VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

[Skigh]

When the jury are debating are they still able to ask the judge questions?

 

[MiniMoo]

When the jury are debating are they still able to ask the judge questions?

Deliberating.

 

[arielilane]

9 A.M. COURT IN SESSION FOR THURSDAY​

After 17 days of witness testimony and evidence being presented, the jury will hear from both the prosecution and defense when closing arguments begin Thursday morning.

Special Judge Frances Gull told the jury Wednesday that they would hear several hours of closing arguments. The judge told each side they would have up to 2 1/2 hours.

Both sides will only be able to talk about the evidence and testimony that was admitted during the trial, which means the defense team will not be allowed to bring up Odinism or any of the third-party suspects they claim actually committed the murders.

When closing arguments are over, the jury will be given instructions. If they have reasonable doubt, they are instructed to find Richard Allen not guilty. If they believe Allen committed the murders, they are instructed to find him guilty.

After that, it will be up to the jury.

Deliberations could take hours or days. The 12-member jury (three alternates excluded) must reach a unanimous verdict. If they are unable to do so, the trial could end in a mistrial.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

 

[jepop]

There’s a physical switch on the side of the phone that does this, and would be far more logical than digging out headphones and plugging them in luckily milliseconds after a call started coming in.

Water was in the port. Phone vibrated from the call. In the milliseconds thereafter, the water shifted enough from the vibration to affect the headphone sensor.

Just my opinion.

Makes perfect sense. I won't say it again after this but just wish the state had conveyed this confidently via a credible expert to the jury. The jury should on the totality of the strong circumstantial evidence (BG, video et. al) reach BARD imo. So...I may just be being a bit of a worry wart because the D ended on that expert witness and the state did not do a good job rebuffing her on cross. But given everything else, the jury will surely see that her testimony re an actual headphone being attached is not credible when applied to the situation of Libby's phone. Jmo

 

[Tealgrove]

When the jury are debating are they still able to ask the judge questions?

I don’t know about Indiana but they can ask a judge to help them sort out through the charges and law and if they need to review evidence they can ask for that. Not sure they can ask brand new questions about evidence. One of our lawyers here probably has a better answer than me.

 

[RemarkableYou]

Question: Can you explain that more so I have a better understanding - about the clearing part of it and all.

Absolutely. The headphones were disconnected at sometime after 10 how could that happen if it were condensation, water, dirt when people have to go to a forum to figure out how to clear the error? Or that it never clears.

 

[MiniMoo]

Absolutely. The headphones were disconnected at sometime after 10 how could that happen if it were condensation, water, dirt when people have to go to a forum to figure out how to clear the error? Or that it never clears.

So, are you saying it shouldn't have registered as disconnected at all unless it was actually being cleaned (dirt or water) at the time or the error cleared digitally online?

Not sure I'm getting that right.

 

[RemarkableYou]

So, are you saying it shouldn't have registered as disconnected at all unless it was actually being cleaned (dirt or water) at the time?

From what all the information that I've read has said what you are saying about it not disconnecting unless it were cleaned is right. Or even after cleaning it still may not show as disconnected.

 

[MassGuy]

Just heard from @BobSegallWTHR who is inside the #CarrollCounty courtroom.

The State used 58 minutes for its closing arguments. After a quick break, the Defense is up next.

Bob says he expects jury deliberation to begin this afternoon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854548673574703471

 

[Tortoise]

Just heard from @BobSegallWTHR who is inside the #CarrollCounty courtroom.

The State used 58 minutes for its closing arguments. After a quick break, the Defense is up next.

Bob says he expects jury deliberation to begin this afternoon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854548673574703471

Does the state have to split their time allowance to allow for a rebuttal argument?

 

[MassGuy]

dbm

 

[Tortoise]

From what all the information that I've read has said what you are saying about it not disconnecting unless it were cleaned is right. Or even after cleaning it still may not show as disconnected.

Maybe an ant or a tiny spider crawled in there and then decamped.

 

[Tortoise]

10:34 a.m. Closing Statements Begin.​

Before court begins, News 8’s Kyla Russell reports that defense attorney Andrew Baldwin writes “Rick” on a coffee cup and gives it to Allen. Normally Allen gets a coffee from the courthouse but today Baldwin has purchased one from a local shop.

At 8:47 a.m. Allen enters the room. Russell reports that he has a regular, large sized bible today and not the typical Gideon style bible he’s had in the past. He is heard saying he loves the coffee. He shows defense attorney Jennifer Auger a verse in his bible.

Prosecutor Stacey Diener is seen hugging the Germain and Williams family members. Abby’s mother is crying and being comforted by family.

At 9:04 a.m. Judge Gull enters the court room. The jury enters at 9:07. Court is in session.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

 

[justtrish]

Makes perfect sense. I won't say it again after this but just wish the state had conveyed this confidently via a credible expert to the jury. The jury should on the totality of the strong circumstantial evidence (BG, video et. al) reach BARD imo. So...I may just be being a bit of a worry wart because the D ended on that expert witness and the state did not do a good job rebuffing her on cross. But given everything else, the jury will surely see that her testimony re an actual headphone being attached is not credible when applied to the situation of Libby's phone. Jmo

Just because the defenses expert said this is what could have happened, doesn't mean it's reasonable to think that this is what did happened based on all the other information the jury has taken in over the last 3 weeks. I mean is it a reasonable possibility that one of the girls had headphones that they put in the phone while they lay there bleeding out? Is it reasonable that a killer would still be there hanging out OR leave and come back to do this headphone thing at the exact time an active search was going on for the girls? Was this headphone thing a possible scenario to explain what happened? Sure. Was this headphone thing a reasonable explanation when thinking about the phone being under one of the victims in the woods where an active search was happening? IMO Nope.

We miss a lot by not being in the court room or by not being able to see and listen for ourselves. Body language, order of questions, exact wording, etc. It is possible the state didn't feel they needed to clear anything up if the jury didn't seem to be buying what the defense was selling.

IMO

 

[MiniMoo]

From what all the information that I've read has said what you are saying about it not disconnecting unless it were cleaned is right. Or even after cleaning it still may not show as disconnected.

LE couldn't confirm if there was any water damage or dirt in it when asked.

Whoever did it - did things to misdirect and confuse with the branches on the bodies, the oversized clothes on Abby with a shoe and cell phone underneath her, one girl undressed/ one girl not, clothes in the creek right through to the possibility of a headphone being connected to Libby's cell phone.

All of which a killer would know!

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Arkay]

I like this, @mrjitty. “We can see the stage directions.”(I had to screenshot it because I have trouble in carrying posts to a new thread).

As someone who has graded thousands upon thousands of essays over 25 years, the rough drafts and then the final versions, I tend to think of the D’s Odinist fanfic as a rough draft that needed a lot of rewriting until it bore no resemblance to its original theme.

IMO, what else is there to believe when suddenly we have Hail Mary inventions——either a murderer (RA) who could escape but elected instead to insert a headphone into a jack, or else a teenager whose dying act was to ensure her headphone was properly inserted?

At this point the defense has apparently disposed of the entire original manuscript.

There have been multiple posts explicating the means by which our phones can be quirky when moist. Many of us have experienced this ourselves.

One would have to be clairvoyant to “see” some phantom human hand physically attaching headphones to a phone that is actually collateral damage from a gruesome, bloody murder.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Just because the defenses expert said this is what could have happened, doesn't mean it's reasonable to think that this is what did happened based on all the other information the jury has taken in over the last 3 weeks. I mean is it a reasonable possibility that one of the girls had headphones that they put in the phone while they lay there bleeding out? Is it reasonable that a killer would still be there hanging out OR leave and come back to do this headphone thing at the exact time an active search was going on for the girls? Was this headphone thing a possible scenario to explain what happened? Sure. Was this headphone thing a reasonable explanation when thinking about the phone being under one of the victims in the woods where an active search was happening? IMO Nope.

We miss a lot by not being in the court room or by not being able to see and listen for ourselves. Body language, order of questions, exact wording, etc. It is possible the state didn't feel they needed to clear anything up if the jury didn't seem to be buying what the defense was selling.

IMO

I think it’s not only unreasonable, but bordering on the insane.

It is excluded by evidence, precedent, and common sense.

 

[Spartygirl]

Let’s not forget the trail cams that were in the area. They’d have to avoid those as well, or be quite lucky.

JMO

Along with trying to avoid being seen by all the Searchers that were out there looking for Libby & Abby.

Nope-- this scenario just did not happen and it is just Rozzi trying to muddy the waters again, throwing $hit out to see what sticks.

JMO

 

[jepop]

Just because the defenses expert said this is what could have happened, doesn't mean it's reasonable to think that this is what did happened based on all the other information the jury has taken in over the last 3 weeks. I mean is it a reasonable possibility that one of the girls had headphones that they put in the phone while they lay there bleeding out? Is it reasonable that a killer would still be there hanging out OR leave and come back to do this headphone thing at the exact time an active search was going on for the girls? Was this headphone thing a possible scenario to explain what happened? Sure. Was this headphone thing a reasonable explanation when thinking about the phone being under one of the victims in the woods where an active search was happening? IMO Nope.

We miss a lot by not being in the court room or by not being able to see and listen for ourselves. Body language, order of questions, exact wording, etc. It is possible the state didn't feel they needed to clear anything up if the jury didn't seem to be buying what the defense was selling.

IMO

Yes, I don't disagree with you just think it would have been better if the state had cleared it up is all. But if wishes were fishes

 

[justtrish]

I think it’s not only unreasonable, but bordering on the insane.

It is excluded by evidence, precedent, and common sense.

Yes! Most of these defense theories of the case would require me to completely ignore common sense in order to make these leaps.