AB's Involvement ptII

How was AB involved?

  • Involved in the cover-up but not the murder

    Votes: 27 13.2%
  • Involved in both the cover-up and the murder

    Votes: 85 41.7%
  • Involved only by failure to stop any crime

    Votes: 11 5.4%
  • Not involved whatsoever

    Votes: 8 3.9%
  • I am completely undecided on the matter of AB's involvement

    Votes: 37 18.1%
  • Gross negligence and cover up of body.

    Votes: 45 22.1%

  • Total voters
    204
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WhyaDuck?

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Can of worms :waitasec: ?

This issue is about the only thing for me that clearly points to someone other than EB, and that would be AB. I don't know how much it could actually be discussed very much with what we have now though.

I am not terribly concerned with how much can be discussed or long the thread is, etc. It just might be nice to have a one-stop for that question, as a resource.
 

Allusonz

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There is some confusion about some of this, at least on my part. In the search warrant data it is reported the prosthetic was wrapped in a white trash bag and discarded by the two of them at the Fox Ridge Apartments. The defense motion states only the gel liner was found on Christie Road but the press reported the prosthetic as being found there.

My confusion is LE confirmed they found the prosthetic and matched the serial number - so where did they find it really? If true it was discarded to the dumpster, then it is highly unlikely it was found on Christie Road - hmmmm.

Did they find it? or was it retrieved by EB's lawyer?
 

NoeticSoul

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Townsville Bulletin News AU

(snipped)

"The shocking news devastated Adam and Karen, who had to hear the horrific news on the US evening news on Tuesday night.

Mrs Baker, who flew to North Carolina last month to be by Adam's side while the search continued for Zahra, cried on the phone yesterday as she tried to come to grips with the thought that her beloved granddaughter could have suffered even more before her brutal death.

``We had no idea that police were even investigating this possibility,'' Mrs Baker sobbed.

``It can't get any more horrific than this, surely ...

``The warrants apparently said that Zahra had been taken to a particular house a few days before Elisa reported her missing, and that she was sexually assaulted by two men.

``Adam just went white as a ghost and collapsed when he heard on the news ... he can't take much more.''

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/12/02/189011_news.html

BBM I'll bet he Did.
 

tehcloser

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I wonder if she commented about him helping dismember her????????????? Which reminds me of a question. Let's suppose there are other "men" involved and she was raped. And let's suppose these were considered "bad dudes", would Adam be afraid of them? Would that be a reason he would help dispose of her?
 

raisincharlie

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Townsville Bulletin News AU

(snipped)

"The shocking news devastated Adam and Karen, who had to hear the horrific news on the US evening news on Tuesday night.

Mrs Baker, who flew to North Carolina last month to be by Adam's side while the search continued for Zahra, cried on the phone yesterday as she tried to come to grips with the thought that her beloved granddaughter could have suffered even more before her brutal death.

``We had no idea that police were even investigating this possibility,'' Mrs Baker sobbed.

``It can't get any more horrific than this, surely ...

``The warrants apparently said that Zahra had been taken to a particular house a few days before Elisa reported her missing, and that she was sexually assaulted by two men.

``Adam just went white as a ghost and collapsed when he heard on the news ... he can't take much more.''

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/12/02/189011_news.html

BBM I'll bet he Did.

I might also turn white as a ghost and collapse were there search warrants stating I had helped to dismember a child and then took the parts here there and yonder. Never mind, KB wasn't talking about that part...:D
 

TorisMom003

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Townsville Bulletin News AU

(snipped)

"The shocking news devastated Adam and Karen, who had to hear the horrific news on the US evening news on Tuesday night.

Mrs Baker, who flew to North Carolina last month to be by Adam's side while the search continued for Zahra, cried on the phone yesterday as she tried to come to grips with the thought that her beloved granddaughter could have suffered even more before her brutal death.

``We had no idea that police were even investigating this possibility,'' Mrs Baker sobbed.

``It can't get any more horrific than this, surely ...

``The warrants apparently said that Zahra had been taken to a particular house a few days before Elisa reported her missing, and that she was sexually assaulted by two men.

``Adam just went white as a ghost and collapsed when he heard on the news ... he can't take much more.''

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/12/02/189011_news.html

BBM I'll bet he Did.

Karen may want to rethink that statement about Elisa reporting Zahra missing.....that was all Adam that did that. I guess Adam has lied to his mom and she hasn't bothered to listen to the 911 call. Seems to me that someone needs to open her eyes and look at what is staring her in the face.
 

cyberborg

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Karen may want to rethink that statement about Elisa reporting Zahra missing.....that was all Adam that did that. I guess Adam has lied to his mom and she hasn't bothered to listen to the 911 call. Seems to me that someone needs to open her eyes and look at what is staring her in the face.

She is probably desperately trying to 'detach' from the facts as they are reported and blame it all on EB ... as if AB was never there. Subconsciously she probably fears the worst and AB's direct involvement and even has knowledge of inconsistencies from AB but ... does not want to give any credence to any of it.
 

myzzy

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With what is released so far in the warrants, i would that that LE is looking at AB as a suspect in the rape, murder, disposal of ZB, then wouldnt they be wanting warrants for his social networks? From what i can see its all directed towards EB and her networks, I would assume that if they thought both of them did this then his accounts could hold possible clues or discussions ect same as EB;s accounts?

I believe at this point the finger is getting further and further away from AB and i think its possible his only crime was stupidity, Not to say he shouldnt or wont be charged with neglect of some sort if he is not involved
 

TorisMom003

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You may be right Cyber. But how is that helping her deal with this? How is it helping get justice for Zahra? I know that I would want to know exactly what happened to my child/grandchild. When a child is killed like this wouldn't the family want to know the details? If the child had to endure this wouldn't the family want to know about it? I just see so many denials that it makes me mad. Zahra had very few people that really cared about her (apparently) when she was alive, the kind that cared enough to do whatever was needed to protect her. Now in her death those people that says they cared should care enough to hear and deal with the truth.

MOO
 

bellyup

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With what is released so far in the warrants, i would that that LE is looking at AB as a suspect in the rape, murder, disposal of ZB, then wouldnt they be wanting warrants for his social networks? From what i can see its all directed towards EB and her networks, I would assume that if they thought both of them did this then his accounts could hold possible clues or discussions ect same as EB;s accounts?

I believe at this point the finger is getting further and further away from AB and i think its possible his only crime was stupidity, Not to say he shouldnt or wont be charged with neglect of some sort if he is not involved

I agree with this (no surprise).
I am leaning more and more toward AB being clueless.... HOWEVER, there is one thing I can't remove myself from. EB is MORE than happy to blame anyone but herself. So if these alleged rapes occurred and it led to to Zahra's demise ... why would she not be pointing the finger in that direction rather than pointing at AB ?
It would mean her loyalties are to SY and JY and that's she's protecting them over AB ?
Either way it would absolve her of any major wrong doing.

ETA: OR this could have been a way to get rid of Zahra AND AB ....... so that she could be with her new "love". Ligh tbulb moment. Frame AB for the entire thing and he's out of the picture too. No need for a divorce just go ahead and marry SY.
 

LCoastMom

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Townsville Bulletin News AU

(snipped)

"The shocking news devastated Adam and Karen, who had to hear the horrific news on the US evening news on Tuesday night.

Mrs Baker, who flew to North Carolina last month to be by Adam's side while the search continued for Zahra, cried on the phone yesterday as she tried to come to grips with the thought that her beloved granddaughter could have suffered even more before her brutal death.

``We had no idea that police were even investigating this possibility,'' Mrs Baker sobbed.

``It can't get any more horrific than this, surely ...

``The warrants apparently said that Zahra had been taken to a particular house a few days before Elisa reported her missing, and that she was sexually assaulted by two men.

``Adam just went white as a ghost and collapsed when he heard on the news ... he can't take much more.''

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/12/02/189011_news.html

BBM I'll bet he Did.

IDK what the deal is with the warrants not including AB, unless they are still sealed, but hearing that KB and AB learned this news via the media, speaks volumes about how LE views him and possibly her too.

Informing victims relatives (AKA victims) is just common courtesy. Something that LE would not concern themselves with if AB is a suspect.

So I'm not seeing lack of naming AB in the warrants, as being good news for the Bakers.
 

believe09

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With what is released so far in the warrants, i would that that LE is looking at AB as a suspect in the rape, murder, disposal of ZB, then wouldnt they be wanting warrants for his social networks? From what i can see its all directed towards EB and her networks, I would assume that if they thought both of them did this then his accounts could hold possible clues or discussions ect same as EB;s accounts?

I believe at this point the finger is getting further and further away from AB and i think its possible his only crime was stupidity, Not to say he shouldnt or wont be charged with neglect of some sort if he is not involved

I am convinced that they did not release all of the warrants. Think about it-IF at least one of the two men passed a LDT, then the chances are pretty good he is crossed off the list. (Meaning those who passed.) So NBD if that warrant is released.

We do not see any warrants directly related to AB, but for sure they are out there.
 

believe09

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Let's think about the notification process-what if LE wanted to observe the reaction? They could not have notified KB without AB being notified as well. What if they tapped the phones, GPS'd the car, bugged the house? They know AB's actual reaction to the news. KB may be blind to some extent, or she is protecting her young.

If you believe AB is involved. Which I believe, JMVHO.
 

Mountain_Kat

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I am convinced that they did not release all of the warrants. Think about it-IF at least one of the two men passed a LDT, then the chances are pretty good he is crossed off the list. (Meaning those who passed.) So NBD if that warrant is released.

We do not see any warrants directly related to AB, but for sure they are out there.

Well, there's the sw for AB's cell phone and cell phone records. There's the sw for the "company vehicle" AB drove. And there are various search warrants for the home he shared with EB. All of these might be applied to AB, imo.
 

CPP

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From the beginning I believed it impossible for AB not to have known about EB's torture of Zahara. Unless, of course, his head were encased in cement and he was blind in both eyes. I also believed he was involved in her death / the coverup when I read that the cadaver dogs hit on "both" cars. Lastly, I've been rather caught up in my own personal drama and hadn't really listened to the 911 tape. When I did, I was appalled at his detachment. He might as well have been calling Dominoes to order pizza. Then he mentioned Zahra and puberty and alarms went off for me. She's only 10, why would a father bring up his child's sexual development at a time when she's gone missing?? I know I seemed a bit callous last week when I posted she was sexually abused by AB. But that is what prompted it. Allegations about 2 other men notwithstanding, nothing has changed my opinion. If the assault took place at another residence, why dispose of the mattress at the Hickory house?? I shudder to think whose DNA they recover from it. Worse yet, my heart breaks for little Zahra and the Hell-on-Earth she endured at the hands of these people.
 

drivinmebonkers

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Well, there's the sw for AB's cell phone and cell phone records. There's the sw for the "company vehicle" AB drove. And there are various search warrants for the home he shared with EB. All of these might be applied to AB, imo.

I personally think AB should be "suspect" as well and his Email Accounts and Myspace/Facebook should be mentioned in the warrants as well. Maybe, they have looked at them, but he has plenty of time to erase and delete stuff, where Elisa didn't.

He is just as much a suspect as EB IMO.
 

LCoastMom

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I am convinced that they did not release all of the warrants. Think about it-IF at least one of the two men passed a LDT, then the chances are pretty good he is crossed off the list. (Meaning those who passed.) So NBD if that warrant is released.

We do not see any warrants directly related to AB, but for sure they are out there.

Just before coming here last night I read the news report saying there were 13 warrants not released - by the time I read the first new thread it was learned that in fact 11 warrants had been released. For sure that left 2 known warrants (over 30 days old) still sealed - plus however many newer than 30 days old.
 

DLT88

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Townsville Bulletin News AU

(snipped)

"The shocking news devastated Adam and Karen, who had to hear the horrific news on the US evening news on Tuesday night.

Mrs Baker, who flew to North Carolina last month to be by Adam's side while the search continued for Zahra, cried on the phone yesterday as she tried to come to grips with the thought that her beloved granddaughter could have suffered even more before her brutal death.

``We had no idea that police were even investigating this possibility,'' Mrs Baker sobbed.

``It can't get any more horrific than this, surely ...

``The warrants apparently said that Zahra had been taken to a particular house a few days before Elisa reported her missing, and that she was sexually assaulted by two men.

``Adam just went white as a ghost and collapsed when he heard on the news ... he can't take much more.''

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/12/02/189011_news.html

BBM I'll bet he Did.

If it is the truth that Adam knew nothing about this arranged 'gang rape' of his child, WHY would he help EB dispose of the body? Just WHAT did he think she died from that he felt he had to help in the cover-up??? If it's true he wrapped up the prosthetic and threw it out, he KNEW there was a murder or something that needed to be covered up. Protecting EB and not wanting to lose her could be a reason as someone else posted. Oy, but still!

Also, if he didn't know about this horrific crime, and Zahra was brought back home by EB and put into her bed -- where she continued to bleed onto her mattress -- is "Zahra started her period" the explanation EB gave her naive (if he truly is) husband when they had to get rid of the mattress?? Is that why he goofily chuckled over his "puberty" comment on the 911 call? I just think AB thinks so differently from most people and that's why he is so hard to figure out.
 

myzzy

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I agree with this (no surprise).
I am leaning more and more toward AB being clueless.... HOWEVER, there is one thing I can't remove myself from. EB is MORE than happy to blame anyone but herself. So if these alleged rapes occurred and it led to to Zahra's demise ... why would she not be pointing the finger in that direction rather than pointing at AB ?
It would mean her loyalties are to SY and JY and that's she's protecting them over AB ?
Either way it would absolve her of any major wrong doing.

ETA: OR this could have been a way to get rid of Zahra AND AB ....... so that she could be with her new "love". Ligh tbulb moment. Frame AB for the entire thing and he's out of the picture too. No need for a divorce just go ahead and marry SY.

BBM - Its possible she blamed him in her own mind for the end result ( not the actual crime) Its almost a cerain we are missing key information that would without a doubt point the finger in the right direction but without ALL the information we are only left to speculate and piece things together how we think they fit.

What if ( far fetch scenario) AB had a affair, gets caught and EB decided to get even one way or another and through turn of events she runs to the cousins with ZB and then leaves ZB with them to get drugs or is passed out high when the rape and murder take place (EB states We really didnt kill her).

The cousins force EB to help them dismember poor ZB to dispose of the remains and they plan out how EB is to report ZB missing, all along AB is played as a puppet and had nothing to do with it but because the house is shared, the wife is the culprit, his contridictions to EBs story ect, making things not jive and he is then looking very guilty. I could see some woman being so vindictive that they would do something like this, whos to say EB is not this type of person?

NOT saying this is what happened just another twist of possibilitys

IDK what the deal is with the warrants not including AB, unless they are still sealed, but hearing that KB and AB learned this news via the media, speaks volumes about how LE views him and possibly her too.

Informing victims relatives (AKA victims) is just common courtesy. Something that LE would not concern themselves with if AB is a suspect.

So I'm not seeing lack of naming AB in the warrants, as being good news for the Bakers.

Its possible they knew the jist of it but not the full details layed out in the warrants or knew and it being in black and white was the "shock"


I am convinced that they did not release all of the warrants. Think about it-IF at least one of the two men passed a LDT, then the chances are pretty good he is crossed off the list. (Meaning those who passed.) So NBD if that warrant is released.

We do not see any warrants directly related to AB, but for sure they are out there.

Why would LE knowingly allow their names to be made public if they are innocent? Publicly outing someone as a child rapist ( even if its a allegation) would be very reckless and damning to LE and the named person.

Way to many "IFs" in this case and way to many missing details.
 

newone

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If it is the truth that Adam knew nothing about this arranged 'gang rape' of his child, WHY would he help EB dispose of the body? Just WHAT did he think she died from that he felt he had to help in the cover-up??? If it's true he wrapped up the prosthetic and threw it out, he KNEW there was a murder or something that needed to be covered up. Protecting EB and not wanting to lose her could be a reason as someone else posted. Oy, but still!

Also, if he didn't know about this horrific crime, and Zahra was brought back home by EB and put into her bed -- where she continued to bleed onto her mattress -- is "Zahra started her period" the explanation EB gave her naive (if he truly is) husband when they had to get rid of the mattress?? Is that why he goofily chuckled over his "puberty" comment on the 911 call? I just think AB thinks so differently from most people and that's why he is so hard to figure out.


bbm

I believe EB was counting on the ''awkwardness'' of the coming of age possibility with AB and that's why he was referring to broodiness in his telephone conversation. It would be fairly easy for EB to say -- she's got cramps etc and needs a nap leaver her alone. Fairly easy to dupe him on that count. I just haven't figured out the rest of the heinous acts.
 
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