. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

    Messages:
    6,293
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Jim! from a fellow Texan.

    I've enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this case.

    There isn't a "life without parole" option in Texas. It's either death penalty or stacked life sentences--but even those can carry with them the option of parole. So only the D/P carries a certain outcome.

    As for Darin, it does seem obvious he knows something more than he's telling, doesn't it? Whether it's his actual involvement OR his knowledge/belief that Darlie is guilty--something more than just stress is behind those three failed L/D tests.

    I think some very, very good professional liars could fool the test, but I truly don't think Darin qualifies as one.
     
  20. JimPence

    JimPence New Member

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Texana,

    Thanks for the welcome, and for the clarification on Texas laws concerning the so-called "life" sentence. I didn't think that we had an LWP option, but wasn't sure. I know that I've never heard or read about one being given.

    I wish the Legislature would put through an amendment allowing for such a sentencing option. A few years ago, I was in Florida doing several chalk-art/music programs in one of their prisons. One of the programs I did was for a group of men who were "lifers" (LWP). I can promise you, I wouldn't want to be locked up in such a place for the rest of my life.

    I agree with you on the lie detector thing. I don't think that Darin has the savvy to beat one. I just hope the whole story comes out one of these days.

    Have a happy New year.

    Jim
     
  21. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

    Messages:
    6,293
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And a happy New Year to you as well--

    The LWOP legislature comes up frequently but never passes. I think Harris County is one of the places that lobbies pretty heavily against passing it.

    Kenneth McDuff pretty much killed the hopes of that, I think, along with the women he killed--He was first sentenced to death row, then taken off supposedly for life when the Supreme Court overruled the D/P. Somehow, it's never been proven exactly how he did it--but there's a corrupt smell about it--he was given parole. He went on to kill at least three more women and was executed about four years ago--give or take a year--he got the fast track after that to the lethal injection.

    It might not be fair, but I think that's the way the prosecutors view it, the D/P is a certain way to put away to the really bad guys, and I think they are the ones who lobby heavily against the LWOP penalty.

    Most of the ones who get the D/P in the courts in Harris County seem to be pretty egregious killers. It's not given often in our neighboring Fort Bend. Can't remember when it was last given--even the guy who strangled his pregnant girlfriend and then set it up to look like a suicide, was convicted only because he confessed after seeing the Passion movie--he was given a life sentence. Harris County is a tough venue, but then again, they have had some pretty notable and horrific killers.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice