A view from the fence

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by Maryam, May 3, 2009.

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  1. Maryam

    Maryam New Member

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    I have followed this case since the day after Madeleine disappeared, and I've followed it as close as I possibly could. I have two children who are exactly the age of Madeleine and the twins, and maybe that is why it grasped my attention more than any other case of child abduction.

    For a long time, I was convinced that Madeleine had an accident while being left alone in the apartment, and that her parents covered it up. Now, two years later, I have climbed the fence again, as I've had a lot of time to think the whole case through.

    If one of the McCanns had discovered that Madeleine is dead, and disposed of her that night, the Tapas 9 must know that the McCanns statements about what they've been doing that night was a lie.

    What made me change my mind is the fact that I just can't believe that all of the Tapas-friends would cover for the McCanns. The McCanns have a lot to lose if it turns out that they've put their children into a position where one of them tragically died. But on the other hand- so have their friends who were with them that evening. I just can't believe that all of the Tapas 9 would cover for the McCanns and possibly risk jail, and losing their children too. None of them could be sure that Madeleine wouldn't be found later, or that the police wouldn't be able to prove she died in the apartment. To me it looks as the Tapas 9 had even more to lose by lying than the McCanns. It's not as if they all had several days to think this through, and to make sure they've all had a plausible story and timeline to stick to. They' would have had few hours only, and I believe most of these hours would have been very chaotic.

    It also seems strange that none of them has ever come forward with their knowledge and that all of them have kept their secrets without ever spilling anything.

    I find it also unlikely that someone would be able to dispose of a body in a country they don't know, without it being found later.

    That's my 2cents, pardon my poor English. I hope to see your view of my aspect.
     
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  3. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    I am not sure all the tapas gang DID know about it. I do think possibly David Payne did..and i also think that OBrien and Tanner did. I dont believe Fionas mother knew..and i dont think the Oldfields did - indeed i think Oldfield was originally meant to been the one to find Madeleine missing but of course he didnt actually go into view her as he should have done.

    And also if she died..it would depend WHEN...i understand there are some doubts about the creche records..and if thats true...who knows when she was last seen? Possibly when Mrs Fenn heard her crying for all that time :( That would in fact have given them quite a bit more time to plan it.

    As for why would the friends risk it..to be honest it would depend on how she died...say something was found that could get them in trouble..then yes i can see why they would risk it.

    Btw the bit about not being able to hide a body and it not being found...in a country like Portugal..within a frw weeks she would just have been bones...and not many of them so not exactly easy to find ;(
     
  4. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    I don't believe all of the Tapas diners were involved. In fact, I think that several were left out for that very reason--need to know.

    One possible explanation for the others being willing to go along is if they knew that the McCanns had given the children some kind of sedative--or if one of them had given any of the children a sedative. If they had knowledge of what the McCanns were doing, they were also in a position to lose their jobs in any kind of bad publicity or even criminal charges.
     
  5. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    Tex do you remember which of the Drs it was that Gerry was helping with a malpractice suit or something? That could be a reason for them to help Gerry if they thought he was helping to save their career.
     
  6. april4sky

    april4sky It is not who is right, but what is right, that is

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    Great post Maryam and your English is excellent. :)

    IMO when you strip away all the misinformation and smears against the McCanns it's very clear they didn't do anything other that what they themselves told the PJ from day one.

    And it's not just their friends who have been accused of covering for the McCanns but almost everyone who has come in contact with and supports them - this has made the conspricy theories sound ever more ridiculous by the day.
     
  7. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    Of course it could be said by a lot of people..when you read all the statements and the differing versions...nothing the McCanns and there friends say make a scrap of sense and therefore isnt likely to be true.

    Btw what the McCanns said on day one is different to what they said later on...so go and figure.

    Personally..i find it ridiculous...that with everything that comes out that some people still believe the McCanns version...and i find it totally incomprehensible that anyone could believe Tanner with her many many versions.

    What i find even stranger..that these 2 ex cops that are now searching on behalf of the McCanns are saying hey we looked through the files and another witness is backing up Tanners version and say the clothes were the same - well duh....its not new about the Smith family..just that the McCanns only wanted to go by Tanners version...IMO cause Smith thinks it was probably Gerry he saw that night...
     
  8. Maryam

    Maryam New Member

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    I have never believed that the McCanns have had any plans to murder Madeleine. The only scenario I ever believed in was of there being an accident, most likely when the McCanns were out dining.

    This must have come as a huge shock to them. I'm sure they would have been shocked, terrified, scared and grieving for their daughter. I don't think they would have been able to keep the cool and act just as nothing had happened.

    I know that they are doctors, and much more used to controlling their emotion than "regular folks", but they aren't robots. And their friends know them well enough to know when they're not acting normally. None of them have reported any change in the McCanns behaviour. Neither have other people who've talked to them this evening.



    There is no proof for any of this.

    Any normal person (and these people were highly educated, probably knowing quite a bit about law too) would understand that there is a HUGE difference in punishment for leaving your kinds unattended (sedated) and covering up for murder or giving wrong information to the police. These two things are not even comparable. One thing gets you in quite some trouble, the other thing would mean that all hell breaks loose if it would ever get public. If they were afraid of losing their children, they would know that they're in much greater risk of losing them if they help the McCanns.

    Remember: There was no guarantee whatsoever that the McCanns wouldn't break down and confess, or that the body wouldn't be found.

    I don't say it's impossible, I just think it's difficult. It's not just like you could throw it anywhere you want just because it's in Portugal. I've been there myself, and there is cars, traffic, tourist renting cars to watch the landscape and scenery, and so on.

    Last but not least:

    One thing I've always found funny about the whole crime was that noone knowing the McCanns personally have stepped forward and talked negatively about them. I find this highly unusual. The McCanns had a very large circle of acquaintances and a lot of people know who they are. The children went to kindergarten and probably to kids birthday parties and other activities. Yet no one, not friends, ex-patients or loose acquaintances have had anything negative to say about their parenting or other issues concerning their personalities. Obviously, they've never had any reputation as cold, controlling, ill-tempered people.

    In many other cases (ex. the JonBenet Ramsey case) friends collegues and even family turn their back on the parents and often turn to the press and the media, talking about what they believe happened. I find that very interesting.
     
  9. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    I dont know how to do the multi quote thing sorry
     
  10. scandi

    scandi New Member

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    How true Texana.

    Maryam, thanks for your OP. The exception could be great enough to where it could reflect on many of them and ruin their future lives if it became known. Some things done in England are very casual. Other things are done in an absolutely prim and proper manner. A unique combo.

    * I think all except the Payne's sedated their children on that holiday.
    * I think Madeleine's body, if autopsied, might show signs of continual sexual abuse and overly stern discipline.

    A possible abuser in the group, they were said to be 'very close' and so into each other that these friendships were above and beyond the normal everyday scenario of friendship. The men always walked together, the women separately. I have felt for a long time there was something a bit more than kinky behind that whole vacation, a resort that offered child-free areas, the professional seductive photos taken of Madeleine, etc plus everything else we learned in the case that applies!

    It could be what several said in the very beginning, that when the truth comes out we will fall over in disbelief!


    I hope this doesn't upset anyone, for if it does I'll delete it. I think it could be an answer to your OP Maryam. IMO xox
     
  11. april4sky

    april4sky It is not who is right, but what is right, that is

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    Not true Isabella.
    It's not incomprehensible if you don't buy into smears. :)
    They may be ex-cops but they are not disgraced ex-cops like Amaral.
     
  12. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    Funny thing about the people who criticise Amaral. They say hes dfisgraced etc and yet...the people who can shut him up decide not to. We hear mad blusterings from Mitchell regarding the book " our lawyers will be reading the book very closely and ifs its libel we will sue". Hmm...so why didnt they? Are we to infer from Mitchells words then that the boo k is true? Following on from THAT..Amaral is saying some very potentially libellous and damaging things about Payne...again..hes quick enough to sue the Express but...Amaral and all the paedophile allegations..hes not. Weird. At the weekend Amaral said that Tanners sighting is hogwash and that he can prove it..and if she doesnt like being called a liar...she can sue him and he will prove he knows why its a lie...how many want to bet she will never sue him? And then theres the McCanns themelves. All the time while Amaral is making these allegations about the party...across the world no less..NONE of them dare face up to him. And now we have Mitchell saying if any British tv station show Amarals documentary he will sue them...which is funny when the McCanns have already been told once they should go through the press complaints commitee and not sue people. Incidentally after Amarals documentary they changed THEIR documentary lol..why if they was telling the truth to start with?

    Sorry but Amaral is running right across the Tapas gang..and IF there innocent as they claim..they should be trying to shut him up..which they wont do as they then have to go in a court room with him.

    I wonder just what it there so afraid Amaral will come out with in court that there willing to keep having all the crap said about them.
     
  13. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    Why would you delete it? Your only stating things that have come about this case. A cop close to the case at the beginning of this ( and not Amaral) claimed the McCanns and there friends were swingers. I also saw a profile on a site (someone linked to on a another site and no not 3a) that could well have been the McCanns and that was for that kind of thing.

    I read at the weekend..that whatever these people were doing at the time of the "disappearance" is supposedly the reason none of the friends are saying what happened which to me could be a couple of things really..or both even i guess.
     
  14. scandi

    scandi New Member

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    Hi Isabella, The offer to delete was made because on this forum it seems posters are mostly at either end of the pole and they don't often meet in the middle to center on Madeleine. I want a productive discussion but also to put out my thoughts, based on like you say, all the info we have gleaned so far in the case.

    For instance I have often thought if Madeleine were to reappear, would she be replaced with her natal family or even want to be with her parents after being so neglected as to have her fall into harms way. Of course she would as she is only 6 now, but if she were older I don't think she would.

    I so agree with your last statement Isabella. Yesterday I read a post at 3A's from a brand newbie, and he said there is nothing important here on this thread. Go back to the scene of the crime and you will uncover the truth.

    Such wise words IMO, and it is how most COLD CASES are solved. What was happening at the time she disappeared is at the crux of the case IMO.


    XOX
     
  15. rmmbr_Cara

    rmmbr_Cara New Member

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    Hi Maryam. I am the reverse of you. I started out thinking that Madeleine had been kidnapped and her parents were innocent. But the more I listened to people talk about this case, the more I read and I had to change my mind. I don't know if she had an accident and died or if her parents drugged her and caused her to pass out and hit her head. I am convinced the McCanns know what happened to their little girl and some of their friends know too.
     
  16. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    I am in the same boat...i too thought she had been kidnapped and was in fact asked if i was a paid poster for the McCanns ( that seems funny now lol) but...when i realised there was other ways of getting info on the case other than from the British media..and saw the excellent video by Spudgun i soon changed my mind.
     
  17. Claycat

    Claycat Inactive

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    Maryam, I haven't ever thought the McCanns killed Madeleine, either accidentally or otherwise. I do believe they were neglectful, because it is never good to leave children alone. However, I imagine they have mentally kicked themselves from day one.

    In fact, I believe Madeleine is still alive. Of course, that may be wishful thinking, but I hope I'm right!

    This is my own opinion, to which I am entitled.
     
  18. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    I am curious..whats your explanation..if the parents are innocent for them to be distributing pictures of a guy..that looks NOTHING like the witness reports it to be like and say this guy could be the kidnapper when the said person has already been named and eliminated from the inquiry? Why would innocent parents do that?

    Secondly why would they lie about the Smith sighting? Why in fact would they lie about ANYTHING if they was innocent?
     
  19. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    But they don't seem to be, by any of their many interviews and published words, kicking themselves for that. They say that if they had to do it again, they would do exactly the same thing. Kate said that the one thing that kept her going was knowing that they were "responsible parents."

    So no matter what we wish or think they would feel, the McCanns' words are just the opposite.
     
  20. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    And why did the McCanns tell all these lies about the window (broken shutters, etc.) when it turned out it had not been tampered with in any way? No one went in or out of that window, and the only fingerprint found was Kate's on the inside and was placed in a position where someone would open it.
    Of courseit could also have gotten there from opening the window at some time during the holiday stay, but Kate could as well have opened it after "discovering" Madeleine missing, to stage an intruder entry.

    I'm (still) a fence sitter as to whether the parents were involved in their child's disappearance, but such contradictions bother me. Something is just not right there.
     
  21. Isabella

    Isabella Thank you! Justice for Meredith!

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    Rash ofc it could have got there during the holiday..but on the other hand its strange only one finger print was on that window. During the week you would also have thought Gerry or one of the kids may have touched it..which leads me to think the window was actually cleaned that night for some reason.
     
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