Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

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For my last and final black and white understanding on this "late discovery"... The case begins with the evidence they have on RA. Early in the D learns about the Odinist theory and then want ALL discovery so they can investigate their angle. It takes forever for this to be given to them but they do get it. They complain about the massive amount of it and poor organization. Is this not the State's work product?
Is the argument that they didn't get all of this "discovery" aka background work and therefore the State was withholding exculpatory evidence? I feel the delays came in when asking for all of this information. Would it be normal in a case for the State to give the Defense the entire Orion database as part of discovery? Or just the entries that apply to the defendant?
 
Could you elaborate on the gas station stashed phone thing? I'm not sure what that means.....why would it be stashed at a gas station? Who stashed it in this theory?

Thanks!
IMO MOO
Any mutually agreed upon location will do, keeping in mind that KAK might not personally know the people who access his drop box. They might communicate with one another with aliases. So KAK might leave a phone set to tracking anfmd the other user picks it up. They never actually make contact with each other.

Why do I think this? Because of the phone LE knew LAK had that he didn't produce, only it surfaced as if by magic in his kitchen, conveniently factory reset. Why? Who had it in the meantime? Goes together with a pass off prior to the murders.

JMO
 
Any mutually agreed upon location will do, keeping in mind that KAK might not personally know the people who access his drop box. They might communicate with one another with aliases. So KAK might leave a phone set to tracking anfmd the other user picks it up. They never actually make contact with each other.

Why do I think this? Because of the phone LE knew LAK had that he didn't produce, only it surfaced as if by magic in his kitchen, conveniently factory reset. Why? Who had it in the meantime? Goes together with a pass off prior to the murders.

JMO

<modsnip: rumors> But how would they get a tracker on LIbby's phone to connected with the "Dropbox" phone?

IMO MOO
 
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I get this but not really how I'm trying to simplify for my brain. I understand IF there was something exculpatory it should be turned over. Moreso asking since nothing in those reports are exculpatory why would this be part of discovery?
When a cold case goes to trial... are they giving the defense teams 30 years of evidence showing all those who were investigated? Not talking a suspect but someone who was deemed "cleared".
 
Yes the fact the name is wrong sums up how much value I put into this. It’s laughable!!
Actually, Ron Wilkins a good and fair reporter. IMO, it's pretty impressive that IndyStar ran his article.

Sometimes reporters make mistakes. They count on their editors to catch any that slip by.
He apparently made one, caught it and fixed it.
 
bbm
If RA walked the trails often (I didn't know until now), I think, that area was completely to his special taste (and I don't mean "nature" or "wildlife"): a hang-out-spot/party-spot for young people!!, various meeting points for grown men with secret activities, some "trail controllers" like RL may have been acquaintances. Someone, who likes to spend time out there, probably wants to watch others do what they do or take part in the activity themselves.
Of course, there are dogwalkers, who do not have this intention. Maybe, they are using different trails and/or stay there for less time.
RA wasn't a dogwalker afaik; he walked his useful, indispensable cellphone only.
I very well can imagine RA as a super-curious observer of all the people, who were constantly there at different times. Certainly he had knowledge of a lot of not quite kosher activities, and maybe, he used his knowledge or people knew, he would be able to use his knowledge. Add to this knowledge his intimate insight into people's private things via his job as a CVS pharmacy technician, and you have an Delphi insider at its finest, inclusive his geographical knowledge of the MHB area due to his frequent visits.
MOO
Your comment reminded me too of early LE interviews where it was mentioned that suspect was likely from Delphi or currently lived there because they knew the terrain where Libby and Abby so well. IIRC, locals mentioned terrain is not easy to get to and requires a horse or walking to reach. It was also mentioned that no one would really have a reason to go to that site but it was within an area where possible deer hunting took place. I remember thinking that info could be really helpful because possibly only a particular set of people, or more specifically hunters, would even know of that location and feel comfortable hiking it. Of course this was only speculation at the time based on my own experience because I am not aware personally of all the hunting areas (or what in particular is being hunting) in my own local parks.

I also used to think that even though I agree with Doug Carter that BG’s gait across the bridge looked a bit altered he still seemed far more comfortable or balanced than I would be crossing it myself since I am not used to it. This did also further make me think this was a local who visited the park and the bridge frequently like you mentioned too. Just my own IMO though.



 
Not so patiently waiting for the trial to begin. ;) This is exactly how I feel. My hope is that everyone and anyone involved is accounted for. The girls were out walking, gets me so angry. Just thinking about what LE has released thus far, it stands out to me that the end goal was nude pictures. IMO
There is a lot of evidence screaming that this case would in a better world have been linked to that of the Anthony Shots *censored* ring. There are likely aiders and abettors of this crime out there whom this case’s P is thus far studiously ignoring, at least officially.
 
I get this but not really how I'm trying to simplify for my brain. I understand IF there was something exculpatory it should be turned over. Moreso asking since nothing in those reports are exculpatory why would this be part of discovery?
When a cold case goes to trial... are they giving the defense teams 30 years of evidence showing all those who were investigated? Not talking a suspect but someone who was deemed "cleared".
I would especially want the files on those deemed cleared if I was defense. Surely you don't want the state to be the arbiter of what is and isn't exculpatory?
 
Good theory! But how would he have gotten the phone to Libby? Kelsi said they made no stops from home to the trails IIRC. However, there is a ten minute discrepancy so maybe they did stop somewhere, like the Marathon gas station?

IMO MOO
Easy.

Libby thought Anthony was real. Thought be lived far away. Probably thought he had people, an entourage. Right about the time Libby reset her phone (I think at "Anthony's" direction), KAK could have crafted a story, like Anthony wanted her to have a fancier phone, camera.... and left one for her anywhere. Close to school, for example. A secret batline to Anthony phone. Online groomers get GROWN ADULTS to wire cash, buy gift cards, refinance their homes under the illusion of romance. Convincing a fourteen year old girl that her online boyfriend bought her a phone, not hard.

It is my theory that Libby had two phones that day. Her grandmother's and a gift phone her family didn't know about. Pure speculation. But I believe too that that phone walked off with RA... and would have been one of the unmatched phone numbers, within the crime scene.

JMO
 
I get this but not really how I'm trying to simplify for my brain. I understand IF there was something exculpatory it should be turned over. Moreso asking since nothing in those reports are exculpatory why would this be part of discovery?
When a cold case goes to trial... are they giving the defense teams 30 years of evidence showing all those who were investigated? Not talking a suspect but someone who was deemed "cleared".

But who decides if it's exculpatory? Shouldn't ALL information related to the case be turned over? I'm asking because I don't know.
 
Please continue the discussion on Thread #182.

 
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