VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

[girlhasnoname]

Dr. Martin did have RA sign a consent form on Jan 24, 2024 for the IDOC to administer his meds.

The next time he saw RA in person was April 13th (After discovery and his family refusing to talk to him) when he was covered in feces and brown liquid coming from his mouth, like he might have been consuming said feces. He felt RA was in a psychotic state at that point and conferred with other Doctors and Medical Personnel who all agreed a low dose of Haldol was appropriate for that behavior at the time. It's an antipsychotic, meaning it doesn't induce psychosis, it treats psychosis. That was when the calls to Wife and Mom appear much more coherent and RA more calm IMO.

At 43 min mark:

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Seventeen: The Rebuttal

It's good to hear the whole story of how RA was given Haldol, a low dose on a few occasions when he was harmful to himself and others. RA did become violent and beat his head against the bars and walls, threatening the guards. They (IDOC staff) regularly met with concerns about how best to detain RA. He couldn't be in Gen Pop for RA's own safety from other inmates, he needed more supervision because of self harm threats.

Even in his move to Cass County Jail hasn't prevented RA's volatile behavior and threats and I think the D should be grateful that Judge Gull did not allow the State to bring that into evidence.
#Justice4Abby&Libby

As always, JMO

 

[jepop]

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212'

Nov 7, 2024

JMT - I think it is the Knowledge C base that proves it had to be human.

No, I don't think it can. It can not differentiate between a human hand plugging in a headphone and any other way something could be in the headphone jack. KnowledgeC Database is just that---a database of the I-phones raw data.



The KnowledgeC database, or KnowledgeC.db, is an SQLite database file that stores records of activities on Apple devices. It's the database behind the coreduet daemon in iOS, which synchronizes states between Apple products. The KnowledgeC database can provide insight into a...

• katydid23

• 
• 

Hope above comes over ok.

@Katyid23 post from previous thread. Just imagining your excellent words coming out of the mouth of my imaginary state rebuttal expert witness re headphones jack log due to common and simple malfunction.

 

[BexLuth0r]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

And we're to believe that someone placed the phone in Libbys shoe, under Abby, plugged in a headphone jack, left it there for 5 hours, then came back, removed said headphone jack and did all this without disturbing the bodies and not moving Abby at all...

Imo there's just too many coincidences. As someone rightly mentioned in the previous thread, without DNA the idaho case would be very similar to this one, all circumstances. Just like Scott Peterson

RA is up there with Scott as being the most unlucky man in America what with all the coincidences that tie him to the case.

I can't believe it's almost over. I hope the families can find peace

 

[katydid23]

The witness stated more or less that a whole extraction is something she would have preferred because it would probably have provided more information. After the first extraction - a lot apparently was lost.

So, there is missing information which cannot be recovered due to LE which may have shown more activity or more logs. Who knows?!

JMO MOO JMT

Yes, that's true. That happens automatically over usage and time. That wasn't the fault of the digital techs. It's just what happens when you keep opening it to retrieve more data. Maybe like what happens with DNA testing? You can only do so many tests until...it's gone.

Also, when that initial extraction was studied, the first thing they did was find the last times the phone was used, unlocked, answered, etc. That would be the most important timeline data.

They made note of those times BEFORE information started dropping off. So there is no reason to believe that there were more notices of activity after the ones noted around 2:30 ish.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

So those persons that the defense wanted transported from prison didn't testify?

If not, what was that even about?

 

[BexLuth0r]

So those persons that the defense wanted transported from prison didn't testify?

If not, what was that even about?

I think, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that was for the SODDI argument. Which they weren't allowed to present due to a lack of evidence?

 

[shonyakay]

This is just my opinion but I believe the evidence against Allen is overwhelming.

However, I think the jury will still be very thorough and take their time with deliberations. I think there will be a verdict by late Thursday or early on Friday.

I believe the verdict will be guilty unless there is one holdout.


May Truth and Justice prevail for Abby and Libby.


Abigail Joyce Williams,
forever 13



&

Liberty Rose Lynn German,
forever 14



Photo Credits: Abby and Libby's families

 

[INfisherman]

So those persons that the defense wanted transported from prison didn't testify?

If not, what was that even about?

What @BexLuth0r said, mostly & I imagine some might have been strategic. Pretty hard telling with the defense though. Any doors either side opens, allows for the other to pounce upon so they both have to tread carefully.

ETA JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Brett of the Prosecutors made my favourite argument about how to handle circumstantial evidence and not fall into logical fallacies. @ 1 hour 56 mins

"I keep seeing people saying something [...] if there are no confessions would there be enough in this case [..] I feel like you are looking at this completely worng. I understand you are saying is there enough to convict him without confessions. But I feel like you've already gone down the wrong path at that point the confessions are part of this case they are part of this case no matter what, they are part of this case whether you believe them or don't believe them ... you can't look at individual pieces of evidence and just say to yourself ... well looking at this confession do i believe this confession is legitimate or not - I'm gonna say i don't believe this one [...] now i am going to move to confession 2 i don't know... you can't do that and the reason you can't do that is because when you are looking at the evidence in a holistic view, you don't know, and i dont know whether or not these confessions are legitimate. I don't know wether or not they are the product of psychosis. I don't know if RA is making them up and neither do you and so just because you have like heard this and thought well i dunno maybe these are made up - ok fine ... that is not the best way to analyse them, the best way to analyse them is in their totality. So you have man who put himself on the trails at the time the girls were murdered who was scene by other people who identity BG, whose says he is dressed like BG, whose bullet was found at the trails, whose car is caught on video driving to the trails, who says that he was spooked by a white van that was arriving at the trails at that time and then says he killed the girls in multiple different confessions ...

those are all facts you have to consider together and if you want to discount the confessions you cannot do it on the confessions alone, you have to do it in light of all the other evidence. So thinking about it in that bifurcated way i think you already started down the wrong path and you set yourself up not to have a good analysis of the evidence that it is in front of you,

I've posted about this many times down the years, but he explained it in a far less technical way.

Short version, the confessions need to be seen in context with all the evidence, and not just individually henpecked. Otherwise you end up speculating all the evidence in the case away without looking at it holistically.

IMO this case isn't even close. The defence 2nd location theory is laughably implausible. But we've ended in a place of granular speculation ... maybe bridge guy didn't do an abduction, maybe there are two bridge guys, maybe headphones, maybe psychosis caused 60+ false confessions, may Dr Wala read about white vans and decided to fit Ricky up. The warden and the forensic examiner are in on it. The Judge is biased and won't let the real satanist killers into evidence.

No.

 

[sunshineray]

So those persons that the defense wanted transported from prison didn't testify?

If not, what was that even about?

Good question. My guess, something to do with a Some Other Dude Did It defense?

 

[sunshineray]

Brett of the Prosecutors made my favourite argument about how to handle circumstantial evidence and not fall into logical fallacies. @ 1 hour 56 mins



I've posted about this many times down the years, but he explained it in a far less technical way.

Short version, the confessions need to be seen in context with all the evidence, and not just individually henpecked. Otherwise you end up speculating all the evidence in the case away without looking at it holistically.

IMO this case isn't even close. The defence 2nd location theory is laughably implausible. But we've ended in a place of granular speculation ... maybe bridge guy didn't do an abduction, maybe there are two bridge guys, maybe headphones, maybe psychosis caused 60+ false confessions, may Dr Wala read about white vans and decided to fit Ricky up. The warden and the forensic examiner are in on it. The Judge is biased and won't let the real satanist killers into evidence.

No.

A whole lot of No, just all speculation and as many have testified, untruths. MO

 

[mrjitty]

This is an excellent point.
Can it be both ways? Can the defence argue the white van theory when really all it is is theories on the Internet?

And we're to believe that someone placed the phone in Libbys shoe, under Abby, plugged in a headphone jack, left it there for 5 hours, then came back, removed said headphone jack and did all this without disturbing the bodies and not moving Abby at all...

Imo there's just too many coincidences. As someone rightly mentioned in the previous thread, without DNA the idaho case would be very similar to this one, all circumstances. Just like Scott Peterson

RA is up there with Scott as being the most unlucky man in America what with all the coincidences that tie him to the case.

I can't believe it's almost over. I hope the families can find peace

Rozzi's White van theory is an example of testimony by counsel IMO

There is no evidence Wala read anything about a white van, let alone told RA about one. it's just something Rozzi made up.

MOO

 

[Mauig’ma]

This is just my opinion but I believe the evidence against Allen is overwhelming.

However, I think the jury will still be very thorough and take their time with deliberations. I think there will be a verdict by late Thursday or early on Friday.

I believe the verdict will be guilty unless there is one holdout.


May Truth and Justice prevail for Abby and Libby.


Abigail Joyce Williams,
forever 13

View attachment 543570

&

Liberty Rose Lynn German,
forever 14

View attachment 543569

Photo Credits: Abby and Libby's families

Thank you for sharing their pictures and reminding all of us why we are here. Justice for these two beautiful girls whose lives were horrifically taken away. Rip girls. I’m happy you have each other

 

[raja]

The phone thing does bother me. The girls could not have been moved but the phone could have been. If it was turned off then moved to a stationary location, turned back on in airplane mode and tampered with and then returned to the crime scene. I am in no way saying this happened but it has been debated in the past why the killer left the phone there. I still think RA is the killer most likely.

 

[Inthedetails]

The phone thing does bother me. The girls could not have been moved but the phone could have been. If it was turned off then moved to a stationary location, turned back on in airplane mode and tampered with and then returned to the crime scene. I am in no way saying this happened but it has been debated in the past why the killer left the phone there. I still think RA is the killer most likely.

Curious why a murderer would return to the crime scene to leave a phone. Seems like the opposite thing a murderer would do, tbh.

jmo

 

[shonyakay]

If anyone is interested in seeing the view from under the bridge where the private road winds around, it is at the end of this video.

On February 13, 2017, anywhere between 2:22 p.m. and 2:27 p.m. BW would have been coming down this road heading toward the Monon High Bridge to drive underneath it, turning to the right where his parents lived.

Do you see how far you can see the road from under the bridge? Plenty of time for BG/RA to have the girls' gather their clothing items and force them across the creek.

Timestamp: 5:40

 

[pseudo_hum]

Curious why a murderer would return to the crime scene to leave a phone. Seems like the opposite thing a murderer would do, tbh.

jmo

Agreed. IMO, unless they were trying frame someone. But no evidence that anyone was framed. I believe the brave Libby provided the documentation needed to solve this case. RIP.

 

[BexLuth0r]

Curious why a murderer would return to the crime scene to leave a phone. Seems like the opposite thing a murderer would do, tbh.

jmo

Also, wouldn't the coroner be able to prove that Abby's body was moved to place the phone back underneath her body? If there was no evidence of her being disturbed (which it doesn't seem like there was) then that physically cannot happen?

I agree with you completely. It does not make logical sense to take the phone, which has evidence on it of BG, plug headphones in, use it somewhere, keep it on airplane mode (but don't unlock it to put it into airplane mode) so it doesn't track that it is moving, do whatever with it other than unlock it but don't delete the BG video, and then return it to the scene of the crime. It makes zero sense.

But then didn't it ping off of a tower at 4am and the headphone jack was removed at 10pm?? so if airplane mode was deactivated at 10pm, why didn't things come through until 4am?

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Curious why a murderer would return to the crime scene to leave a phone. Seems like the opposite thing a murderer would do, tbh.

jmo

Let’s not forget the trail cams that were in the area. They’d have to avoid those as well, or be quite lucky.

JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

Yes, that's true. That happens automatically over usage and time. That wasn't the fault of the digital techs. It's just what happens when you keep opening it to retrieve more data. Maybe like what happens with DNA testing? You can only do so many tests until...it's gone.

Also, when that initial extraction was studied, the first thing they did was find the last times the phone was used, unlocked, answered, etc. That would be the most important timeline data.

They made note of those times BEFORE information started dropping off. So there is no reason to believe that there were more notices of activity after the ones noted around 2:30 ish.

If the Witness had been given the phone itself, I wonder, would she have been able to look under the hood with it that way given half the chance. There are probably parts she could have accessed and looked at that the LE didn't have the expertise to do or know about.

LE had it for over 7 years whereas all she had to go by was their extracts and not the phone itself by the sounds of it.

Also, LE couldn't give answers as to whether or not there was water damage or dirt on the phone.

7 years they had it - 7 years.

She may have been able to give a few more details which could have ruled things out or ruled things in.

Link: Defense Phone Expert

JMO MOO JMT