GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[Kittybunny]

As one of many posters who were here from Day 0, when this was just a case of two best friends who had gone missing on an unseasonably warm day, justice has been a long time coming, and a hard and contentious time it was.

This was an incredibly frustrating case to follow, for so many reasons that have been articulated by others more eloquently than I ever could. But personally I never had a doubt that Richard Allen is bridge guy and that bridge guy killed those girls. And I see that despite the verdict, the circular arguments still continue and probably will ad nauseum. But it’s time for me to get off this merry go round and know that Abby and Libby are truly at rest now. You did it Libby. You got him.

 

[Vern]

A video that's so blurry that you can't even recognise their face, and looks like 50% of the guys in Delphi, it could have been anyone. There's no GPS or phone data putting him on that bridge, none at all.

Respectfully snipped & broke down by me:

He put himself on that bridge in the clothing BG was wearing at the same time as the crimes. He stated he had his phone but had no gun. He lied. He had his gun but had no phone. He later showed guilty knowledge of the crime timeline by changing his timings. Irregardless, he put himself on the bridge at the time and date in question, so they do not need the GPS data.

The multiple confessions were strange, but if you lived a normal life for years and then were put in solitary confinement you could see how it would play with your head. He couldn't have been that sane if he ate his own feces. It's been known in the past that many people confess to crimes that they've never done due to many reasons. I don't have enough facts to comment about it but I hope more comes out about the case.

Yes, and interestingly, the testimony showed that he had to steel himself: paused and took a deep breath prior to drinking the toilet water ... exactly as an individual who was not in psychosis would do. Immediately reacted to his own eating of the feces with a, "Well I won't be doing that again". Once again, not the 'normal' reaction that an individual truely in psychosis would have. An individual in a state of psychosis would not realize the depths to which they had just sank, would think their actions were rational and normal ergo they would not need to "steel themselves" or say "never again".

He's never been convicted for any type of SA and reached mid life, don't you find that's a bit odd? I can understand how people had gotten away with it in the 90's, but with the digital data these days and DNA detection it makes it very difficult and a typical hallmark for these types of crimes is that the perpetrators work themselves up to these type of horrendous crimes.

Many, many crimes leave no DNA. Perhaps RA was a dreamer - a fantaziser if you will. Perhaps his fantasies finally got the better of him. Odd does not equal impossible. He was smart enough not to take his cell phone with him or to put it into airplane mode; that's all (and people certainly know about doing those things these days too). Certainly not a sign that he is innocent, rather the fact that he lied about having that phone infers a sign of guilt - why would an innocent man have to lie about that?? He wouldn't. Nor would that be the only phone they've owned in years and years be the only one they did not hoard with all their others. That fact right there tells me that phone had something on it that he didn't want found. You think it's not possible to be a fantasizer in this age of tech? Meh - people did it in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s 80s without tech etc so certainly not impossible.

I personally think they need to find more direct evidence to link him to the crime. For the sake of the children and the families involved, I hope it was it was him and him alone but if not the wrong people are still out there.

No they don't need more direct evidence. He's convicted. He's GUILTY. RA is the guy. Not my opinion, but a fact of law.

Abby & Libby have their justice and their families have their answers. Let them have some peace - finally.

 

[katydid23]

A video that's so blurry that you can't even recognise their face,

It's not about the face---It's about the clothing, the body type, the posture, the voice and the timing.

and looks like 50% of the guys in Delphi, it could have been anyone.

NO, it couldn't have been anyone except for those who were on the bridge with the girls. Which was narrowed down to one person---BG/RA

There's no GPS or phone data putting him on that bridge, none at all.

EXACTLY, which is odd considering he said he was on the bridge scrolling his phone for stock results.

The multiple confessions were strange, but if you lived a normal life for years and then were put in solitary confinement you could see how it would play with your head.

He would not make up all those details about his involvement if he was totally innocent. And he was not isolated. How could he be if he told dozens of different people about his crimes?

He saw his therapist very day. He had safe keepers standing at the door of his cell w24/7. He had his own tablet which could make phone calls. He went to shower and to exercise...He was not isolated from human contact.

He couldn't have been that sane if he ate his own feces.

He probably did have a few meltdowns but that does not mean he was never coherent or logical. My brother had psychotic fits when off his meds but he could still be sane and reasonable most of the time. Especially when meds were resumed.

It's been known in the past that many people confess to crimes that they've never done due to many reasons. I don't have enough facts to comment about it but I hope more comes out about the case.

Hard to ignore 60-plus confessions. Did you read the ones that were recorded? The one to his mother was very coherent and believable.


The call from May 17, 2023, was between Allen and his mother.

“Did Kathy tell you I did it?” Allen asked his mother.

“We’re not going to discuss this, okay?” his mother, Janis, replied. “We love you. You know that, don’t you?”

“Regardless?” Allen asked. “I’m just worried you guys aren’t going to love me because I said I did it.”

“Just saying it doesn’t mean you did it,” his mother said.

“It does when I did,” Allen replied.

“Ricky, they’re just messing with you,” she said.

“No, Mom, they’re not,” he said. “So if I said I did it, you wouldn’t love me anymore?”

“I will always love you no matter what. You can count on that,” his mother said.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/i-did-it-do-you-still-love-me-jurors-hear-allens-phone-call-confessions-in-delphi-murders-trial/

He's never been convicted for any type of SA and reached mid life, don't you find that's a bit odd?

Not odd when I read other things that helped explain it. He confessed to his therapist that he has had some twisted thoughts since he was abused himself, in early childhood. That kind of thing festers without getting some kind of help.

I think it built up and then when life circumstances triggered him, he had a meltdown.

I can understand how people had gotten away with it in the 90's, but with the digital data these days and DNA detection it makes it very difficult and a typical hallmark for these types of crimes is that the perpetrators work themselves up to these type of horrendous crimes.

There are so very many creepers that get away with a lot of hidden things that never are discovered for years.

I personally think they need to find more direct evidence to link him to the crime. For the sake of the children and the families involved, I hope it was it was him and him alone but if not the wrong people are still out there.

If it was him and he had help then I am glad that at least he has been locked up. And if he had accomplices, hopefully he will eventually throw them under the bus.

 

[Boxer]

I believe there is some conflating going on with a carrier geofence versus something like a Google geofence. I believe the “geofence” being discussed is going to be a product created by AT&T using their timing advance data. Essentially, it sounds to me like LE either asked AT&T to help or served them with a warrant that mandated them to help, and gave AT&T the coordinates of the crime scene and a general timeframe of the murders. AT&T returned data consisting of phones that could have been in that area based off of their TA data, but the range of uncertainty was so high that they actually could have been hundreds of meters away. These uncertainty values would have been provided by AT&T themselves, so it’s not like NM or someone else just made them up. And I believe what he was trying to get across is the data returned has such high margins of error that it wasn’t really probative. And regardless, it sounds like they identified the people actually using the phones and were able to alibi them or otherwise exclude them. Some of them seem to have been called at trial by the defense to testify about not having seen anything from the bridge.

This is just my speculation based off of the puzzle pieces littered throughout the pre-trial motions and hearings. I have not seen the relevant exhibits, so I don’t actually know what’s there.

Just my opinion.

Agree.

 

[k-mac]

The only thing that connects Allen to the scene of the crime is the unspent cartridge. The testing from the firearms expert isn't conclusive evidence that the bullet came from Allen's gun, there's a probability that it may have come from his gun but it's not 100% definite. The type of testing isn't common and it's been doubted by other experts before, it's not a perfect science. The eyewitnesses were all over the place, and unreliable as usual. There were many people in the park that day, many wouldn't come forward as they wouldn't want to associate themselves with this type of crime. The defence team was dispairing and it was all he could afford.

Couldnt disagree more.
The volume of evidence is substantial which clearly the jury agreed.
They seen all the evidence and convicted him. DONE.
Justice has been served

The witnesses all agreed when shown a pic of BG it was the man they seen.
All of them said so.(before RA was charged)
8 witnesses including RA.Thats alot.
RA told LE he passed those girls and corroborated the exchange happened.
So RA and the girls agree he is BG.
BG is the killer.
Captured by Libby pointing a gun and ordering the girls down the hill.

Now factually convicted a serial killer in a court of law. MAY HE ROT IN HELL.

moo

 

[oviedo]

It's not about the face---It's about the clothing, the body type, the posture, the voice and the timing.

NO, it couldn't have been anyone except for those who were on the bridge with the girls. Which was narrowed down to one person---BG/RA

EXACTLY, which is odd considering he said he was on the bridge scrolling his phone for stock results.

He would not make up all those details about his involvement if he was totally innocent. And he was not isolated. How could he be if he told dozens of different people about his crimes?

He saw his therapist very day. He had safe keepers standing at the door of his cell w24/7. He had his own tablet which could make phone calls. He went to shower and to exercise...He was not isolated from human contact.

He probably did have a few meltdowns but that does not mean he was never coherent or logical. My brother had psychotic fits when off his meds but he could still be sane and reasonable most of the time. Especially when meds were resumed.

Hard to ignore 60-plus confessions. Did you read the ones that were recorded? The one to his mother was very coherent and believable.


The call from May 17, 2023, was between Allen and his mother.

“Did Kathy tell you I did it?” Allen asked his mother.

“We’re not going to discuss this, okay?” his mother, Janis, replied. “We love you. You know that, don’t you?”

“Regardless?” Allen asked. “I’m just worried you guys aren’t going to love me because I said I did it.”

“Just saying it doesn’t mean you did it,” his mother said.

“It does when I did,” Allen replied.

“Ricky, they’re just messing with you,” she said.

“No, Mom, they’re not,” he said. “So if I said I did it, you wouldn’t love me anymore?”

“I will always love you no matter what. You can count on that,” his mother said.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/i-did-it-do-you-still-love-me-jurors-hear-allens-phone-call-confessions-in-delphi-murders-trial/

Not odd when I read other things that helped explain it. He confessed to his therapist that he has had some twisted thoughts since he was abused himself, in early childhood. That kind of thing festers without getting some kind of help.

I think it built up and then when life circumstances triggered him, he had a meltdown.

There are so very many creepers that get away with a lot of hidden things that never are discovered for years.

If it was him and he had help then I am glad that at least he has been locked up. And if he had accomplices, hopefully he will eventually throw them under the bus.

This post is excellent and should be used for anyone doubting this very true verdict - he did it and admitted to it many times and included details only the killer knew
Thank you @katydid23 for your post
JMO

 

[k-mac]

A video that's so blurry that you can't even recognise their face, and looks like 50% of the guys in Delphi, it could have been anyone. There's no GPS or phone data putting him on that bridge, none at all.

The multiple confessions were strange, but if you lived a normal life for years and then were put in solitary confinement you could see how it would play with your head. He couldn't have been that sane if he ate his own feces. It's been known in the past that many people confess to crimes that they've never done due to many reasons. I don't have enough facts to comment about it but I hope more comes out about the case.

He's never been convicted for any type of SA and reached mid life, don't you find that's a bit odd? I can understand how people had gotten away with it in the 90's, but with the digital data these days and DNA detection it makes it very difficult and a typical hallmark for these types of crimes is that the perpetrators work themselves up to these type of horrendous crimes.

I personally think they need to find more direct evidence to link him to the crime. For the sake of the children and the families involved, I hope it was it was him and him alone but if not the wrong people are still out there.

He knew things about the crime he let out in his confessions only the killer knew.

Coming forward to LE the day his pic was released to the public was a tell.
A little town like that..why hadnt he come forward and tell police he was there that day?? how can he help??
He knew his goose was cooked. Well ...lol it should have been.........

anyway....5 years later the incriminating admission from 2 days after the crime arrived on the correct department hot little hands.

It all came together quickly. As it does when its right.

 

[Boxer]

A video that's so blurry that you can't even recognise their face, and looks like 50% of the guys in Delphi, it could have been anyone. There's no GPS or phone data putting him on that bridge, none at all.

The multiple confessions were strange, but if you lived a normal life for years and then were put in solitary confinement you could see how it would play with your head. He couldn't have been that sane if he ate his own feces. It's been known in the past that many people confess to crimes that they've never done due to many reasons. I don't have enough facts to comment about it but I hope more comes out about the case.

He's never been convicted for any type of SA and reached mid life, don't you find that's a bit odd? I can understand how people had gotten away with it in the 90's, but with the digital data these days and DNA detection it makes it very difficult and a typical hallmark for these types of crimes is that the perpetrators work themselves up to these type of horrendous crimes.

I personally think they need to find more direct evidence to link him to the crime. For the sake of the children and the families involved, I hope it was it was him and him alone but if not the wrong people are still out there.

MOO its him. The timeline is solid. Criminals know not to leave DNA.

 

[m00c0w]

A video that's so blurry that you can't even recognise their face, and looks like 50% of the guys in Delphi, it could have been anyone. There's no GPS or phone data putting him on that bridge, none at all.

The multiple confessions were strange, but if you lived a normal life for years and then were put in solitary confinement you could see how it would play with your head. He couldn't have been that sane if he ate his own feces. It's been known in the past that many people confess to crimes that they've never done due to many reasons. I don't have enough facts to comment about it but I hope more comes out about the case.

He's never been convicted for any type of SA and reached mid life, don't you find that's a bit odd? I can understand how people had gotten away with it in the 90's, but with the digital data these days and DNA detection it makes it very difficult and a typical hallmark for these types of crimes is that the perpetrators work themselves up to these type of horrendous crimes.

I personally think they need to find more direct evidence to link him to the crime. For the sake of the children and the families involved, I hope it was it was him and him alone but if not the wrong people are still out there.

BBM

This is particularly problematic because he told police he was looking at stock tickers on his phone while walking the trails. If the phone isn’t in the tower dump… well… that’s what one calls a piece of circumstantial evidence.

JMO

 

[Gigiky]

Larry Nassar.
I also have personal knowledge, thankfully not from my own incarceration but someone I know well who is doing LWOP. Child molesters and murderers are pariahs. Inmates will try to keep these particular crimes to themselves to preserve their lives. But a high profile inmate such as RA in prison for the murders of Abby and Libby will not be able to hide.

And RA will be locked up with other inmates that have committed crimes as well. Inmates cant just go around in prisons exacting their own justice. They don't care what someone else has done. Does it happen. Yes. But not that often.

 

[k-mac]

BBM

This is particularly problematic because he told police he was looking at stock tickers on his phone while walking the trails. If the phone isn’t in the tower dump… well… that’s what one calls a piece of circumstantial evidence.

JMO

Not only that which is a very valid point.

More so....The very phone in question is......
**DUNNA-DUNN-AAAAHH*** (thats aussie accent FYI IN CASE IT SOUNDS WEIRD haha)


.....missing....

LE found every phone he ever owned in a collection except that one from 2017.

 

[Boxer]

He was also not on the trail during the altered timeline he gave at his second interview.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't believe the D team were precluded from entering any confessions. I do recall them throwing a hissy when the state didn't enter phone calls with RA in which he stated he had NOT killed the girls and the judge basically ruled the state wasn't required to and that the defense could move to enter those calls themselves if they wanted. To my knowledge they never did because they were unable to authenticate them (which i believe would require them to have someone from IDOC testify as to their authenticity similar to how the state had Harshman do with the calls he reviewed - something along those lines) MOO

That's what subpoenas are for. They could have been ready with witnesses and then played whatever phone calls they wanted with RA saying he was innocent or he felt crazy etc... seems like bad lawyering, no excuses. Did they real think the P wasn't going to choose some and not play all!?
ISP Harshman listening to every phone call. What, the defense couldn't recall him? Bad, incompetent lawyering, nobody to blame but themselves. AJMO

 

[mrjitty]

BBM

This is particularly problematic because he told police he was looking at stock tickers on his phone while walking the trails. If the phone isn’t in the tower dump… well… that’s what one calls a piece of circumstantial evidence.

JMO

This is why I think the latecomers have this all wrong because they didn't follow the flow of the hearings.

In my opinion, it isn't going to be enough on appeal simply to say "oh Judge Gull should have let in this geofence map". You have to show a real possibility it might have caused the jury to change their minds.

Unlike what some are suggesting, there is nowhere to my knowledge the D has claimed there is super secret tower evidence that has been excluded which is exculpatory - let alone relating to RA.

IMO as usual, the D employed a sleight of hand by not saying who these 3 phones belonged to. IMO we will learn they belonged to 2 of the witnesses they called, and the third is the boyfriend. So this changes nothing.

It's also notable, AFAIK, that nowhere did the D actually apply to have the geofence map introduced into evidence. So that might be a big problem for them on appeal.

MOO

 

[Andieinsyd]

Does anyone know about the appeals process? Who will be involved? If an appeal is successful, is it likely to be retried with the same DPP, same judge?

 

[Boxer]

As one of many posters who were here from Day 0, when this was just a case of two best friends who had gone missing on an unseasonably warm day, justice has been a long time coming, and a hard and contentious time it was.

This was an incredibly frustrating case to follow, for so many reasons that have been articulated by others more eloquently than I ever could. But personally I never had a doubt that Richard Allen is bridge guy and that bridge guy killed those girls. And I see that despite the verdict, the circular arguments still continue and probably will ad nauseum. But it’s time for me to get off this merry go round and know that Abby and Libby are truly at rest now. You did it Libby. You got him.

Agree.

 

[m00c0w]

This is why I think the latecomers have this all wrong because they didn't follow the flow of the hearings.

In my opinion, it isn't going to be enough on appeal simply to say "oh Judge Gull should have let in this geofence map". You have to show a real possibility it might have caused the jury to change their minds.

Unlike what some are suggesting, there is nowhere to my knowledge the D has claimed there is super secret tower evidence that has been excluded which is exculpatory - let alone relating to RA.

IMO as usual, the D employed a sleight of hand by not saying who these 3 phones belonged to. IMO we will learn they belonged to 2 of the witnesses they called, and the third is the boyfriend. So this changes nothing.

It's also notable, AFAIK, that nowhere did the D actually apply to have the geofence map introduced into evidence. So that might be a big problem for them on appeal.

MOO

Yes, the biggest issue will be that they never tried to get geofencing or tower data admitted as evidence in the trial, IMO. The motion in limine isn’t truly binding during trial, as many legal commentators pointed out. They can still make offers of proof, especially to preserve items for appeal. The only thing I’m aware of them trying to include is two third parties and Odinism. Appeal is gonna be a tough sell.

JMO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

As one of many posters who were here from Day 0, when this was just a case of two best friends who had gone missing on an unseasonably warm day, justice has been a long time coming, and a hard and contentious time it was.

This was an incredibly frustrating case to follow, for so many reasons that have been articulated by others more eloquently than I ever could. But personally I never had a doubt that Richard Allen is bridge guy and that bridge guy killed those girls. And I see that despite the verdict, the circular arguments still continue and probably will ad nauseum. But it’s time for me to get off this merry go round and know that Abby and Libby are truly at rest now. You did it Libby. You got him.

ITA! Remember people seeing a van in the trees? Good lord...

 

[pearl]

Who has to pay for an appeal of a criminal guilty verdict in IN? In my state, guilty verdicts get one appeal to the state Court of Appeals. If the convicted person was indigent for trial, he/she can be indigent for that one appeal. Anything after that is on the convicted person's dime and not the public. I personally do not think all the people who profess to believe RA not guilty will be lining up to contribute to those appeals. Action often speak louder than words.

 

[Jade]

The only thing that connects Allen to the scene of the crime is the unspent cartridge. The testing from the firearms expert isn't conclusive evidence that the bullet came from Allen's gun, there's a probability that it may have come from his gun but it's not 100% definite. The type of testing isn't common and it's been doubted by other experts before, it's not a perfect science. The eyewitnesses were all over the place, and unreliable as usual. There were many people in the park that day, many wouldn't come forward as they wouldn't want to associate themselves with this type of crime. The defence team was dispairing and it was all he could afford.

Here is the Abby and Libby media thread it seems you've missed quite a bit.

Thread 'IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION #2'

Feb 21, 2017

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION*


MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail

​

Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.

Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are...

• Coldpizza
• Replies: 677
• Forum: Located Timeline and Media Links

• 
• 

First of all Richard Allen connected himself to the scene of his own free will by contacting authorities and voluntarily meeting with the CO within days of the murders to admit he was at the park and bridge at the time of the crime.

[...]
Allen said he walked to the Freedom Bridge and then the Monon High Bridge.
[..]

Day 6 of the Delphi Murder Trial: A tip that put Richard Allen at the scene

DELPHI, Ind. (WLFI) - Witness testimonies continue on day six of Delphi for the Delphi double homicide trial.

www.wlfi.com

A video that's so blurry that you can't even recognise their face, and looks like 50% of the guys in Delphi, it could have been anyone. There's no GPS or phone data putting him on that bridge, none at all.

The multiple confessions were strange, but if you lived a normal life for years and then were put in solitary confinement you could see how it would play with your head. He couldn't have been that sane if he ate his own feces. It's been known in the past that many people confess to crimes that they've never done due to many reasons. I don't have enough facts to comment about it but I hope more comes out about the case.

He's never been convicted for any type of SA and reached mid life, don't you find that's a bit odd? I can understand how people had gotten away with it in the 90's, but with the digital data these days and DNA detection it makes it very difficult and a typical hallmark for these types of crimes is that the perpetrators work themselves up to these type of horrendous crimes.

I personally think they need to find more direct evidence to link him to the crime. For the sake of the children and the families involved, I hope it was it was him and him alone but if not the wrong people are still out there.

50% of the guys in Delphi who looked like RA didn't call the SO and meet to say they were at the bridge at the time of the crime nor was another one seen at the park or the bridge wearing bridge guy clothes with said persons cartridge mysteriously under the girl who had vanished seconds after being kidnapped by the self admitted to being on the bridge person who was also caught on Libby's video.

>>> snipped>>He's never been convicted for any type of SA and reached mid life, don't you find that's a bit odd? >>>

No, not at all. There is nothing that would keep him from being a criminal at that age.
The old joke used to be a middle age crisis for a male is an affair or a new sports car at that energetic fresh time of life.

RA’s extremely immature and inadequate, imo, so he’s probably slower getting to the point of achievement of his fantasies than a common pervert.

RA says he is very selfish so the thoughts of a more mature person in their late 40’s might cause hesitation but RA does what RA wants he doesn’t care who he hurts he did what he wanted.


RA had time, opportunity and motive at this point in his life to commit his crimes it’s as simple as that.


all imo