Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[minor4th]

I'm not very happy about the testimony from the "gun expert". How on earth do you compare a fired round to an unspent round and say they match?

How indeed?

 

[Davemac1]

I do not think state has reached BARD for me, there theory of how the crime happened and the time/timings don't add up for me, so even if I was persuaded that he did it the state theory of the crime is not feasible for me.
But as I posted on Day 1 of trial I expect a conviction as IMO it would be a very strong jury/juror to vote NG with all the pressures, expectations and high profile of the case

Sadly, I think I agree. I don't blame the prosecution for that. LE has really hamstrung them.
The handling of the crime scene and investigating potential suspects has strongly bordered on negligence imho.

 

[lisette]

The medication issue has been as clear as mud IMO

Everything about this trial has been as clear as mud TO US…Because we have not had access to seeing and hearing it as it occurred. I’m sure there are many details that we haven’t been privy to. I am confident that the jury has a much clearer picture and will make the right decision based on the facts.

 

[minor4th]

Everything about this trial has been as clear as mud TO US…Because we have not had access to seeing and hearing it as it occurred. I’m sure there are many details that we haven’t been privy to. I am confident that the jury has a much clearer picture and will make the right decision based on the facts.

Let’s hope so!

 

[Spartygirl]

ETA to add initials:

At 2:13 p.m. the jury asked questions:

1. Did the oral haldol continue after June 20, 2023? Martin answers yes.
2. What time did you meet with Allen on June 20, 2023? Martin says early in the morning.
3. Based on the video, could this presentation be consistent with faking? Martin says no.
4. Is it possible for Allen to slip in and out of psychosis in a 24-hour period? Martin says yes

At 2:15 p.m. the state says it has no other rebuttal witnesses. Gull tells the jury “you have now heard all arguments in this case.”

The jury exits the court room at 2:16 p.m. Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin revisits jury instructions wanting to add a statement of confessions. The state objects. The defense withdraws the request.

Baldwin again brings up an offer of proof involving a man named EF, who is connected to the defense’s Odinism defense. The state says this does not matter because the defense has rested.

Baldwin says he wants EF addressed because he did not respond to a subpoena. Judge Gull says she already ruled he would not testify.

Court is in recess at 2:27 p.m.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

BBM

OMG !!!

Defense still trying to get the Odin/EF BS into court??

AFTER they already rested ???

LMAO--
As disappointed as I am with them and hoped that RA would have received better representation, they have provided some entertainment, as Circuses tend to do.

 

[Mitch1]

So a question for the masses does anybody who thought he was guilty now think he is innocent?

Well, I initially thought it could be him. The prosecution just could never overcome my thought that it could also be someone that was hiding in the woods waiting for the right moment. I also feel like the person that did commit the crime has done it before-the 1st time I heard BG say down the hill it sounded so unbelievably casual as if he was saying time to go to the store or something. Creepy. BG also doesn’t appear to be 5’4 either-they should have gotten his height validated. Prosecution can have a good circumstantial case-this just isn’t it.

Also will add I could care less about those confessions and his proclamations of innocence

 

[minor4th]

So a question for the masses does anybody who thought he was guilty now think he is innocent?

I thought he was guilty and now I think he might be innocent.

 

[NoeticSoul]

If I'm not mistaken, he said the boxcutter wasn't serrated. He said the handle dragging across the skin would give that impression.

The handle on the boxcutters that I use for crafting have a weird pointy serrated-like end and also, the blades are meant to break off easily if they get dull. Also the blades are long and extendable.

eta the blade is 3" long when extended

 

[minor4th]

The handle on the boxcutters that I use for crafting have a weird pointy serrated-like end and also, the blades are meant to break off easily if they get dull. Also the blades are long and extendable.

Some of the wounds were 2 inches deep. I don’t see how a box cutter could make that kind of incision.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Some of the wounds were 2 inches deep. I don’t see how a box cutter could make that kind of incision.

The blade on that one is 3" (when fully extended)

eta the blade extended

 

[FrostedGlass]

I believe it was weekly injections in addition to daily doses of Haldol? And Seroquel has been mentioned-IIRC during Dr Wala’s testimony. But I can’t find any articles so I’m unsure when he was taking Seroquel (another antipsychotic)-was it before Westville, at Westville, or after he was transferred? Surely the prescribing Dr has a detailed record of what drugs he was being given.

He was given a monthly injection of something for 3 months. Is Seroquel injectible?

Even more confusing is this:
[snip]
"Prosecutors said that they had considered “involuntary medication” to treat Allen’s symptoms, but two psychiatrists and a psychologist had allegedly deemed it unnecessary, and they also felt it wasn’t necessary to move him to another facility with a psychiatric unit."

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents

The newly unsealed documents provide insight into what investigators found at the crime scene as well as their interactions with Richard Allen before and after his arrest.

www.huffpost.com

 

[MassGuy]

And you find that perfectly credible?

I do not find his narrative credible at all (practicing in his garage), but I’d bet the farm on those wounds being from a box cutter.

I’d be shocked if he’d ever performed an autopsy with that as a weapon though.

 

[Vern]

Have you ever seen a serrated box cutter?

Indeed I have. Seen them, was issued them via work and have used them.

The are indeed a thing.

 

[joe jones]

Sadly, I think I agree. I don't blame the prosecution for that. LE has really hamstrung them.
The handling of the crime scene and investigating potential suspects has strongly bordered on negligence imho.

I also think prosecution underestimated defence, once they got rid of the odinist theory (and it was LE who initially investigated the odinists and provided defence with the evidence for them to have there odinists theory, the defence didn't come up with the odinist evidence themselves) they possibly thought the defence has no defence left, but the defence have cleverly outwitted the prosecution in many areas, they got the police interview admitted as evidence, they got the jail videos admitted, they got many prosecution witnesses to give testimony that was favourable to defence,
I found it extraordinary that it took a whole day for prosecution witness to testify about one cartridge, when defence tool mark examiner was much more concise

 

[Spartygirl]

I wonder why RA continued to confess well after Martin said he was no longer in psychosis.

IMO,
Guilt,
Finding God,
Now Sober, No alcohol,
Wifey & Mommy no longer taking his calls

Any one of those, but most likely the whole combination of them all.

 

[getthefax]

So a question for the masses does anybody who thought he was guilty now think he is innocent?

Nope.

 

[Tortoise]

Some of the wounds were 2 inches deep. I don’t see how a box cutter could make that kind of incision.

I believe 2" might have been the length as opposed to the depth.

"Forensic Pathologist Dr. Roland Kohr, who performed the autopsies, testified:

• The autopsy revealed Abby had a five to six-centimeter-long wound (approximately 2 inches long) on the left side of her neck, however, Dr. Kohr said it was not a deep cut, “only an inch deep” in the doctor’s words."

IN v. Richard Allen: Delphi Murders Trial

Richard Allen is facing up to 130 years in prison for killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German just outside Delphi, Indiana.

www.courttv.com

Abby had one cut to the left side of her neck. Dr. Kohr said it was a partial cut through the left jugular vein. Dr. Kohr said the transverse (horizontal) cut was about 2.75 inches long and was gaping open about 2 inches. There were no signs of blunt force trauma. He said because of some abbrasions on the right side of the wound and a clean edge on the left side, he would estimate the cut was made from right to left. He estimated it was about an inch deep.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

 

[Trebor5591]

Sadly, I think I agree. I don't blame the prosecution for that. LE has really hamstrung them.
The handling of the crime scene and investigating potential suspects has strongly bordered on negligence imho.

So if LE bungled the investigation so badly, I have to wonder why Superintendent Carter asked the FBI to leave the investigation? Shouldn't he have wanted the FBI to stay on? At least the FBI is technically competent...

 

[Spartygirl]

I also think prosecution underestimated defence, once they got rid of the odinist theory (and it was LE who initially investigated the odinists and provided defence with the evidence for them to have there odinists theory, the defence didn't come up with the odinist evidence themselves) they possibly thought the defence has no defence left, but the defence have cleverly outwitted the prosecution in many areas, they got the police interview admitted as evidence, they got the jail videos admitted, they got many prosecution witnesses to give testimony that was favourable to defence,
I found it extraordinary that it took a whole day for prosecution witness to testify about one cartridge, when defence tool mark examiner was much more concise

The defense tool mark examiner did NOT even see or test the bullet (cartridge) and the gun !!

Not very Concise, IMO

 

[Mitch1]

IMO-prosecutors made the decision to bring the case to trial knowing what they had and what they DIDNT