GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[Deleted member 349831]

There needs to be some form of regulations/restrictions put in place, especially for these so-called legal professional 'lawtubers' where IF they chose to use their experience in their field to educate the general public, they should do so in an unbiased and wholly accurate way, imo, as not only is the true crime community growing every day due to the likes of Netflix, TikTok, etc., you can only imagine how bad it's going to get during the Moscow trial; it's making it harder for LE, the courts, and the practicing professionals who have dedicated their lives to justice.

I haven't followed this trial too closely but watched yesterday's coverage of the verdict and was surprised to see the one lawtuber with his arm around Allen's wife as she walked out of the courthouse sputtering "this isn't over at all." Did not know some of these people were so closely involved. Wild.

 

[taylorss]

Maybe they couldn't focus heavily on our client is NG because they knew otherwise? I know they can still defend him, but maybe they couldn't outright say RA is not BG because they knew he was. That is always a possibility. He confessed to everyone else so maybe he also confessed to them. IMO

This is a great point..... tho tbh would be more likely if his attys had ever shown even a scrap of the integrity & professionalism that the legal profession & the American people count on to provide justice.

But the D attys were an absolute disgrace. The whole case has been a disgrace, & these clowns dragged it from the mud to the sewer. They are disgusting & its sad that even so many people on a "victim friendly" forum would fall for and / or parrot their verbal vomit
Imo

 

[mrjitty]

Honestly, some of this is nuts. I think there are way too many people (not necessarily here) that don't know what BARD is and actually means and refuse to even entertain anything other than their own personal opinion of it. RA was found unanimously guilty BARD by a jury who bore witness to so much more than we the public did.
Now we have lawyers (be it, not practicing) who claim to be legal professionals, with huge online platforms and reach, who are publicly snuggled up with a defence team spewing out unverified and inadmissible information, twisting narratives, and generally misleading the public to the point that we have people slamming on victims families and standing outside a courthouse screaming "we are all" the man who has just been found guilty of brutally murdering two little girls!
Yes, we've always had some who will disagree with verdicts/laws/the system, going back to the Bundy era, but it's becoming crazy now, imo! Yes, there are miscarriages of justice, no system is perfect, and fortunately those cases are miniscule compared to correct convictions; however, it's at the point now where in every large case/trial, there are people coming screaming INNOCENT regardless of the investigation, evidence, facts, or verdict. It's become a trendy thing to do and is being reinforced by so-called legal professionals who put out a bar so high that nobody would ever be convicted if it were accurate.
Since when did the true crime community become so naive, gullible, and downright disrespectful to not only the law but the victims of murder?! Since when did true crime become entertainment and a conspiracy?!
There needs to be some form of regulations/restrictions put in place, especially for these so-called legal professional 'lawtubers' where IF they chose to use their experience in their field to educate the general public, they should do so in an unbiased and wholly accurate way, imo, as not only is the true crime community growing every day due to the likes of Netflix, TikTok, etc., you can only imagine how bad it's going to get during the Moscow trial; it's making it harder for LE, the courts, and the practicing professionals who have dedicated their lives to justice.

Sorry for the essay, just had to get it off my chest, and where better than probably the only TC platform where law and justice are still accurately favoured over entertainment?

All MOO

100% agree. The following trends I find unethical and dangerous

• Attorneys personally vouching for a clients innocence even when they have no way to know this. The job is to be an advocate not an influencer! I understand the need to humanise your client like Rozzi did in his first ever media hit on this case, but as we see, the client then goes and tells everyone he is in fact guilty, or the body turns up in a shabby shallow grave and you've trashed the reputation of lawyers generally
• Intentionally misleading the public via official court documents - the rope will never not be insane to me
• attorneys who act as an unofficial media arm for prosecution or defence. IMO they either have to be officially on the defence team, and thus subject to the usual rules, or not working with them. This grey area just provides a way to skate around ethics rules ...
• ... e.g by working with online communities to create conspiracies - this is not ethical and goes against your oath to the court!
• Attorneys promoting conspiracies which destroy trust in institutions. it seems in every case now the D alleges the corrupt cops are in league with a crooked DA and/or rogue judge. When I went to school you'd get in huge trouble if you accused a local crown prosecutor of corruption without evidence and rightly so!
• ... i could go on but it's making me too mad. e,g how it came to be that you told the judge that your trusted consultant was actually an old friend who stopped by and stole the crime scene photos.

Sigh

MOO & 02

 

[mrjitty]

I haven't followed this trial too closely but watched yesterday's coverage of the verdict and was surprised to see the one lawtuber with his arm around Allen's wife as she walked out of the courthouse sputtering "this isn't over at all." Did not know some of these people were so closely involved. Wild.

right.

IMO you should then be regarded as being on team d officially and subject to the rules. I don't see how you can also claim to be an independent voice. There is a gag order.

 

[technicallymissing]

I haven't followed this trial too closely but watched yesterday's coverage of the verdict and was surprised to see the one lawtuber with his arm around Allen's wife as she walked out of the courthouse sputtering "this isn't over at all." Did not know some of these people were so closely involved. Wild.

Does anyone know who the woman Brad Rozzi walked out with is? I would’ve thought that was KA if she didn’t come a second after with BM, I’m not exactly sure what she looks like. Was it RA’s sister?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Was there any more video or audio from Libby's phone played during the trial? Any clarification exactly what Libby did with her phone and what happened to it?

 

[stemkb]

These meddlesome defense attorneys turned influencers with their massive online reach is another compelling reason for cameras in the courtroom. A direct feed. Unfiltered.

 

[INfisherman]

I have a theory that the defence damaged their own case with a poorly thought out, OTT trial strategy that prioritised BOOM motions for public consumption over getting useful evidence admitted at trial.

It is necessary to piece together a bit of background to explain this

In a recent interview with The Prosecutors, KG explained that the defence had been seeking to tap into a conspiracy theory involving the witness P. (link at approx 30 mins). The D called P as a witness at trial. P was on the Bridge with friends after the victims that day and saw and heard nothing.

However according to KG, there existed conspiracies against the person back in the early days of this case. According to MS's discord leaks relating to the Due Process gang, the D investigator tried to work with youtubers to develop this conspiracy using geofence evidence from the discovery which he allegedly showed to the youtubers.

Fast forward to 13 March 2004 and the remarkable "France III - The Geofence" gets filed with this claim

View attachment 544616
Now according to MS, para 9(c) is particularly disturbing as the D was obviously well aware these kids were not the killers. The prosecutor reacted strongly with the result beng that the geofence map got excluded from the case. Indeed as far as I am aware, at the 3 day hearing the D did not even bring a cellular / geofence expert to make their case for inclusion.

So the net result was that a the map which could have been a useful moment at trial for them got excluded because they made wild claims that they couldn't back up at the pre-trial hearing.

Now, I am not a huge fan of the Judge's skimpy ruling on Geofence but I do believe @m00c0w is correct that far from excluding all geofence/warrant/cast/phone evidence as repeatedly claimed by the Bob Motta, Lawyer Lee etc - the Judge actually just said what the law is anyway - the evidence could only come in if relevant and not misleading. And to my knowledge the D never tried to put any of that kind of evidence on the record at trial.

This feels like a huge blunder to me. They could have saved this to simply put this exhibit to the witness at trial, (state would object) or even call their own phone expert.

Instead they tried to do a back door SODDI against a witness who never was the killer based on conspiracies.

Very poor work IMO.

MOO

To add….

IMO, the P simply built a better story, in order, which was easier to understand. The D just came in with guns blazing but they were spinning in circles, shooting wildly & mostly missing their intended targets. I saw some flashes of good ideas here & there, but the complete picture just wasn’t there at all. They just didn’t seem to be organized & I feel that made their story more difficult to follow.

ETA first line, clarity

MOO

 

[Justice101]

I guess it’s time for me to move on from this case now that the trial is over and verdict delivered. Thanks to all for the lively discussion and debate

Yes, I am with you. Moving on now....

Justice was served and that is what matters.. it took way too long, but they eventually found the one responsible and convicted him.

 

[INfisherman]

Awww, nuts! I completely forgot to mention anything yesterday……

How about that ballistics expert for the state? Melissa Oberg remains perfect so far - 112-0.

I thought she did a great job of explaining herself & how she tested the guns & why she had to fire the rounds. Quite the strong witness for the state, IMO, compared to the utter tool the D put in the stand. Hope he enjoyed his vacation to Morocco.

 

[oviedo]

Was there any more video or audio from Libby's phone played during the trial? Any clarification exactly what Libby did with her phone and what happened to it?

Delphi double murder trial: Extended video from victim's phone played in court

A video filmed by 14-year-old victim Libby German on the day of her murder in Delphi, Indiana, was played for the jury on Tuesday.

abcnews.go.com

A video filmed by 14-year-old victim Libby German just before she was murdered in Delphi, Indiana, was played for the jury during Richard Allen's trial.

Allen is accused of killing Libby and 13-year-old Abby Williams while the best friends walked on a trail in their small town on the afternoon of Feb. 13, 2017.

A 30-second clip of the video -- played Tuesday during testimony from forensic examiner Brian Bunner -- showed Libby filming herself and Abby walking on the Monon High Bridge. At one point, the camera panned up, and no one was behind Abby. In a later shot, the video shows a man walking behind her.
Snipped
Later they played the 43 second video (same article)
—-
The phone was found under Abby with Libby’s shoe- no idea how she managed to get it there …
JMO

 

[BUF]

It is so good to see a GUILTY banner on this thread! ….so many years later

 

[INfisherman]

I love the way the residents turned out to go to the courthouse when the verdict was announced. Such support for the families!

The best of small town Indiana.

Preach, girl.

I had a difficult time focusing due to everyone being dressed the same. Just too many Carhartt jackets. It was as if BG, I’m sorry, RA (see what I did there?) was standing everywhere.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Honestly, some of this is nuts. I think there are way too many people (not necessarily here) that don't know what BARD is and actually means and refuse to even entertain anything other than their own personal opinion of it. RA was found unanimously guilty BARD by a jury who bore witness to so much more than we the public did.
Now we have lawyers (be it, not practicing) who claim to be legal professionals, with huge online platforms and reach, who are publicly snuggled up with a defence team spewing out unverified and inadmissible information, twisting narratives, and generally misleading the public to the point that we have people slamming on victims families and standing outside a courthouse screaming "we are all" the man who has just been found guilty of brutally murdering two little girls!
Yes, we've always had some who will disagree with verdicts/laws/the system, going back to the Bundy era, but it's becoming crazy now, imo! Yes, there are miscarriages of justice, no system is perfect, and fortunately those cases are miniscule compared to correct convictions; however, it's at the point now where in every large case/trial, there are people coming screaming INNOCENT regardless of the investigation, evidence, facts, or verdict. It's become a trendy thing to do and is being reinforced by so-called legal professionals who put out a bar so high that nobody would ever be convicted if it were accurate.
Since when did the true crime community become so naive, gullible, and downright disrespectful to not only the law but the victims of murder?! Since when did true crime become entertainment and a conspiracy?!
There needs to be some form of regulations/restrictions put in place, especially for these so-called legal professional 'lawtubers' where IF they chose to use their experience in their field to educate the general public, they should do so in an unbiased and wholly accurate way, imo, as not only is the true crime community growing every day due to the likes of Netflix, TikTok, etc., you can only imagine how bad it's going to get during the Moscow trial; it's making it harder for LE, the courts, and the practicing professionals who have dedicated their lives to justice.

Sorry for the essay, just had to get it off my chest, and where better than probably the only TC platform where law and justice are still accurately favoured over entertainment?

All MOO

I’m not so sure the TC community became anything, at least not the OG ones. I have a strong suspicion it was more like an infiltration. Those with an agenda became members & at every opportunity pushed their agenda(s), much like their idols, the defense team. They constantly tried to peck away at the judge & even the jury with little quips here & there. It just got to the point, for me at least, that it was predictable, worn out & just pathetic. They were more talented than that.

MOO

ETA - For clarity, idols would an include certain mouthpieces & SM influencers. Also MOO.

 

[justtrish]

I haven't followed this trial too closely but watched yesterday's coverage of the verdict and was surprised to see the one lawtuber with his arm around Allen's wife as she walked out of the courthouse sputtering "this isn't over at all." Did not know some of these people were so closely involved. Wild.

This doesn't surprise many of us here. We have been saying it's wrong for a long time. He was all up in this case and when messages he was a part of became public (due to one participant in the messages bringing the discussions to light) it was VERY clear that he was a mouthpiece for the defense even though there is a gag order. He called the judge a ratchet B and also spoke about the victims family members also. I don't care that he is siding with the defense here and I don't care if he's close with RA or his family. If he's THAT involved then he needs to be part of the gag order.

There is a difference in being a defense attorney that is ensuring your client is represented well and it's another thing to have a win at any and all costs mentality.

 

[tlcya]

I have seen exactly zero reports that the jury was hung over the weekend. IF a link is ever provided to support that allegation I would read it. My own belief was that they were reviewing the evidence, most probably and in particular, the police interviews and the evidence presented by both sides regarding the unspent round. JMO MOO

I am so very relieved for the families of the VICTIMS in this case (who btw do not include Richard Allen). I look forward to his sentencing. I hope that the families will now pursue civil action against those on the web who have defamed them, suggested one of them were responsible, and harassed the girls' loved ones for the past 7.5 years.

JUSTICE DELAYED WAS NOT JUSTICE DENIED!

 

[pseudo_hum]

This doesn't surprise many of us here. We have been saying it's wrong for a long time. He was all up in this case and when messages he was a part of became public (due to one participant in the messages bringing the discussions to light) it was VERY clear that he was a mouthpiece for the defense even though there is a gag order. He called the judge a ratchet B and also spoke about the victims family members also. I don't care that he is siding with the defense here and I don't care if he's close with RA or his family. If he's THAT involved then he needs to be part of the gag order.

There is a difference in being a defense attorney that is ensuring your client is represented well and it's another thing to have a win at any and all costs mentality.

Agreed, IMO, he is a real snake in the grass.

 

[IceIce9]

While I often don’t like DM articles, I do like the way this is stated

Wife of convicted Delphi murderer's response to guilty verdict

The wife of convicted Delphi murderer Richard Allen gave a chilling response after an Indiana jury unanimously declared he was guilty in the brutal killings of Liberty German and Abigail Williams,

www.dailymail.co.uk

It was Allen who put himself on the trail between 1.30 and 3.30pm, Allen who told investigators he had gone out onto Monon High Bridge, Allen who described the outfit he wore and Allen who made a string of prison confessions that included details that only the killer could have known.

 

[tlcya]

Sentencing is scheduled for Dec. 20. Allen faces up to 130 years in prison.
Richard Allen convicted in Delphi murder trial for killings of 2 teenage girls in Indiana

Allen will be sentenced Dec. 20. A gag order is in place until the sentencing, meaning Allen, lawyers, jurors, families, and witnesses will not be allowed to speak on the verdict.
[snip]
The jury wrapped up deliberations on Saturday after five hours.

At one point, the jury asked Richard Allen’s defense team for another look at some of the evidence they presented.

Special Judge Frances Gull said the evidence could only be displayed one time.

The court did not say what evidence the jury wanted to review.
'Thank God it's over': Reactions mixed after Richard Allen convicted in Delphi Murders

 

[ClearAhead]

Honestly, some of this is nuts. I think there are way too many people (not necessarily here) that don't know what BARD is and actually means and refuse to even entertain anything other than their own personal opinion of it. RA was found unanimously guilty BARD by a jury who bore witness to so much more than we the public did.
Now we have lawyers (be it, not practicing) who claim to be legal professionals, with huge online platforms and reach, who are publicly snuggled up with a defence team spewing out unverified and inadmissible information, twisting narratives, and generally misleading the public to the point that we have people slamming on victims families and standing outside a courthouse screaming "we are all" the man who has just been found guilty of brutally murdering two little girls!
Yes, we've always had some who will disagree with verdicts/laws/the system, going back to the Bundy era, but it's becoming crazy now, imo! Yes, there are miscarriages of justice, no system is perfect, and fortunately those cases are miniscule compared to correct convictions; however, it's at the point now where in every large case/trial, there are people coming screaming INNOCENT regardless of the investigation, evidence, facts, or verdict. It's become a trendy thing to do and is being reinforced by so-called legal professionals who put out a bar so high that nobody would ever be convicted if it were accurate.
Since when did the true crime community become so naive, gullible, and downright disrespectful to not only the law but the victims of murder?! Since when did true crime become entertainment and a conspiracy?!
There needs to be some form of regulations/restrictions put in place, especially for these so-called legal professional 'lawtubers' where IF they chose to use their experience in their field to educate the general public, they should do so in an unbiased and wholly accurate way, imo, as not only is the true crime community growing every day due to the likes of Netflix, TikTok, etc., you can only imagine how bad it's going to get during the Moscow trial; it's making it harder for LE, the courts, and the practicing professionals who have dedicated their lives to justice.

Sorry for the essay, just had to get it off my chest, and where better than probably the only TC platform where law and justice are still accurately favoured over entertainment?

All MOO

Excellent post!! Just wanted to repeat your words -

“Since when did the true crime community become so naive, gullible, and downright disrespectful to not only the law but the victims of murder?! Since when did true crime become entertainment and a conspiracy?!”

And since when did a disgusting, pathetic, violent creature named Richard Allen deserve to become a martyr? To a certain segment it’s as if they’ve sunk so low that there’s no line ever between inexcusable and explainable.

JMO