VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

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I have followed Abby and Libby since they were still considered missing. 7 and 1/2 years have passed, and here we are, waiting for a verdict, a day many of us who have been here, including those of us who mostly lurk, may have never thought we would see! Justice for our girls!
 
Some people don't know what reasonable means.

"Reasonable doubt is a logical, fair, and actual doubt that arises from a careful and impartial consideration of all the evidence in a criminal case. It is a doubt that is based on reason and common sense, and is not based on speculation. "
 
This is a very good point.

I started this Trial because I have a daughter who was the same age as Abby when this occurred and at the time it impacted the sense of foreboding I had as a parent allowing her to explore and be a kid in our very rural area. It was sort of a wake up call to me that I could not assume safety. In a way, it stripped from me the feeling that I was providing a place for my kids to grow up with similar freedom and innocence as I had the gift of growing up in.

However, I did not follow this when it was a case. I was not privy to the frustrations in the investigation. I was unaware of any other POI, or theory. I quite literally started this trial as close to a juror as could be. I knew the basics. 2 girls on a hike end up leaving this life in a brutal fashion. I had seen the 2 sketches, and other than a passing wonder, how could they appear so different, no additional thought. I had heard the creepy DTH audio, and saw a still of BG but could not have described his clothing even remotely. I did not even know the defendants name.

Because I was this way and there were so many threads, I decided to try this trial in a way I have not previously. I have tried to skim the threads, and read the MSM posting of the testimony. I have not gone back to motions, or theories to consider what was previous. I have had some exposure to it from general discussion in skimming the threads, but other than the Odinism name in the threads I still do not know what exactly that is supposed to suggest happened.

With this in mind I can tell you I was shocked as I learned the COD was from sharp force trauma. I was first introduced to the idea of a box cutter from the testimony. I did pick up that was an afterthought, but then I think most reports will have additions or afterthoughts for clarity as time passes and experts reflect on their findings, so I do not find this point to be a problem. I then learned for the first time that RA reports being on the trails. I learn of witnesses that clearly identify BG as someone they saw. I agree that witness testimony is not completely aligned, but I am open in my thoughts since I too, played the game in college where we got exposed to something and then after the incident had passed were challenged to describe the person or thing. I tend to view eyewitness testimony as guidance because of this.

By this stage I was thinking. Yes, BG was on the trails. RA was on the trails, and RA seems to be wavering on his time at the trails. That wavering makes me curious, but not sure it is him.

I then hear how the crime occurs from DTH to where the crime finished. The testimony was clear, and heartbreaking, but left me with no doubt BG is the killer. But BG is not necessarily RA.

Then the bullet. I am inclined to accept the bullet marks as identifying. This may be from my background in failure analysis and decades of seeing microscopic marks and trying to assign identifying features that identify where a failure is occurring, it also could be the one time I broke my try to be a juror approach and did my own anecdotal test on cartridge extraction. Either way, I place a high value on the cartridge being linked to the gun RA owns. Especially with the unique identifier pointed out where the ejector has an anomaly which was also highlighted in a juror question to the Defense expert. I am now at RA=BG=Killer.

Then I heard confessions, and in some ways this began to make me reconsider my thoughts. I think there was plenty of crazy utterances and "confessions" that were not worthy of being presented. However, once the white van confession was presented, and the logic in how that confession started the search for a white van, and that white van was indeed found and placed near the crime scene, and at the time just right to explain the distraction mentioned in the confession. I can not accept that confession is not based on knowledge only held by the killer. Psychosis or not the details support the veracity in my opinion. I was moved and impacted by the defense and their experts. I absolutely feel there was excited utterances of guilt and that is likely due to psychosis. I also agree the isolation may have caused or exacerbated those. It still does not change the details that were backed up by the van being there at the right time in the right place.

I have listened to the defense I considered their counters. I find the counter ejector mark expert weak, in many ways he discounts his own expertise by discounting approved accepted standards, to then simply say the most important tool he has is himself....

So I as a juror would be entering the deliberations from the perspective that the state proved the case and vote guilty.

Sorry for the novel, but thought it would be interesting sharing the perspective having come in without background knowledge on all the details.

Obviously my opinion only.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! Your perspective is much appreciated. I agree, that my background in database analysis makes me put different weight in some evidence than a different type of layperson, but that's ppl on the jury - I assume and hope they all bring their own life experience with them.
 
* 2024

@KaitlynReports

The jury is now deliberating the #Delphi case against accused murder suspect Richard Allen. They went into deliberations at 1:24 pm, 11/7/2023.

@wrtv is on standby until a verdict is met.

2:26 PM · Nov 7, 2024

It doesn’t seem real that we are now on verdict watch. I remember feeling so despondent thinking the case was cold and an arrest may never be made.

Thank you so much to all of you who have posted about the case over the years and for caring that Abby and Liberty and their loved ones get justice. I want to say a big thank you to Tricia and all the moderators who have worked tirelessly on 213 threads 24/7.

It is a pity we haven’t been able to watch the trial and we won’t see the verdict being announced. Hopefully we will get to hear from some of the jury members about how they reached their verdict.I am extremely grateful to all of you who have posted updates about the trial to keep us all updated.

Abby and Liberty’s loved ones continue to be in my thoughts and prayers I cannot imagine how stressed and distressed they must be feeling and my heart goes out to them.
 
Some people don't know what reasonable means.

"Reasonable doubt is a logical, fair, and actual doubt that arises from a careful and impartial consideration of all the evidence in a criminal case. It is a doubt that is based on reason and common sense, and is not based on speculation. "
I'm thinking that the vetting process when the jury was selected determined the people could understand what reasonable doubt means and could apply the principle to the case at hand.

The public consuming true-crime stories doesn't pass the same vetting process so the "what if" theories take hold, even when not reasonable.

jmo
 
<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

If you’re right then I’ll eat my hat. I’ve used that line probably 10 times on here in the past several years, and I’ve never had to do that.

I’d love to be wrong this time.
I would LOVE for you to be wrong, because the wait is terrible for my nerves. Also it would be hilarious to see you eat a hat, presumably a little paper one?

But seriously, I think this jury is methodical and inquisitive enough to bring out timelines and go through all the evidence one by one.

Which is great, but also sometimes I believe in 'totality of evidence' vs belabouring a single point.

We shall see.

All MOO
 
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One thing that will happen and is probably already being prepared is RA will begin a civil case for his treatment pretrial, and IMO he should sue all the people who were involved,
IMO he was deliberately placed in solitary not for safekeeping but for punishment,
I have followed cases where the defendant has been charged with equally horrific crimes, some who have killed many more victims and they were housed in county jail and got to trial with no problems
 
...no hat eating today, shoot.

But yes, I think it is good they retired early-ish today, I believe they have reached a good place in their deliberations and want to carry on early in the morning.
I suspect they selected the foreman and decided HOW they are going to organize their discussions so they can jump in right away tomorrow.

Or....they reached their verdict but want to sleep on it! Maybe?

jmo
 
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