VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

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BexLuth0r said:
Also, wouldn't the coroner be able to prove that Abby's body was moved to place the phone back underneath her body? If there was no evidence of her being disturbed (which it doesn't seem like there was) then that physically cannot happen?

I agree with you completely. It does not make logical sense to take the phone, which has evidence on it of BG, plug headphones in, use it somewhere, keep it on airplane mode (but don't unlock it to put it into airplane mode) so it doesn't track that it is moving, do whatever with it other than unlock it but don't delete the BG video, and then return it to the scene of the crime. It makes zero sense.

But then didn't it ping off of a tower at 4am and the headphone jack was removed at 10pm?? so if airplane mode was deactivated at 10pm, why didn't things come through until 4am?

JMO
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Just a sidenote - but airplane mode does not help as phones have onboard passive GPS

So even if it were somehow possible to put the phone into airplane mode without that being logged, the phone would still log steps and lat/long IMO

There is simply no way around the conclusion that the apple health tracked the phone to its final resting place and there is no further activity

This is why the defence until 5 mins ago was claiming the phone was turned off until 4.30am - it's the only way to move the phone without logging steps and location changes
 
MiniMoo said:
If the Witness had been given the phone itself, I wonder, would she have been able to look under the hood with it that way given half the chance. There are probably parts she could have accessed and looked at that the LE didn't have the expertise to do or know about.

LE had it for over 7 years whereas all she had to go by was their extracts and not the phone itself by the sounds of it.

Also, LE couldn't give answers as to whether or not there was water damage or dirt on the phone.

7 years they had it - 7 years.

She may have been able to give a few more details which could have ruled things out or ruled things in.

JMO MOO JMT
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Don’t you feel it would be difficult to imagine her doing much more with the phone since she hadn’t had extraction training in 15 years? Software evolves & changes quite a bit in a few years time, some bi-annually. Apologies if I sound like a broken record. I’ve made a living for most of my adult life using software to design & simulate fatigue testing of automotive components & I couldn’t imagine how handcuffed I’d be if I hadn’t had some sort of training to familiarize myself with how the software had changed over the years.

JMO
 
It seems RA numerous times talked about his attorneys always giving him the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine.

art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Seventeen: The Rebuttal

We discuss the seventeenth day of Richard Allen's trial. The defense rested-- and the prosecution offered three rebuttal witnesses. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here: https://www.murdersheetshop.com/ Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a...
art19.com art19.com

"Whoever dubbed themselves the bad cop in the routine has basically indicated they’re a toxic person who should be avoided at all costs. So at the very least, the bad cop character will not be able to contribute to a constructive relationship with the prospective client."
(...)
"Even if these tactics are successful, they bring a tremendous amount of bad energy to your team."
(...)
"Stuff like this happens all the time in the private sector. You win with the good cop/bad cop strategy one time, and you want to do it over and over again."

www.blackswanltd.com

Why Good Cop, Bad Cop in a Negotiation is a Terrible Idea

Is using good cop/bad cop in a negotiation a good idea? The short answer is no. Here’s why ...
www.blackswanltd.com www.blackswanltd.com

The "Good cop/Bad Cop routine can, over time, create bad physiological effects in the person it's used on. It breeds distrust and stress when being in the presence of one person who's supposed to be your advocate. That can't be a good thing.

The routine, it would seem to me, could also lead to a person wanting to disengage from someone who's messing with your psychological well-being by contributing to you experiencing more stress and depression already in your situation.

What happens to the safe feelings of communicating and collaborating you should have with the people charged with defending your life, when your lawyers are basically using the Reid technique on you? No wonder RA asked his wife in one of the phone calls, (paraphrasing) Do you think I can I trust my lawyers?

Rozzi's cross of rebuttal witness Dr. Martin was also interesting and begs the question, how many time did RA's attorneys make it to Westville to see him? Was it more than the eight times Dr. Martin saw him and did RA come to dread his own attorney's visits?

Just some thoughts and AJMO
 
INfisherman said:
Don’t you feel it would be difficult to imagine her doing much more with the phone since she hadn’t had extraction training in 15 years? Software evolves & changes quite a bit in a few years time, some bi-annually. Apologies if I sound like a broken record. I’ve made a living for most of my adult life using software to design & simulate fatigue testing of automotive components & I couldn’t imagine how handcuffed I’d be if I hadn’t had some sort of training to familiarize myself with how the software had changed over the years.

JMO
Click to expand...

I do believe she did a few things to bring herself up to scratch in the past few years including October of this year. Also, she was able to work out what the LE couldn't yet it was in front of them all this time.

Am sure it is all very technical, of course.

Personally, I reckon that phone should have been handed over to someone that could do that type of job like yesterday - even if not her.

JMO MOO JMT
 
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MiniMoo said:
If the Witness had been given the phone itself, I wonder, would she have been able to look under the hood with it that way given half the chance. There are probably parts she could have accessed and looked at that the LE didn't have the expertise to do or know about.

LE had it for over 7 years whereas all she had to go by was their extracts and not the phone itself by the sounds of it.

Also, LE couldn't give answers as to whether or not there was water damage or dirt on the phone.

7 years they had it - 7 years.

She may have been able to give a few more details which could have ruled things out or ruled things in.

Link: Defense Phone Expert

JMO MOO JMT
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A full file system extraction is what she was given. That’s basically the gold standard for extractions, and you’re not going to be able to get more data than what’s in that extraction, especially with not having had any training in cellular extractions since 2009 or whatever it was.

www.magnetforensics.com

Comparing logical extraction vs file system extraction - Magnet Forensics

Logical extraction can be good, but is limited in the depth & quality of data. GRAYKEY uses a file system extraction to get all data you need.
www.magnetforensics.com www.magnetforensics.com

 
MiniMoo said:
I do believe she did a few things to bring herself up to scratch in the past few years including October of this year. Also, she was able to work out what the LE couldn't yet it was in front of them all this time.

Am sure it is all very technical, of course.

Personally, I reckon that phone should have been handed over to someone that could do that type of job like yesterday - even if not her.

JMO MOO JMT
Click to expand...
BBM

I would characterize her earth-shattering testimony more as someone looking at raw data out of context and misinterpreting it into a ridiculous theory that has zero credibility. I can’t fault LE for not… doing that.

JMO
 
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raja said:
The phone thing does bother me. The girls could not have been moved but the phone could have been. If it was turned off then moved to a stationary location, turned back on in airplane mode and tampered with and then returned to the crime scene. I am in no way saying this happened but it has been debated in the past why the killer left the phone there. I still think RA is the killer most likely.
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I think Abby's remains would show signs of being moved to put the phone under her if the phone was put at the crime scene at night. The autopsy did not provide information that she was moved even a small bit after the crime was committed. The phone was an average iphone 6. It did not have magical powers that the defense would like us to believe. It did not have headphones attached to it at one point. It was not tampered with. It did not leave the crime scene and reappear. It laid where it dropped or was put during the crime. Probably dropped.
 
Thankfully we are almost there, and hopefully we will see justice for Abby and Libby. I’m not sure there can be justice TBH when 2 vibrant young souls are swept from our world to die an agonizing death to satisfy a predator’s wants and needs. How can there be justice for such evil?

The last several years have been a sad and perplexing journey for me while we have stood guard over our heroic girls and prayed for their grieving families and friends.

I’m not sure when, or why, it became “sport” and fun, to harass and accuse family and general folk for an atrocious murder.

When did common sense and reality cease to be part of our lives?

Why do trolls take up space in our lives to push idiotic and fanciful claims knowing full well they are doing nothing but spewing lies that destroy our sensibilities and mock those that don’t agree?

It’s become nothing more than clicks and giggles IMO and presents a huge detriment to pursuing truth and honesty.

Our world is devolving into hate and lack of critical thinking. We have allowed SM presenters to speak their garbage and distort the facts and greed is definitely a part of this.

IMO there is no place for these vile opportunists to creat chaos by proliferating lie after lie in a space devoted to two young girls who were just living their lives on a beautiful afternoon in February 2017.

The last two years have not been about our girls. They simply got lost in the shuffle.

Later today, it will be up to the Jury who have been presented with facts, testimony, and evidence. I’m not sure how hard this decision will be for them, but I pray that they are able to wade through the crap and can be poised to think logically and use common sense to guide them. I think they’ll be OK.

Maybe today or tomorrow or the next day really will be THE DAY.

MOO, JMO, IMHO
 
I have a question about Weber's property.

There have been two different properties by the bridge that have been claimed to be related to the Weber's.

If you are standing under the bridge facing the North side of the bridge, BW's property is listed to the left.

Posters on here stated that BW was visiting his parents' home that day.

Is that another Weber property under the bridge to the right. Possibly his parents? I was under that impression.

There are different sources saying different things. I want to know the right information so I state the correct information.
 
m00c0w said:
BBM

I would characterize her earth-shattering testimony more as someone looking at raw data out of context and misinterpreting it into a ridiculous theory that has zero credibility. I can’t fault LE for not… doing that.

JMO
Click to expand...

It really amazes me that until 5 minutes ago, the D claim was the phone was switched off until 4.30am

So I can see how the jury could be confused, but there is no excuse for us being confused when we can see this is but the latest and even more implausible idea the D has come up with since their first theory had to be abandoned ....

Especially in respect of D surrogates who claimed until 2 days ago that the phone MUST have been switched on at 4.30 am have now completely forgotten they were saying that!

MOO
 
INfisherman said:
What @BexLuth0r said, mostly & I imagine some might have been strategic. Pretty hard telling with the defense though. Any doors either side opens, allows for the other to pounce upon so they both have to tread carefully.

ETA JMO
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I wonder why KA's declarations about her husband and his life, his behaviors were allowed to come in through the Dr who testified for the defense but KA can't be required to take the stand about her words. To me that seems a bit underhanded and unfair. I wonder if that doctor taped the conversation(s?) with KA or just took notes? If she took notes, why wasn't a report generated like Dr. Wala did? No report, no discovery, no chance to ask questions about KA's narrative. Why isn't KA's narrative being used by the doctor in court seen as a waiver of her spousal protection? HIPA? I guess all that wouldn't matter anyway because RA would just invoke his party-spouse privilege and stop her from testifying. AJMO
 
jepop said:
katydid23

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212'

MiniMoo said:
JMT - I think it is the Knowledge C base that proves it had to be human.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think it can. It can not differentiate between a human hand plugging in a headphone and any other way something could be in the headphone jack. KnowledgeC Database is just that---a database of the I-phones raw data.



The KnowledgeC database, or KnowledgeC.db, is an SQLite database file that stores records of activities on Apple devices. It's the database behind the coreduet daemon in iOS, which synchronizes states between Apple products. The KnowledgeC database can provide insight into a...
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Hope above comes over ok.

@Katyid23 post from previous thread. Just imagining your excellent words coming out of the mouth of my imaginary state rebuttal expert witness re headphones jack log due to common and simple malfunction.
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But the questions coming to my mind are why is the cord connection starting at around 6pm when they are supposed to have crossed the water at around 2:30 and how did it clear itself if it were dirt or moisture with the phone located where it was? Those things just don't make sense to me.
 
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shonyakay said:
I have a question about Weber's property.

There have been two different properties by the bridge that have been claimed to be related to the Weber's.

If you are standing under the bridge facing the North side of the bridge, BW's property is listed to the left.

Posters on here stated that BW was visiting his parents' home that day.

Is that another Weber property under the bridge to the right. Possibly his parents? I was under that impression.

There are different sources saying different things. I want to know the right information so I state the correct information.
Click to expand...
There are several parcels that belong to the W family. I think the link highlights the driveway area. jmo

 
sunshineray said:
I wonder why KA's declarations about her husband and his life, his behaviors were allowed to come in through the Dr who testified for the defense but KA can't be required to take the stand about her words. To me that seems a bit underhanded and unfair. I wonder if that doctor taped the conversation(s?) with KA or just took notes? If she took notes, why wasn't a report generated like Dr. Wala did? No report, no discovery, no chance to ask questions about KA's narrative. Why isn't KA's narrative being used by the doctor in court seen as a waiver of her spousal protection? HIPA? I guess all that wouldn't matter anyway because RA would just invoke his party-spouse privilege and stop her from testifying. AJMO
Click to expand...
No lawyer, but I imagine the state didn’t feel it was necessary or worth any possible risks. My best guess is don’t bet on things which you cannot control or in this case predict what they might say. Both sides have pretty much avoided bringing "character" types of witnesses other than the daughter & step sister, so maybe neither see it as obvious or safe bet having her up there. Also, if the state were to call her, it might seem like they’re out for more than just a guilty verdict. I wish I could give you a definitive answer.

JMO
 
@NewsyBarbara

Day 18 - closing arguments in the Delphi Murders trial. Sequestered jurors paid close attention, watched and listened to Allen’s own words and behavior behind bars, and have been able to question witnesses. Soon it’ll be up to them to decide Richard Allen’s guilt or innocence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854505486453764276
 
INfisherman said:
No lawyer, but I imagine the state didn’t feel it was necessary or worth any possible risks. My best guess is don’t bet on things which you cannot control or in this case predict what they might say. Both sides have pretty much avoided bringing "character" types of witnesses other than the daughter & step sister, so maybe neither see it as obvious or safe bet having her up there. Also, if the state were to call her, it might seem like they’re out for more than just a guilty verdict. I wish I could give you a definitive answer.

JMO
Click to expand...
Neither the daughter or step-sister gave character evidence. Whether or not they were abused by RA is a fact question and used as impeachment evidence to discredit the notion that he did.
 
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