Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm simply saying the information was misleading.
RSBM

Thought about it & couldn’t the exact same information be presented (as it was in trial) in reverse order & have a completely different effect? It’s all in how it’s presented & worded. Directing the narrative. Now I see why so many content creators who happen to be lawyers are jumping on the bandwagon.

You trial lawyers are slick little weasels LOL (completely kidding), I’ll stop.

I’ve noticed how some questions are directed such that it’s almost forcing a yes or no sort of response. Sly. Doesn’t give a witness the chance to mess up the gameplan, so to speak, so there are no surprises introduced via their testimony, no?

I wouldn’t make a good witness under cross - where words are being put into my mouth. I’ve seen that quite a bit or subtle attempts at it at various times.

The one that really stuck out was Baldwin slamming down hundreds of pages of interview records & telling Mullin to find a specific answer. I’d have kindly handed it back & asked if he had a paralegal to bookmark his evidence. Probably wouldn’t have gone over too well.

JMO

ETA clarity via formatting
 
Last edited:
Theatrical is a very diplomatic way of putting it imo. As an older sister to a younger sister myself I was particularly aghast at the defense essentially suggesting Kelsi German had something to do with her little sister's murder when they made a huge deal about her hair being found in Abby's hand... despite the fact that Abby had just come from Kelsi's car, had spent the night at the German/Patty house, was literally wearing Libby's sweatshirt (stored/laundered/etc with Kelsi's clothes) when she died. That was a really dirty move against a grieving young woman who has remained incredibly strong while suffering a horrific loss, all for a little shock factor that they KNEW would have absolutely no payoff. My personal opinion of course. (Also.. Go Dodgers! Sorry ;) Volpe was amazing these past two nights though even with tonight's error)
One in a long line of dirty moves, MO. I hope the jury caught that.

My Yanks were on fire two night ago! Not to be this year </3
 
So today clears up where RA got the info. Discovery plus a nosy doc. White van goes all the way back to when BW was investigated. Why did he change his timeline last minute and that rhymes with the ME changing his findings last minute with a “”sudden revelation”” Super interested in what’s behind the subpoena AB slapped on BW. Last minute of states case and defense has shown it has a lot of cards up its sleeves. Going to be a very exciting case in chief for the defense. Right now I’d say it’s a quarter resting on its edge and defense has yet to blow.what do they have in their lungs? Seems like a lot but we also thought the P had something, anything, more than the timeline drain we’ve been circling for two years. What a wild case.

How so? What changed in his timeline as am not clear on that point.

Did the Discovery really hold information about the white van and BW.

If anyone has any idea about this it would be great to know.

JMO MOO JMT

Edited: To abbreviate name.
 
Last edited:
So today clears up where RA got the info. Discovery plus a nosy doc. White van goes all the way back to when BW was investigated. Why did he change his timeline last minute and that rhymes with the ME changing his findings last minute with a “”sudden revelation”” Super interested in what’s behind the subpoena AB slapped on BW. Last minute of states case and defense has shown it has a lot of cards up its sleeves. Going to be a very exciting case in chief for the defense. Right now I’d say it’s a quarter resting on its edge and defense has yet to blow.what do they have in their lungs? Seems like a lot but we also thought the P had something, anything, more than the timeline drain we’ve been circling for two years. What a wild case.

We know he had access to some of the discovery, but we do not know if he had access to all of the discovery.

Over the past couple of days we've learned he murdered the girls with a boxcutter, and dumped it in the CVS dumpster.

That he intended to rape the girls, but ultimately did not.

That he slit their "necks", and waited until they were dead.

That he went to his parent's house, decided not to have lunch with them, bought a six pack, drank three, and went to the bridge. None of that is in discovery.

This wasn't a case where a medical examiner changed his ruling, which we've seen a million times on here (suicide to homicide, accident to homicide). He simply said that a boxcutter could have made those slash marks. It's either possible or it isn't, and the description of the wounds makes it way more probable than not in my mind that it was a boxcutter.

Tomorrow the jury will hear confessions from Allen's own mouth; two hours of them. That will be compelling stuff for sure.

One man said he was there at the time in question. A camera catches a very similar car to his at this time in question.
One man said he was dressed in the same clothing as BG. Witnesses saw him there, and he saw some of the witnesses. He was fish watching (as one does), while checking his stock ticker on a phone that couldn't possibly have been turned on. An unspent round matching his gun was found at the scene.

The prosecution has the evidence, and it is compelling. All the defense can do is try and refute that evidence. I don't know in what universe the defense is on the precipice of winning here.
 
How so? What changed in his timeline as am not clear on that point.

Did the Discovery really hold information about the white van and Brad Weber.

If anyone has any idea about this it would be great to know.

JMO MOO JMT
3:30 to 2:30

Of course. Discovery revolves around the case not just RA. He at that point was essentially caught up with the biggest boxed wine collector.

Ps you’re not supposed to use full names. Just fyi.

MOO
-CLUCK
 
I think I finally understand the clothes. Some clothes were found on the bridge side (S) of the creek, others were found on the cemetery side (N).

That means that the girls had already removed some of their clothing before crossing the creek. They dropped or lost some clothes in the creek - including Abby's inside-out jeans. Libby lost a shoe while crossing the creek. Underwear, socks ... in the creek? Then the girls went up the hill towards the cemetery - without all of their clothes.

Were they assaulted before they crossed the creek (2:13-2:27)? What happened during the hour that RA was with the girls in the ravine (2:32-3:30)?

Now I understand what RA means about being interrupted. The girls were partially or completely undressed before they crossed the creek. They crossed the creek sooner than RA intended because the white van drove down the nearby driveway. The sexual assault was interrupted, but not ended.

... just an opinion based on time lines and clothes
 
The new poll is up.
Here are the results of the polls in the past few days.
Nothing seems to be really changing anyone's mind yet.

CLICK HERE TO TAKE THE NEW WEBSLEUTHS DELPHI POLL
At the end of court on 10/30 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 80.2%
Guilty but had help 0.0%
Not Guilty 9.1%
I don't know 10.7%

At the end of court on 10/29 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 63.4%
Guilty but had help 1.4%
Not Guilty 15.5%
I don't know 19.7%

At the end of court on 10/28 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 60.5%
Guilty but had help 2.3%
Not Guilty 12.8%
I don't know 24.4%

At the end of court on 10/26 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 69.6
Guilty but had help 3.2%
Not Guilty 12.0%
I don't know 15.2%

At the end of court on 10/25 the results are;
Guilty 72.1%
Not Guilty 8.6%
I don't know 19.3

At the end of court on 10/24/24 the results are;
Guilty 68.1%
Not Guilty 9.4%
I Don't Know 22.5%
 
He did, for one week in 2019, according to Dr. Wala's pre-trial testimony at the 3 day hearings. I'm just not aware of the specific date of that stay.
Wasn't it in 2019 when LE had that change of course press conference? I'm wondering if RA was institutionalized after that press conference or before. Seems he had an episode after reading his discovery as well. mo
 
Wasn't it in 2019 when LE had that change of course press conference? I'm wondering if RA was institutionalized after that press conference or before. Seems he had an episode after reading his discovery as well. mo
It was. It would be really interesting to know the timing of his hospitalization in relation to that press conference. That could be huge.

 
I think I finally understand the clothes. Some clothes were found on the bridge side (S) of the creek, others were found on the cemetery side (N).

That means that the girls had already removed some of their clothing before crossing the creek. They dropped or lost some clothes in the creek - including Abby's inside-out jeans. Libby lost a shoe while crossing the creek. Underwear, socks ... in the creek? Then the girls went up the hill towards the cemetery - without all of their clothes.

Were they assaulted before they crossed the creek (2:13-2:27)? What happened during the hour that RA was with the girls in the ravine (2:32-3:30)?

Now I understand what RA means about being interrupted. The girls were partially or completely undressed before they crossed the creek. They crossed the creek sooner than RA intended because the white van drove down the nearby driveway. The sexual assault was interrupted, but not ended.

... just an opinion based on time lines and clothes
Just pointing out, not debating.

Which side the clothes were on doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the side from which they came. They could have crossed fully clothed & he threw all the unworn clothes back in the creek before leaving. No clue how far downstream the clothes were found either. I’d assume one would have to be at the creek & see how it flows & know the approximate areas along the bank they were located to come up with anything close.

JMO
 
The one that really stuck out was Baldwin slamming down hundreds of pages of interview records & telling Mullin to find a specific answer. I’d have kindly handed it back & asked if he had a paralegal to bookmark his evidence. Probably wouldn’t have gone over too well.

Snipped:
I heard that took him quite a while to locate it. With that antic, the defense just demonstrated to the jury how hard it is to locate something in the discovery that you are actively looking for.

Whoops.
 
We know he had access to some of the discovery, but we do not know if he had access to all of the discovery.

Over the past couple of days we've learned he murdered the girls with a boxcutter, and dumped it in the CVS dumpster.

That he intended to rape the girls, but ultimately did not.

That he slit their "necks", and waited until they were dead.

That he went to his parent's house, decided not to have lunch with them, bought a six pack, drank three, and went to the bridge. None of that is in discovery.

This wasn't a case where a medical examiner changed his ruling, which we've seen a million times on here (suicide to homicide, accident to homicide). He simply said that a boxcutter could have made those slash marks. It's either possible or it isn't, and the description of the wounds makes it way more probable than not in my mind that it was a boxcutter.

Tomorrow the jury will hear confessions from Allen's own mouth; two hours of them. That will be compelling stuff for sure.

One man said he was there at the time in question. A camera catches a very similar car to his at this time in question.
One man said he was dressed in the same clothing as BG. Witnesses saw him there, and he saw some of the witnesses. He was fish watching (as one does), while checking his stock ticker on a phone that couldn't possibly have been turned on. An unspent round matching his gun was found at the scene.

The prosecution has the evidence, and it is compelling. All the defense can do is try and refute that evidence. I don't know in what universe the defense is on the precipice of winning here.
Did he eject bullet evidence at the North end of the bridge (to threaten the girls), pick it up, and it fell out of his pocket when he dragged Libby to the tree? Bullet evidence was found 2 feet from Libby, between Libby and Abby.

The defence has an alternate theory where RA's phone left the park at 2:15. The victims were taken down the hill by the man who lives there. He owns a white van ... and the girls were taken away in a vehicle, then returned to same location at 10 pm or 4 am. Then they walked across the creek and up the ravine, or they were carried. That theory will be the defence downfall, but maybe it's the best they have.

<modsnip - off topic>
 

Attachments

  • 1730355543270.png
    1730355543270.png
    312.5 KB · Views: 11
Last edited by a moderator:
Did he eject bullet evidence at the North end of the bridge (to threaten the girls), pick it up, and it fell out of his pocket when he dragged Libby to the tree? Bullet evidence was found 2 feet from Libby, between Libby and Abby.

The defence has an alternate theory where RA's phone left the park at 2:15. The victims were taken down the hill by the man who lives there. He owns a white van ... and the girls were taken away in a vehicle, then returned to same location at 10 pm or 4 am. Then they walked across the creek and up the ravine, or they were carried. That theory will be the defence downfall, but maybe it's the best they have.

<modsnip - off topic>
RA is being represented by public defenders.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Snipped:
I heard that took him quite a while to locate it. With that antic, the defense just demonstrated to the jury how hard it is to locate something in the discovery that you are actively looking for.

Whoops.
Not really. It just showed Mullin as an unreliable witness because he couldn’t line up a basic answer with previous. It wasn’t a hard question. Impeaching a witness and handing them a pile of papers essentially in an okay you don’t remember here’s what you said way, then looking for six minutes unable to find it looks good to a jury for the defense. IMO
<modsnip - personalizing>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
These confessions are going to add a whole new level of unluckiness to the unlucky Richard Allen. He's out on the trails the day two little girls are murdered. The murderer's caught on video. Rirchard Allen is wearing the exact same outfit as the overdressed murderer. Richard Allen was on a stock ticker that day, but doesn't have his phone by the time he's arrested, and the phone apparently didn't ping off the trails. Richard Allen claims to have been on the trail at the same time as the murderer, but then changes the timeframe years later, when his memory has evidently been refreshed. Richard Allen called himself in and arranged an interview with a conservation officer in a grocery store parking lot to note that he'd seen young girls near Freedom Bridge on a trail the day young girls disappeared from and were subsequently murdered on that trail. Then, apparently these same young girls from Freedom Bridge later step forward and say they saw someone that day that they later thought was the man in Libby's video (Richard Allen's alleged identical twin who is the one that murders people). A bullet that appears to have been cycled through RA's gun is found between the victims, but he has no idea how it could possibly have gotten there. He has a keepsake bullet in a wooden box in his bedroom, which I guess we're supposed to believe has no relation to anything in the case, this is just another in a string of cruel coincidences for Richard Allen. He knows he's not the person in the image the police showed him if the victims took the picture, evidently acknowledging that he's such a dead ringer for BG that the only thing really separating them is a murder conviction and prison time. He also apparently has the only Ford Focus in Carroll County, and this is the vehicle supposedly caught on video driving that day at 300 N.

Richard Allen has box cutters, which have been identified as a possible weapon in the murders, and Richard Allen has said he used box cutters to murder these girls. Richard Allen said he was interrupted as he was committing his heinous acts by a van, and lo and behold, now Brad Weber has testified he came home in a van at right around the time and right in the victinity of where Richard Allen would have been "interrupted" by the van.

It increasingly looks like Richard Allen made his own luck, and one has to suspect he's going to be more unlucky yet.
 
Thursday, October 31st:
*Trial continues (Day 12) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].

Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-10 (10/18-10/29/24) reference post #103 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-207.727485/page-6

10/30/24 Docket update: Accused's Second Motion to Admit Evidence filed by Allen. [Motion to admit regarding 3rd party culpability evidence & theories].
10/30/24 Wednesday, Trial Day 11: State witness: Dr. Monica Wala, ISP clinical psychologist. She is a contractor & lead psychologist at the Indiana DOC at the Westville Correctional Unit [testified regarding multiple confessions made to her by Allen on 4/5/23; began seeing him in November, 2022]. Prosecutor’s Office investigator Steve Mullin back on stand. Brad Weber [a Carroll County resident who lives off County Road 625 West, just outside of Delphi. He owns the property near the Monon High Bridge where the girls were killed].
For more info see post #200 (Day 11 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-207.727485/page-10
Trial continues on Thursday, 10/31/24 @ 9am.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
147
Guests online
239
Total visitors
386

Forum statistics

Threads
609,379
Messages
18,253,427
Members
234,647
Latest member
KatlynS
Back
Top