AK AK - Steve Keel, 61, missing from hunting trip, from TN - Aug 27, 2022

[White_Mountains]

1. Clicker
2. Cold pack for injured joint for first 24 hours
3. Couch, deck chair, or recliner
4. Comfy clothing
5. Choice of beverage, hot or cold
6. Compression, if it helps your particular joints
7. Camaraderie, provided by WSer
8. Commiseration, provided by old WSers
9. Chocolate, frequently good for what ails ya'
10. Compassion, for yourself

11. Cussing, for the errant dog owner

Snipped by me.

I love these essentials!

 

[5W's]

It’s not at all unusual for folks missing in the wild NEVER to be found, and when they are, it’s often an accidental find by random hikers a long time later.
This location in vast, empty tundra, makes it unlikely SK’s remains will ever be found. There was the added disadvantage, too, that he was dressed in camo and easily concealed. He could have been just a hummock away from a searcher’s foot, and the searcher wouldn’t know.
IMO

Here is a NPS compilation of featured missing, just for National Parks. These would have had thousands of search hours from Park personnel and SAR (sometimes LE, too).

Cold Cases - Investigative Services (U.S. National Park Service)

Please scroll through this roster of cold cases, which include missing persons, accidents or crimes in the National Parks that have yet to be solved and have no active leads.

www.nps.gov

I agree that those who are found are often found a long time later and accidentally or at random. But the question remains that in that month scavengers left that hiker's remains alone for the most part. What about in Steve's case. I realize its hard to say what the difference was. However, another question comes into play here. If we look at the Nevada hiker's case to Steve's in a way its similar because SAR was looking for him and LE told people not to disturb the area. Which for the Nevada hiker it appears people did listen. But the Nevada hiker was found not too far from the trail Then I can understand why scavengers may not have disturbed the remains, but with Steve's case apparently from what I've heard that hunter's didn't heed LE's request and searched regardless so I can also see scavengers leaving Stev'e remain undisturbed here also. So IMO it is puzzling.

 

[White_Mountains]

Ha, I went on volunteer duty at the National Park, and, wouldn't you know, I got injured enough that if I had been out in the backcountry, I would have had to use a PLB and get SAR. I was shocked I could be that injured and be so immobilized so quickly.

Snipped for focus.

I am so sorry to hear that you were injured today! Take it easy and listen to your body as you recover. I hope your pup is also OK after the excitement.

 

[charminglane]

@RickshawFan
Well, there is a different list of the 10 Essentials when you are comfortably recuperating and resting on the couch.
1. Clicker

Cheers, glad you made it home safe.

Originally I had
1. Clicker
2. Dog
3. Book
Then I figured to each their own.

 

[RickshawFan]

In our discussion of logistics, we never talked about how the duo was getting water. Since they weren't next to a river, they'd have to lug it in to camp. The lake looks like a risky proposition.
If they needed a gallon each a day (that's conservative) @8lbs per gallon, and they were out 7 days, they're lugging approx. 112 lbs of water. How?
They could easily have been de-hydrated on top of everything else.

 

[charminglane]

Fascinating case!

 

[RickshawFan]

Yep. I am an EMT and live where it snows. It really sucks.

I’m really appreciating EMT’S right at the moment. They did me a good deed today. Thanks for what you do.

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m reading about some creative uses for Apple Air Tags when in the back country.

Basically, you leave an Apple Air tag on/in/at something you want to trace, and then use Find My.
Throw one in your tent, so you can find your way back to it…
Attach one to your caribou cache
Attach one to your camo duds

 

[RickshawFan]

Originally I had
1. Clicker
2. Dog
3. Book
Then I figured to each their own.

I figured you had the clicker as the be all and end all: one essential mandated or helpful in this situation.

 

[RickshawFan]

I agree that those who are found are often found a long time later and accidentally or at random. But the question remains that in that month scavengers left that hiker's remains alone for the most part. What about in Steve's case. I realize its hard to say what the difference was. However, another question comes into play here. If we look at the Nevada hiker's case to Steve's in a way its similar because SAR was looking for him and LE told people not to disturb the area. Which for the Nevada hiker it appears people did listen. But the Nevada hiker was found not too far from the trail Then I can understand why scavengers may not have disturbed the remains, but with Steve's case apparently from what I've heard that hunter's didn't heed LE's request and searched regardless so I can also see scavengers leaving Stev'e remain undisturbed here also. So IMO it is puzzling.

I’m investigating that other case… interesting.

Y’all, there is an FB Search for X page or Find X page for the Nevada missing (August 23) hiker. IMO he had a lot more going for him as far as being found. For starters, SAR got in there early and the site didn’t get contaminated by well-meaning non-professionals. There were also some witness sightings.

I would guess the find on this Nevada case went almost exactly to the “lost person behavior” algorithm.

I’m not sure why a set of remains would survive intact in one case versus another. Perhaps location biology. On the other hand, SK’s remains might be completely intact: we just don’t know. I actually think it’s likely they are, and they’re not far off.

Hypothermia in both cases IMO precipitated by some sort of “not quite 100%” medical issue.

 

[Jade]

I think of the the loving eager folks back home, as did the hunters I'm sure, looking to have a taste of caribou stew as all of them have undoubtedly followed the planning, departure and updates.

In my community there would already be an annual wild meat dinner planned at the lodge. The Caribou meat and the intrepid hunters would be this year’s stars.


Midway down this page there’s a picture of the cutest little Caribou babies next to some informative photos of portioning meat.

News – Beverly and Qamanirjuaq Caribou Management Board (arctic-caribou.com)



Shipping the meat may not have been costly:

>>>has worked to influence airline companies to provide information about how much caribou meat they are shipping.

>>>airlines that continue to offer free or subsidized shipping rates contribute to the problem.

Sale of Caribou Meat – Beverly and Qamanirjuaq Caribou Management Board (arctic-caribou.com)




all imo

 

[WingsOverTX]

I’m investigating that other case… interesting.

Y’all, there is an FB Search for X page or Find X page for the Nevada missing (August 23) hiker. IMO he had a lot more going for him as far as being found. For starters, SAR got in there early and the site didn’t get contaminated by well-meaning non-professionals. There were also some witness sightings.

I would guess the find on this Nevada case went almost exactly to the “lost person behavior” algorithm.

I’m not sure why a set of remains would survive intact in one case versus another. Perhaps location biology. On the other hand, SK’s remains might be completely intact: we just don’t know. I actually think it’s likely they are, and they’re not far off.

Hypothermia in both cases IMO precipitated by some sort of “not quite 100%” medical issue.

Have you seen hypothermia as officially being linked to Rock Stanley's death? (I assume that is the Nevada hiker you are referencing?) If it was, my feeling is it would have been a secondary cause or complication. It's too bad he pushed on when he had to have known it was unwise. A reaction to new meds is also suspected in RS's case.

RS was 75 & alone in a familiar terrain. I'm not really seeing any parallels between the two but that's just me. RS was wearing a bright yellow jacket, which made fiding him from air search a bit easier although it took weeks. I updated his thread with that info.

I do find the extended search required to find RS somewhat puzzling since his body was found close to a main trail. But I haven't seen enough particulars in MSM to know how close or how many hikers or searchers might have passed that spot after he was reported missing.

RS definitely made it a lot further into the trail system than I expected because after he had walked 8+ miles up the road from his lodging to the trailhead, he was described as having shaky legs & possibly being confused (reports differ) 1/2 mile into his planned hike to Mt Charles.

I wonder if SK also walked much further than expected. His best plan would have been to not keep wandering but maybe he did.
MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

Have you seen hypothermia as officially being linked to Rock Stanley's death? (I assume that is the Nevada hiker you are referencing?) If it was, my feeling is it would have been a secondary cause or complication. It's too bad he pushed on when he had to have known it was unwise. A reaction to new meds is also suspected in RS's case.

RS was 75 & alone in a familiar terrain. I'm not really seeing any parallels between the two but that's just me. RS was wearing a bright yellow jacket, which made fiding him from air search a bit easier although it took weeks. I updated his thread with that info.

I do find the extended search required to find RS somewhat puzzling since his body was found close to a main trail. But I haven't seen enough particulars in MSM to know how close or how many hikers or searchers might have passed that spot after he was reported missing.

RS definitely made it a lot further into the trail system than I expected because after he had walked 8+ miles up the road from his lodging to the trailhead, he was described as having shaky legs & possibly being confused (reports differ) 1/2 mile into his planned hike to Mt Charles.

I wonder if SK also walked much further than expected. His best plan would have been to not keep wandering but maybe he did.
MOO

@WingsOverTX We can maybe take the RS end of this discussion over to that thread? Then, I'll comment over there.

I don't see any parallels to the SK case, but someone ^^^ was curious about why remains could be intact in one case and not the other, and also why one set of remains was found and not the other.

IMO I think neither man wanted to believe they were physically incapable of the task they'd set themselves, though they were.

SK could perhaps have walked quite far, but he might very well have walked in circles, especially since the position of the sun was no help.

 

[j_in_c]

I’m reading about some creative uses for Apple Air Tags when in the back country.

Basically, you leave an Apple Air tag on/in/at something you want to trace, and then use Find My.
Throw one in your tent, so you can find your way back to it…
Attach one to your caribou cache
Attach one to your camo duds

Just to make sure folks understand the technology involved - apple airtags use bluetooth and create a network by connecting to passing cell phones so in Alaska airtags would not be helpful. On somewhere like the AT they could be useful:

Does An AirTag Use A Cellular Service? (Solved) – A Geek's World

www.ageeksworld.com

In backcountry, without cell service the satellite services of a PLB or sat phone are really the best backup system to have. In this instance, even regular walkie talkies (which work line of sight for up to 2miles on the FRS band) would have been a great idea to allow SK and his hunting partner to stay in touch while SK returned to the cache). All of this is armchair QB'ing - once things go wrong, it is easy to point out all the ways that things could have gone differently. I am sure all of us on here who spend time in the backcountry can think of instances where things didn't go according to plan and luck was on our side to live to hike/climb/paddle another day.

 

[RickshawFan]

Just to make sure folks understand the technology involved - apple airtags use bluetooth and create a network by connecting to passing cell phones so in Alaska airtags would not be helpful. On somewhere like the AT they could be useful

Snipped for focus...

So, if you put an Airtag in your tent and then take a nature break in the middle of the night, why would you need other people's cell phones? You only need yours to find it....

It would be great to be able to have an Airtag in your pack and for SAR to be able to pick up on it via drone or helicopter. I think the Airtag technology would allow this; we'd just need a cell phone on a drone? Then drone searching would not just be by visual; now, there's electronic reading happening..

 

[WingsOverTX]

Just to make sure folks understand the technology involved - apple airtags use bluetooth and create a network by connecting to passing cell phones so in Alaska airtags would not be helpful. On somewhere like the AT they could be useful:

Does An AirTag Use A Cellular Service? (Solved) – A Geek's World

www.ageeksworld.com

In backcountry, without cell service the satellite services of a PLB or sat phone are really the best backup system to have. In this instance, even regular walkie talkies (which work line of sight for up to 2miles on the FRS band) would have been a great idea to allow SK and his hunting partner to stay in touch while SK returned to the cache). All of this is armchair QB'ing - once things go wrong, it is easy to point out all the ways that things could have gone differently. I am sure all of us on here who spend time in the backcountry can think of instances where things didn't go according to plan and luck was on our side to live to hike/climb/paddle another day.

The main takeaway for me is not "woulda, shoulda, coulda." I don't think anyone has been too harsh in their assessments. This event and outcome is most definitely a learning opportunity, as your post demonstrates.

This remote area of tundra didn't leave these two hunters much margin for error. Even if "errors" identified here had been avoided, a medical incident or other unavoidable circumstance could have made the trip outcome precarious for both men. My view is they calculated & accepted that risk, including acceptance of unforseeables & unknowns.

I would add that the miles & miles of dangerous, uninhabited territory on both sides of the Dalton Road is EXTREME under any definition of backcountry.

Some commentary may appear critical due to different posters' perception of acceptable risk. Opinions are always going to differ in any WS thread.

Ultimately, i think we all wish 1) SK hadn't disappeared and 2) His family could have closure by at least finding his body.

MOO

ETA: Great idea about low tech walkie talkies!

 

[Laughing]

Snipped for focus...

So, if you put an Airtag in your tent and then take a nature break in the middle of the night, why would you need other people's cell phones? You only need yours to find it....

It would be great to be able to have an Airtag in your pack and for SAR to be able to pick up on it via drone or helicopter. I think the Airtag technology would allow this; we'd just need a cell phone on a drone? Then drone searching would not just be by visual; now, there's electronic reading happening..

Do the phone & the Air Tag need a tower for this?

On the Kiely Rodni thread, someone posted that Bluetooth, per Bluetooth, works from a few feet to 30 feet yards -- with other factors involved?

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00014085

The range of the Bluetooth® connection is approximately 30 feet (10 meters). However, maximum communication range will vary depending on obstacles (person, metal, wall, etc.) or electromagnetic environment.

30 feet isn't really very far imho? IS that far enough to protect yourself from predators & your meat cache?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[j_in_c]

Snipped for focus...

So, if you put an Airtag in your tent and then take a nature break in the middle of the night, why would you need other people's cell phones? You only need yours to find it....

It would be great to be able to have an Airtag in your pack and for SAR to be able to pick up on it via drone or helicopter. I think the Airtag technology would allow this; we'd just need a cell phone on a drone? Then drone searching would not just be by visual; now, there's electronic reading happening..

Bluetooth range is about 30ft - so yes, for a nighttime bathroom break maybe it could be useful, I don't see how it would have helped with SK re-locating his cache. I think a GPS marker and then bringing a GPS with him on a return trip would have been a lot more useful than a bluetooth device.

 

[RickshawFan]

Do the phone & the Air Tag need a tower for this?

On the Kiely Rodni thread, someone posted that Bluetooth, per Bluetooth, works from a few feet to 30 feet yards -- with other factors involved?

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00014085

The range of the Bluetooth® connection is approximately 30 feet (10 meters). However, maximum communication range will vary depending on obstacles (person, metal, wall, etc.) or electromagnetic environment.

30 feet isn't really very far imho? IS that far enough to protect yourself from predators & your meat cache?

jmho ymmv lrr

I have an AppleWatch with no cell service directly. However, it will take phone calls if my phone is nearby! I got shocked when this first happened. The connection operates through bluetooth. It goes quite a bit further than 30 feet. With the phone in my house (10 inch thick walls), I can be anywhere in my yard or across the street and voice will be crystal clear.
So, potentially much further than 30 feet.

 

[RickshawFan]

Bluetooth range is about 30ft - so yes, for a nighttime bathroom break maybe it could be useful, I don't see how it would have helped with SK re-locating his cache. I think a GPS marker and then bringing a GPS with him on a return trip would have been a lot more useful than a bluetooth device.

Yes, the GPS point would have been by far the best.