Accountability of Caylee

[Woe.be.gone]

I wish the above info could be posted on the June 7 date and the June 15 date as well.

I do not think it was an honest mistake on CA's part. My feeling is that it was a contrived date.

Now if we could only figure out the reason why.

 

[SuziQ]

I think we could drive ourselves nuts by overthinking things. JMO, IMO, etc etc

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think we could drive ourselves nuts by overthinking things. JMO, IMO, etc etc

Trust me, I'm on the verge. It's important because CA set the tone for the confusion over the timeline to begin with. CA has and continues to confuse things. It bothers me and keeps me wondering about her and if she had/has a specific M.O. for deflecting from the actual weekend that Caylee was last seen.

Just as it's hard for most people to believe that a mother could/does harm her child, it's equally hard to consider a grandmother could have been involved in some way. It is not impossible though and CA has acted in a way to bring suspicion her own way imo.

I'm not overthinking it. I want to know why CA confidently stated the wrong "last saw Caylee" date. When I ask a question, I would like to be able to understand the answer or I haven't learned anything. (which is why I needed a tutor in mathmatics throughout college - ha!)

SusiQ, I just noticed the words under your name. What gives?

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

...Caylee in the Florida heat would have died the first time Casey tried that stunt...

snipped and bold by me

Then, perhaps, this was the first time...

Although I tend to think she put the baby in the trunk the night Cindy supposedly 'called' for Cayle to be brought home. I think KC was with Ricardo that night.

So, maybe it was the 2nd time she did it...

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

I have studied the texts, interviews and pings and can say that when Caylee was not with Cindy... she was with Casey and her friends testified to that...

- snipped -

Thank you for doing the footwork.

However, I don't think we can account for every minute of KC and Caylee's actions over the last month (or more) of Caylee's life. It would be impossible to know if KC locked Caylee in the trunk for 15 minutes here and there.

If we knew about all of her time, then we could and should fill in the missing details for the state of Florida because I don't think they can do that at this point. We can come close, but we can't be sure.

...Can you find some links and use the timeline to show me specfically what dates/times Caylee was in the trunk one or two times?...

- snipped -

No, sorry I can't. I don't have the kind of brain that would allow me to do detective work like that, lol. I have 'mommy brain' most of the time, so no patience either.

But, I still contend there might have been brief occasions here or there where KC needed a quick, reliable nanny.

We can't be sure, but it seems likely to me.

 

[leemarie85]

I wish the above info could be posted on the June 7 date and the June 15 date as well.

I do not think it was an honest mistake on CA's part. My feeling is that it was a contrived date.

Now if we could only figure out the reason why.

Perhaps Casey and Caylee were gone a lot during the week of 6/7 thru 6/14, and Cindy had forgotten about the visit on 6/15 to Mt. Dora? IIRC, JG had said in his interview with LE re: alleged CA/KC fight that CA was angry because KC and Caylee had been gone and not coming around. I believe that at some point on 6/15, CA asked Caylee some ?s about what she and KC had been doing that week, and didn't like what she found out. I'm confusing myself now, LOL, and need to go back to pings for the week of 6/7 thru 6/14:bang:

 

[Spangle]

- snipped -

Thank you for doing the footwork.

However, I don't think we can account for every minute of KC and Caylee's actions over the last month (or more) of Caylee's life. It would be impossible to know if KC locked Caylee in the trunk for 15 minutes here and there.

If we knew about all of her time, then we could and should fill in the missing details for the state of Florida because I don't think they can do that at this point. We can come close, but we can't be sure.



- snipped -

No, sorry I can't. I don't have the kind of brain that would allow me to do detective work like that, lol. I have 'mommy brain' most of the time, so no patience either.

But, I still contend there might have been brief occasions here or there where KC needed a quick, reliable nanny.

We can't be sure, but it seems likely to me.

If she locked her in the trunk for 15 minutes here or there, Caylee would be afraid of the car. She would have issues with her Mother.

Also, I don't think you understand. Not even 15 minutes can a person be left in the car with the windows up, much less the trunk. We are talking June, that would be hot, hot, hot, before she even got in.

WE hear reports down here of babies dying that way. Kids left in the car and the parents forgot they where there. Kids left on childcare transportation that have died. We are reminded again and again not to leave children/pets in autos during the summer. Not even for 5 minutes. They show how quick it gets hot enough to start cooking the brain.

And that is leaving the kid/pet in the part that has a/c.. that would be 'cool' when left. A trunk isn't cooled by the a/c. IT would be hot from the get go.

If this is what she did, then she wouldn't have any excuse for 'not knowing' of the dangers. Most folks wouldn't consider it an accident. But equal to poison.

This would never be a 'quick reliable Nanny' solution.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

If she locked her in the trunk for 15 minutes here or there, Caylee would be afraid of the car...

...This would never be a 'quick reliable Nanny' solution.

- snipped -

Unless, she only did it once.

Don't get me wrong, I think KC is evil. Period. No one wants to see her hang more than I do. Believe me on that one.

But, I think she is so stupid she thought she had come up with a way to get rid of Caylee for a while without really finding a babysitter.

 

[ibyoungr]

If she locked her in the trunk for 15 minutes here or there, Caylee would be afraid of the car. She would have issues with her Mother.

Also, I don't think you understand. Not even 15 minutes can a person be left in the car with the windows up, much less the trunk. We are talking June, that would be hot, hot, hot, before she even got in.

WE hear reports down here of babies dying that way. Kids left in the car and the parents forgot they where there. Kids left on childcare transportation that have died. We are reminded again and again not to leave children/pets in autos during the summer. Not even for 5 minutes. They show how quick it gets hot enough to start cooking the brain.

And that is leaving the kid/pet in the part that has a/c.. that would be 'cool' when left. A trunk isn't cooled by the a/c. IT would be hot from the get go.

If this is what she did, then she wouldn't have any excuse for 'not knowing' of the dangers. Most folks wouldn't consider it an accident. But equal to poison.

This would never be a 'quick reliable Nanny' solution.

ITA...With the computer forensics, pings etc.. I will stick to my thought that Caylee died in the home and was put in the trunk the first time after she died.
Caylee did not have shoes on which would tell me that she did not leave that house alive.
Casey did not need that trunk as a babysitter. Cindy was available and watching Caylee.

As far as the Ricardo night goes... that did not happen in May of 2008. He stated in his interview... that it was "while they were still dating," which would have been before Mid-April. My ping summaries address this.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

ITA...With the computer forensics, pings etc.. I will stick to my thought that Caylee died in the home and was put in the trunk the first time after she died.
Caylee did not have shoes on which would tell me that she did not leave that house alive.
Casey did not need that trunk as a babysitter. Cindy was available and watching Caylee.

As far as the Ricardo night goes... that did not happen in May of 2008. He stated in his interview... that it was "while they were still dating," which would have been before Mid-April. My ping summaries address this.

But, here is what bothers me: Why would she make up having a nanny at all if she didn't need to make excuses to someone (anyone) about the true location of Caylee? I am talking about before Caylee went missing, not after.

Also, why the duct tape? If she was not trying to keep her quiet somewhere, then why tape her mouth?

Also, could you please post a link to your ping summary? I would like to get a good grip on where she was and when...I just get sooo confused when I try to piece it all together on my own. (I told you - mommy brain, lol.) Thanks bunches

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

Last 911 call (2nd call from the house) on July 15,2008. Can be read/listened to in the Official Docs. thread, Pg. 6, Post #134.


CA - I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her, her mother finally admitted that she's been missing.

CA - ... And my daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her.

CA - That the babysitter took her a month ago. The daugh... my daughter's been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can't find my granddaughter. And she just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself.

OP - How long has she been missing for?

CA - I HAVE NOT SEEN HER SINCE THE 7th OF JUNE.


Then KC speaks -

CMA - My daughters been missing for the last thirty-one days.

OP - And you last saw her a month ago?

CMA - Thirty-one days. It's been thirty-one days.


When you count back a month from July 15 you arrive at the date June 15.
Four weeks = June 17.

If you count forward a month from June 7 you arrive at July 7.
Four weeks = July 5.

CA's account leaves one week and two days unaccounted for.

WHY WOULD CA NOT ACCOUNT FOR THIS WEEK? We know there is evidence to the contrary.

KC tells the operator that she has not seen Caylee for 31 days. When counting back 31 days from July 15 you arrive at the date June 14.

Why is there a broad discrepancy here?

All the people who say that KC was the one who first said the date of June 8, please provide the reference for that prior to CA's 911 call. I know that KC wrote the date of June 9 on her testimony. But she was not the one who put the date out there. So now we go from June 7 to June 9 just because it fits with "On Monday I dropped . . . .".

I'm desparate for a believable explanation regarding CA's discrepancy. I don't care how CA's voice sounded, etc. Why did she put out a false date in the first place? CA was clearly the person in charge during the 911 call. Read, better yet, go back and listen to the certainty in her voice when she states the date "June 7" as the last day she saw Caylee. If there wasn't any evidence to the contrary, I'd have no reason to doubt her. Except CA keeps throwing around "a month". Did CA ever learn the calendar, ever learn to count? If she did, she forgot.

CA DOES NOT STATE THAT SHE 'THINKS' THE LAST TIME WAS .....

Woe. I admire the work you all have done on this thread. The only thing I can add is that SP said she was the first one that got the dates mixed up and first mentioned the 8th. I do not know if she relayed that info to Cindy or not. Her interview can be read here. http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/06 Shirley Plesea Transcript.pdf

I hope that helps, although I did not mind at all re-reading her interview, I love that woman. lol

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Woe. I admire the work you all have done on this thread. The only thing I can add is that SP said she was the first one that got the dates mixed up and first mentioned the 8th. I do not know if she relayed that info to Cindy or not. Her interview can be read here. http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/06 Shirley Plesea Transcript.pdf

I hope that helps, although I did not mind at all re-reading her interview, I love that woman. lol

No, noone else said the date of June 7 before CA did. CA said it first as I wrote in my post. CA told the 911 operator she last saw Caylee on June 7. She said it during the second 911 call from her house. From that report everyone else involved followed suit and the missing date became June 8 or 9 - I can't keep all their lies straight.

Cindy was the first person to name the date and she said June 7. I guess SP went along with what her daughter said without checking the facts the way the rest of them did.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

No, noone else said the date of June 7 before CA did. CA said it first as I wrote in my post. CA told the 911 operator she last saw Caylee on June 7. She said it during the second 911 call from her house. From that report everyone else involved followed suit and the missing date became June 8 or 9 - I can't keep all their lies straight.

Cindy was the first person to name the date and she said June 7. I guess SP went along with what her daughter said without checking the facts the way the rest of them did.

Sorry, I couldn't help. Actually I was looking for the interview where LE was working on her fuse box...to get the electricity back on, because she said she was the cause of the confusion, but my husband is ill and I haven't had time to look for it. It was in SP interview with YM.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Sorry, I couldn't help. Actually I was looking for the interview where LE was working on her fuse box...to get the electricity back on, because she said she was the cause of the confusion, but my husband is ill and I haven't had time to look for it. It was in SP interview with YM.

I remember that interview, not all the details of course.

I don't think CA called SP between 911 calls, after she had found KC, to ask her when she last visited Mr. Dora. Plus I remember SP knew it had been Father's Day because she said it made for a nice one for Alex.

I guess what I am saying is, I have looked at this wrong date feature of the case enough therefore, NOONE CAN CONVINCE ME that the wrong date was an honest mistake on CA's part.

Hope your hubby is feeling better.

 

[ibyoungr]

Per Clint House's statement. Caylee was with her mom on June 13th. Clint was a roommate with Tony at the time.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4884388/Casey-Anthony-Roy-Clinton-House-written-statement

 

[TallyHo]

June 5th Cindy's Birthday
Casey wakes up at the Anthony home after a long night before. Troy’s actual birthday party… strip club with Amy, Ric and Troy… no Casey.
7:12 AM Tony texts Casey
7:22 AM Tony texts Casey 49 minute break.. Is Caylee awake?
8:11 AM Tony texts Casey. Casey does not respond to his text. 70 minute break (Caylee time?)9:21 AM Rick texts Casey
9:36 AM Casey texts Tony
9:36 – 10:40 AM For the next hour, Casey is keeping both Tony and Ric..texting her…
10:40 AM Casey calls Ric
10:41 AM Casey texts Tony
10:42 AM Tony calls Casey and talks for 19 minutes.. 69 minute break..
Casey is probably showering and getting ready for “work” and leaving while Cindy watches Caylee for the day. Cindy watched Caylee this week.
11:44 – 11:50 AM Casey calls Tony while she is near Ricardo’s apt. Casey is also texting Ric which would mean he is at work. He stated in his interview that he works from 11 AM to 8 PM.58 minutes go by with no phone activity. She is near the Amscot… Tony is not in class this week.
June 5th around noon.. Casey is on her way to Tony’s
12:49 PM Casey gets a VM message while she is pinging at or near Tony’s
1:02 PM Casey gets a Yahoo msg.
1:28 PM Casey calls Casey
1:30 PM Casey calls her mom’s cell phone
1:30 PM Casey calls her mom’s cell again
1:31 PM Casey calls the Anthony Home
1:36 PM Casey calls Casey again and then a VM Message cleared happens
1:43 PM Casey gets a Yahoo msg while at Tony’s
91 minute break.. time for some nooky with Tony???
3:15 PM VM message waiting
3:32 PM Casey calls the Anthony home for 1 minute pings near FUSION
3:51 PM Anthony home is calling Casey
3:52 PM Casey calls Anthony home and talks 4 minute pings near Fusion and Waterford Ale
3:54 PM DRF dealership calls Casey (ric or annie)
98 minute break..
5:31 PM Casey checks VM
5:55 PM Casey gets a call from DRF (ric or annie)
5:56- 6:02 PM VM message, Yahoo message
6:18 PM Casey calls VM… Casey is back near Tony’s Apt.
6:55 PM Anthony home calls Casey 2 minute call6:59 PM Ric calls Casey she lets it go to VM
7:15 PM Ric texts Casey
7:15 PM Casey calls the Anthony home for 5 minutes
7:21 PM Casey calls Ric (she is at Tony’s apt)
7:25 PM Jesse G calls Casey and talks for 13 minutes
7:45 PM Casey texts Ric Casey is pinging at home

This is prolly when Casey "celebrated" her mothers bday with her....

Another text fest between Casey/Ric and Casey/Tony goes on until 9:33 when she takes a 12 minute break. Grandma must be taken care of Caylee’s bedtime. Cindy mentioned she likes to rock Caylee to sleep at night in her Aug 1 interveiw.
Texting continues between Ric and Casey very heavily…
10:58 PM Tony calls Casey and they talk for 32 minute
Casey texts with Rick and Tony until 1:32 PM she gets in 1 text with Jesse Grund texting Casey
1:32 AM Casey goes to sleep 5.5 hours and wakes up at 6:52 on June 6th when her cell show activity
Amy Huzienga July 23rd interview
http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0925/17555307.pdf PG 10
“…probably hanging out with Tony. Hadn’t seen Caylee this week.”

Just looking at all of this texting/phone calling - doesn't it make you wonder just how more interesting this "picture" would be if we could also put all of the computer usage/myspace postings with all of this??? Great job IBY, for putting all of this info together - it's very helpful!! :clap:

 

[ibyoungr]

Just looking at all of this texting/phone calling - doesn't it make you wonder just how more interesting this "picture" would be if we could also put all of the computer usage/myspace postings with all of this??? Great job IBY, for putting all of this info together - it's very helpful!! :clap:

If any one has myspace postings relating to the dates of June 1st through June 20th that would be great. I have a very long document that I am pulling things into together, it has a little more info. As I find stuff I put it all together.

Thanks! It does somehow pull everything together and makes a clearer picture of it all. The calendar is nice but it only tells you what when on that day.. Not the ORDER of how it all happened.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

ibyounger - Wouldn't it also be interesting to have the myspace/facebook icons or any pictures she edited and downloaded on each day on your timeline? I know, I know... lots more work! It just might show her frame of mind as the days went on.

I really enjoy the work you have done so far! It helps to really put it all together.

 

[ibyoungr]

Per Maria Kissh interview....
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/12 Maria Kissh Transcript.pdf
interview with Pedro Rivera

MK:... and so that's how I, I met her uhm, out and then subsequently saw her several times at his apartment.
PR: His apartment?
MK: Uh-hum
PR: Okay
MK: and that's also where I saw uhm, her with Caylee.
PR: And what day was that?
MK: I don't know the exact date. I know it was after June 9th. It ..
PR After June 9th?
MK: After June 9th. It had to have been that very week. So maybe it...
PR: Do you remember the day?
MK: I don't. Maybe a couple of days after.

This is found on OCSO page 785

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

Allrighty guys....bear with me, cause I've been up all night looking at this stuff and thinking it through before I post. I have searched some and done a bit of scanning, but this may be posted elsewhere by someone who's a WAY more experienced WSer than I am. So, if I'm re-posting anyone else's theory, I'm SO SORRY and I would never take credit for any of this research because EVERYTHING that I looked over was in the calendar that you guys have put SO MUCH hard work into building. The thing that sparked my interest was the "draft email" that was brought up in another thread. I posted about wishing I could start on this case with a "fresh mind" and re-look at all the info.....so I decided that I would try it (do the best I could, anyway). So, I did a LOT of reading in the "draft" thread and used the linkes that the posters in there provided (you guys are SOO awesome) and started checking out the calendar for the month of June.
The two pieces of information that I focused on were the fact that Caylee was with CA on the 15th for Father's Day and that GA said he saw Caylee and CA leave the house shortly before 1pm on The 16th. I looked through everything that you guys put on the calendar from the doc dumps, LE interviews, phone conversations, ping maps and typical daily schedules for CA, GA, KC, and Caylee the most. I looked at some AH, JG, RM, and TL as well. This is what I came up with (have adult onset ADD so bear with me, please)

KC spent the evening of the 13th with TL at Fusian until around 3AM on the 14th after lying to all her other friends about George's "mini-stroke heart-attack" thingy. She pinged near Fusian until about 1:40AM and then pinged near AL's apartment around 2:50AM. She pinged near the A home around 3:15AM on the 14th (Saturday). She slept at the A's home for a while and then pinged next in route to TL's where she stayed from around 12:15-4pm Saturday afternoon before going back to the A's home and staying overnight (until Sunday the 15th, Father's Day) which is indicated by the 12:30AM-9:15 am pings at/near the A's home on the morning of the 15th.
KC left Caylee with CA, who took her to visit her GGfather at the nursing home and to eat chilli at her GGmother's house before returning home. CA stayed with TL for the entire day on the 15th (around 9:15AM until around 7:30PM) until she returned to the A's home around 7:30PM and stayed there through midnight (she pinged around 12:30AM at the A's on the 16th) and stayed at or near the A's residence all the way through 4:30PM the afternoon of the 16th.
GA's work schedule was 2-10PM on the afternoon/evening of the 16th, and he says that he saw KC and Caylee leave the house around 1PM. This could be true since GA wasn't scheduled to be at work until 2 (and CA wouldn't have been there to witness this because she worked from 8AM-5PM). However, KC still pinged around the A's home until 4:30 PM, indicating that she didn't go to "work" or anywhere else during that time period after she left the A's house. On the computer use information, the HP desktop at the A's house was being used at 84% from 2-3PM on the 16th. It couldn't have been GA or CA because they were both at work, meaning that KC is the only person that could have been using the computer between 2-3PM...so she had to have doubled back to the A's home after GA left for work. Then JG speaks to KC for 12 minutes starting at 2:52PM and hears Caylee in the background (keep in mind that he doesn't second guess whether or not he heard her on this phone call....it was the phone call on the 24th that he wasn't sure of). That means that Caylee was still alive at around 3:05PM (end of the phone call between KC and JG) on Monday the 16th.
After the JG phone call, there is a 30 minute gap in phone activity, followed by a 22 second phone call from KC to AL at 3:35PM. Then there is a 35 minute gap in phone activity until KC makes a 34 second phone call to GA around 4:10PM. Then there are four phone calls to CA (two at 4:11 and two at 4:13) followed by a 98 second call to GA at 4:14. Then she texts AL at 4:18 and appears (according to pings) to be traveling away from the A's home. She arrives at Al's apartment, calls JG two more times at 4:21and makes 6 phone calls to either CA or the A's home from 4:25-6:32 that evening. She makes a few calls to friends throughout the rest of the evening and stays the night at AL's apartment. This is when she "moves in" with TL (stops staying at the A's at night) and she doesn't have Caylee with her at all. The car gets backed into the A's garage for the first time the next day, the 17th and the invisinanny stories start on the 20th to TL about being able to stay all weekend and on the 27th to JG about who's keeping her while she's out partying.
I know I probably included a lot of info that wasn't really necessary, but I wanted to make sure that my thoughts were "flowing" correctly. I think I've narrowed down little Caylee's time of death to one of the two breaks in the cell phone activity on the 16th while she was at the A's house! Little Caylee was either murdered between 3:04-3:35 before KC called AL or between 3:35-4:10 when she called GA at work because NOBODY saw her or heard her little voice again after the phone call with JG that ended at 3:04PM on June 16th. That means that KC murdered her baby between 3:04 and 4:10 at her parent's house (just an hour or so before CA would have been home from work).

Please feel free to edit this and tear it apart however you need to. Like I said, I was up all night doing this psycho-crazy "figure it out" thing....so I'm sure I messed up and got confused quite a bit because it seems like if this were possible you guys would have already figured it out. Plus, it might be posted already and I'm just not very good at searching.