A Question

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by mjak, May 2, 2006.

  1. mjak

    mjak Active Member

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    I am just going over some basic facts of this case in my head and
    realised I could not recall any information that Jonbenet was ever seen alive after the White's party. Does anyone have any information regarding this. I know the Ramseys made a few stops on the way home from the party to drop off gifts but I believe Jonbenet was said to be asleep in the back of the car.
    Is there any information where she was awake during one of thse stops or seen awake and alive after leaving the Whites party?

    mjak
     
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  3. Bev

    Bev New Member

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    Didn't Mrs. Stine (whose first name escapes me at the moment) say that PR came to the door with a gift(s) with Burke, and that's 'was the last time she saw an intact family"?
     
  4. mjak

    mjak Active Member

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    dose anyone know if the Stine's actually saw Jonbenet awake and outside of the car?

    mjak
     
  5. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    Your question really hit me!! A very good question!

    I don't have recollection of reading anything, after nine years, about anyone seeing JonBenet AFTER the Whites party.

    ????????????

    I seem to remember thinking at one time, that perhaps the children and the tutor could have left the party and gone to a movie, then went on home to the Ramseys house. Am I hallucinating???

    .
     
  6. mjak

    mjak Active Member

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    this thought process hit me like a ton of bricks today. As no time of death was ever established what is going thru my head is not out of the realm. Unless someone can led me to information that proves JB was seen alive, and awake after the Whites party.

    mjak
     
  7. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    So when did she eat the pineapple?
     
  8. mjak

    mjak Active Member

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    Okay this is totally conjecture on my part. Based solley on thoughts in my head. What if Jonbenet died at the Whites party. What if she ate the pineapple at the party. Pineapple was not served at the party but what if Patsy brought it for her and then left it on the table once they got home. jonbenet was found with a heard drawn on her hand and wearing two ponytails. one ponytail on the side one in the back. This reminds of the way little girls would do there hair when playing. Little girls would also write on each others hands. What if jonbenet died accidently while acting out the sexual abuse she had endured while playing with the whites daugher? Its not uncommon for young children to act out abuse in there play. This scenerio is very unlikley and I have a lot more running thru my head but this is part of it. Is this possible at all?

    mjak
     
  9. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    JonBenet was alive when she left the White home...no doubt about it. Remember that John suspected Priscilla and then Fleet was also a suspect. If they had killed JonBenet, then the Ramseys wouldn't mention their names to police.

    Patsy spent 10 minutes with the Fernies and she and Burke spent 15 minutes with the Stines. JonBenet had plenty of time to "zonk out". This is pretty typical of children JonBenet's age. She had been up since 6am and my belief is that she did fall asleep in the car.

    Only later when Patsy woke her at her usual time to use the potty did the trouble start.
     
  10. capps

    capps New Member

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    Quote by Toltec:
    "Only later when Patsy woke her at her usual time to use the potty..."

    Source please.
     
  11. mjak

    mjak Active Member

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    During the time she spent with the Fernies and the Stines did anyone see jonbenet awake and out of the car? If not its only the Ramseys words she was alive and asleep in the car. In all likleyhood she was but the fact remains her death is unsolved therefore, thinking ouside of the box is not a bad idea in my opinion. As far as the Ramseys mentioning there names to the police, I am sure the police allready had there names on a suspect list and it probably would have been more odd if the Ramseys didn't mention them.

    mjak
     
  12. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    It's in their book, DOI. I have a photographic memory and ask anyone here, I look for sources and post them. I might just do that at a later date but not now.
     
  13. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I don't recall Patsy (or John) saying in their book or elsewhere that they woke her up to go to the bathroom that night.

    Added: I think she said she liked to (or tried to) wake her up during the night but I don't recall she said she did that night. I used to try to remember to wake my bedwetters up too but I wasn't religious about it and if I was tired or busy (or they were particularly tired) I didn't bother.
     
  14. sharpar

    sharpar If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they

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    hhmmmmm MJAK :clap: :clap:

    I re read alot of the stuff on the visits after the Whites party and no one I found particularily says they saw JB asleep in the car.

    Doesnt mean they didnt .


    Anyone find anyone who does mention it ?
     
  15. solidarity

    solidarity New Member

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    Bourke made mention of her, but he probably doesn't count, as he could've been coached to say that.
     
  16. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    My only immediate memory of all of the books and things that I read, was that she was either in the car or asleep in the car.

    Nothing in my memory jumps out about either child accompanying mom to the doors of places they stopped AFTER Whites party. Most children probably would not have done so, UNLESS there was another friend of theirs living there that they might have had a little kid chat with too. imop.


    quoting "solidarity
    Bourke made mention of her, but he probably doesn't count, as he could've been coached to say that."


    solidarity, IF Burke was coached, then John was not, because I remember that what I read was that when Burke and John individually were asked HOW JonBenet went UP to bed upon arrival home that night, Burke said she walked UP and John said he had carried JonBenet UP the stairs.

    DOI as I recall made great issue of just HOW the sleeping JonBenet was prepped for bed 'that night'.


    SO, IF this thread 'A Question' has hit a special nerve here.

    After reading Sharon Rochas book about Laci, she gives great coverage to the special things Laci did as a small child.

    WE have none of that, that I remember in DOI. It was to me more of a slap some paint on it, and make it go away accounting.

    On the bead making at the Whites that night, when all were on the floor doing the bead kit thing. Surely JonBenet had participated in other fun things in her tiny life that MOM and or DAD could have recalled with HAPPY memories, huh, er was that the only thing? Someone who has read DOI more currently speak up if I err. Wouldn't it have been lovely if PR had spoken to JonBenets little friends and gotten some inside information about what they might have done with JonBenet that was fun, trips er just get to gethers or things like that?

    Hindsight has great visionary thoughts.

    My copy of DOI that Toltec graciously gave to me years ago, is somewhere in my garage in an unopened box of books from our move, I am working on getting things in order and will start searching for DOI, and RE READ it very carefully when I find it!

    .
     
  17. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    What I remember about the description of the bead-making from DOI is that it isn't described in reference to JonBenet and what she was doing, it was told as an anecdote as to how great JR and FW were as dads, grown men down on the floor making beads of paper.

    There was no mention of JonBenet's thoughts as to the bead kit, there was no recollection of how she might have enjoyed it or her telling of plans of jewelry she wanted to fashion from it.

    That would be what I would expect the parents to want to talk of - their daughter's last day on Earth (especially when it's Christmas Day) and how she spent her time, what her gifts were and how much pleasure she took in them. But not the Ramseys. It's far more important for them to use their soapbox to portray themselves as victims and picture-perfect parents rather than honor their daughter with cherished memories.
     
  18. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    ---->>>As a further hindsight view and thought. Sharon Rocha called her book 'For Laci'.

    As far as I know PR and JR have not followed through on any afterthoughts and remembrances of OR for JonBenet.

    THE question leaves a rather large space for wondering what really happened that night, and when did IT really happen?

    .
     
  19. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Patsy never said she woke JonBenet that night...I am saying that she says that the "norm" is that she would wake her around that time to take her to the potty. Don't you find it unusual that she did not wake JonBenet to use the potty Christmas night??? After all, this is what she normally does every night.
     
  20. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    When did they go out caroling? Was it before, or just after dinner that night?
     
  21. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I misunderstood your post. Haven't been able to find your "norm" statement in DOI yet. If bedwetting isn't a big issue I don't find it unusual she wouldn't bother to wake her that night. It had been a long day and they had to get up early. I wouldn't have bothered. But then bedwetting didn't bother me. I knew they would outgrow it eventually.

    Was that her current practice or something she'd done earlier. The interviews give the impression Patsy tried to make sure Jonbenet peed before she went to bed and the bedwetting was beginning to resolve itself.

    Off topic but does anyone know how often Burke went to the doctor in the previous three years?
     

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