AK AK - Steve Keel, 61, missing from hunting trip, from TN - Aug 27, 2022

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5W's

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Another thing Steve's cache/pack of caribou meat, why didn't scavengers get that. I mean it is easy enough to rip with sharp teeth or claws. So if we use the same anlogy in Steve's case the pack with stash was found but Steve hasn't been. If Steve is deceased then would have scavengers gotten to his remains? The pack wasn't found right away, correct? So thinking about that makes me wonder about it. I'm pretty sure the pack would be very tempting to some hungry animal/scavenger?
 

RickshawFan

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Another thing Steve's cache/pack of caribou meat, why didn't scavengers get that. I mean it is easy enough to rip with sharp teeth or claws. So if we use the same anlogy in Steve's case the pack with stash was found but Steve hasn't been. If Steve is deceased then would have scavengers gotten to his remains? The pack wasn't found right away, correct? So thinking about that makes me wonder about it. I'm pretty sure the pack would be very tempting to some hungry animal/scavenger?
I believe BC was able to get to SK’s meat cache without any issues. And the cache was intact.

Because of that, it seems unlikely to me (but whaddo I know) that SK remains were harvested by a predator in that time frame. However, different predators have different tastes, SK was a predator himself and not an inert meat cache, timing and precise location matter. So, there are a lot of variables.

Eeeeeek, now an ad wants me to buy “Data-driven cemetery management software”: I guess I used some keywords in that paragraph. o_O
 

LauraAnne

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Another thing Steve's cache/pack of caribou meat, why didn't scavengers get that. I mean it is easy enough to rip with sharp teeth or claws. So if we use the same anlogy in Steve's case the pack with stash was found but Steve hasn't been. If Steve is deceased then would have scavengers gotten to his remains? The pack wasn't found right away, correct? So thinking about that makes me wonder about it. I'm pretty sure the pack would be very tempting to some hungry animal/scavenger?
It seems the answer is, because there weren't any scavengers. The cleaned up meat stash was untouched, as was the area where the animals were cleaned and gutted. Those areas, with animal entrails, were also untouched by scavengers. This case is one of the most baffling I've followed, in part because those close to the search details aren't releasing information.
 

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It seems the answer is, because there weren't any scavengers. The cleaned up meat stash was untouched, as was the area where the animals were cleaned and gutted. Those areas, with animal entrails, were also untouched by scavengers. This case is one of the most baffling I've followed, in part because those close to the search details aren't releasing information.

Not only are they stingy with giving out info, they also gave out wrong location info and never corrected it. They said he was hunting off mile marker 336.5 and this location info is literally everywhere, from FB to articles in the MSM. They finally posted yesterday that the mile marker is 349 - that's a 13 mile difference!
 

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Not only are they stingy with giving out info, they also gave out wrong location info and never corrected it. They said he was hunting off mile marker 336.5 and this location info is literally everywhere, from FB to articles in the MSM. They finally posted yesterday that the mile marker is 349 - that's a 13 mile difference!
They also gave out incorrect information about the meat cache. We didn't know until a couple of weeks in, that SK had had to dump the meat because he couldn't make it back to camp. It wasn't a safety mechanism to keep bears away from their camp. And then he put that invisible pole beside it to mark the spot. And then, he didn't try to come back and get it until late the next morning.
All this indicates to me that there was something really off about the trip, and that information was held back on purpose.

I wonder if their hunting permit was for mile marker 336.5?
 

5W's

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Not only are they stingy with giving out info, they also gave out wrong location info and never corrected it. They said he was hunting off mile marker 336.5 and this location info is literally everywhere, from FB to articles in the MSM. They finally posted yesterday that the mile marker is 349 - that's a 13 mile difference!
Again my apologies haven' been following thoroughly as as I'd like to help out here in Steve's baffling disappearance circumstances but 13 miles is a big difference. Five miles from the road, then a couple of miles to the campsite then another couple of miles to the hunting area. A post mentioned that perhaps Steve went in circles after getting lost but if he went in circles he would be found by now. The reason I say this about the circles is because if he was going around in circles between 13 miles he would intersect with his beginning point or at least an area he was at, at some point, I would imagine.
 

5W's

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It seems the answer is, because there weren't any scavengers. The cleaned up meat stash was untouched, as was the area where the animals were cleaned and gutted. Those areas, with animal entrails, were also untouched by scavengers. This case is one of the most baffling I've followed, in part because those close to the search details aren't releasing information.
See this has been my point of wonderment about Steve\s disappearance these areas were untouched by scavengers which may indicate as you mentioned that perhaps no scavengers around. So if Steve for examply passed away due to hypothermia or had an injury by accident or say a medical event etc. then his remains should be found since the pack and cache, hunting areas were untouched by scavengers. Baffling for sure.
 

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I believe BC was able to get to SK’s meat cache without any issues. And the cache was intact.

Because of that, it seems unlikely to me (but whaddo I know) that SK remains were harvested by a predator in that time frame. However, different predators have different tastes, SK was a predator himself and not an inert meat cache, timing and precise location matter. So, there are a lot of variables.

Eeeeeek, now an ad wants me to buy “Data-driven cemetery management software”: I guess I used some keywords in that paragraph. o_O
But at the same time the caribou hunting area that was closeby the pack wasn't touched either. Not only that but it was sometime before like the day before that and hours later the next day I believe, that the caribou hunt occurred. Its still a large timeframe. Even the cache wasn't found the day Steve went missing there's quite a bit of time in between.
 

Hexe

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See this has been my point of wonderment about Steve\s disappearance these areas were untouched by scavengers which may indicate as you mentioned that perhaps no scavengers around. So if Steve for examply passed away due to hypothermia or had an injury by accident or say a medical event etc. then his remains should be found since the pack and cache, hunting areas were untouched by scavengers. Baffling for sure.
Looking for a body clad in camouflage clothing in the tundra is like looking for a hay coloured needle in a haystack. It seems Steve went off the correct direction and got lost, we don't know though which direction he went and how far.
 

5W's

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Looking for a body clad in camouflage clothing in the tundra is like looking for a hay coloured needle in a haystack. It seems Steve went off the correct direction and got lost, we don't know though which direction he went and how far.
I'm going to throw something else into this, Steve obviously didn't backtrack in the same direction he came from. So he went any other direction, yes. The pack was 13 miles from the road, since the hunting area has to be 5 miles from the road could it be possible he went to the direction of the road from another area after leaving his pack? Its possible if he could see the road from where he was at that other location. After dumping his pack for whatever reason, because he was exhausted? IDK about that, though. Okay, lets say perhaps Steve was exhausted when decideding to leave it, then he wouldn't have gotten far. Because he would be tired. If hypothermia happened then he would presumably take his clothes off and succumb to the elements but either way IMO he wouldn't have gotten far. He had to dump his pack for a reason because it is food, if he had matches with him he could make a fire. If he was confused and left his pack where it was and happened to get confused there then he wouldn't get far either. At some point his system would give in to the elements because he had no water nor food, and the cold dampness as well.
 

JustMyself

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I'm going to throw something else into this, Steve obviously didn't backtrack in the same direction he came from. So he went any other direction, yes. The pack was 13 miles from the road, since the hunting area has to be 5 miles from the road could it be possible he went to the direction of the road from another area after leaving his pack? Its possible if he could see the road from where he was at that other location. After dumping his pack for whatever reason, because he was exhausted? IDK about that, though. Okay, lets say perhaps Steve was exhausted when decideding to leave it, then he wouldn't have gotten far. Because he would be tired. If hypothermia happened then he would presumably take his clothes off and succumb to the elements but either way IMO he wouldn't have gotten far. He had to dump his pack for a reason because it is food, if he had matches with him he could make a fire. If he was confused and left his pack where it was and happened to get confused there then he wouldn't get far either. At some point his system would give in to the elements because he had no water nor food, and the cold dampness as well.
Just to clarify, Steve decided to leave his pack with the meat in it on the way back to camp the day before he disappeared (due to not feeling well).
The following morning he went to collect it after a morning coffee. It is unknown if he made it back to the pack as the pack was in the same place (seemingly untouched) when his friend went to find him.
 

RickshawFan

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Again my apologies haven' been following thoroughly as as I'd like to help out here in Steve's baffling disappearance circumstances but 13 miles is a big difference. Five miles from the road, then a couple of miles to the campsite then another couple of miles to the hunting area. A post mentioned that perhaps Steve went in circles after getting lost but if he went in circles he would be found by now. The reason I say this about the circles is because if he was going around in circles between 13 miles he would intersect with his beginning point or at least an area he was at, at some point, I would imagine.
“Traveling in circles” doesn’t mean exact circles. See “lost person behavior” videos ^^^^ with visuals.
 

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I’m going to re-post my question from ^^^^^.

I wonder if their permit was for Mile 336? So, at Mile 349 where they situated themselves, they were actually hunting where they weren’t permitted?

If that’s the case, the points where we all were scratching our heads start to make sense.

This would explain why there was confusion at the get-go about the mile markers: the hunters didn’t want it known that they weren’t where they were supposed to be. It would also explain the long delay in getting help: not so great calling attention to yourselves if you’re not where you’re supposed to be. SK might also have tried to get himself un-lost for much longer than he might otherwise, and thus made the whole situation worse, by making the search area impossibly huge.

Maybe it was BC’s idea to move and he’d had to persuade SK?

I wonder if, at some point, they were hunting in 336? And SK’s brain was organized to that landscape? And if his brain went gappy for some reason…This is starting to make sense to me…

I wonder if they had trouble schlepping their stuff in at 336? Or, maybe they couldn’t get water or something, this being DIY and they’d forgotten to address major necessities and limitations (like the weight of stuff and the need for water). Then, they got hold of @Gardenista ’s map with the trail marked in, so they decided to move over there? It was conveniently near a lake, evidently an actual route… And there actually appeared to be caribou there (if you, in ignorance, pick a location without suitable water, there aren’t going to be caribou, either…)
@Gardenista Do you have the map for the area at 336? Maybe we’ll see something that’s a deal breaker there that will explain why they didn’t stay there. Whatever their plan, I’m sure WE would make better decisions, and something might jump out at us.

Maybe 336 doesn’t have a hill that would let you scan for miles?
 
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WingsOverTX

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Is there any definitive information (not from the hunting friend) as to when SK was actually physically last seen?
I haven't seen anything that establishes that but there is a photo of Steve taken near the furthest in camp by a body of water that would have been close in time to their prep to leave, I believe.

I also believe that he disappeared when he walked alone to pick up his pack of meat. (I would almost suspect alien abduction if the terrain were not so difficult & deceptive.) No doubt, the Dover Team was frustrated by a fog delay & the hard slog in that terrain.

SK is out there. He just hasn't been found. Very, very difficult search. Don't go missing in the Arctic. You are likely to spend eternity there.

JMO
 

WingsOverTX

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I’m going to re-post my question from ^^^^^.

I wonder if their permit was for Mile 336? So, at Mile 349 where they situated themselves, they were actually hunting where they weren’t permitted?

If that’s the case, the points where we all were scratching our heads start to make sense.

This would explain why there was confusion at the get-go about the mile markers: the hunters didn’t want it known that they weren’t where they were supposed to be. It would also explain the long delay in getting help: not so great calling attention to yourselves if you’re not where you’re supposed to be. SK might also have tried to get himself un-lost for much longer than he might otherwise, and thus made the whole situation worse, by making the search area impossibly huge.

Maybe it was BC’s idea to move and he’d had to persuade SK?

I wonder if, at some point, they were hunting in 336? And SK’s brain was organized to that landscape? And if his brain went gappy for some reason…This is starting to make sense to me…

I wonder if they had trouble schlepping their stuff in at 336? Or, maybe they couldn’t get water or something, this being DIY and they’d forgotten to address major necessities and limitations (like the weight of stuff and the need for water). Then, they got hold of @Gardenista ’s map with the trail marked in, so they decided to move over there? It was conveniently near a lake, evidently an actual route… And there actually appeared to be caribou there (if you, in ignorance, pick a location without suitable water, there aren’t going to be caribou, either…)
@Gardenista Do you have the map for the area at 336? Maybe we’ll see something that’s a deal breaker there that will explain why they didn’t stay there. Whatever their plan, I’m sure WE would make better decisions, and something might jump out at us.

Maybe 336 doesn’t have a hill that would let you scan for miles?
Respectfully, I have a couple of questions.

Was the hunt permitted? I thought they never let LE or any authority know where they were hunting.

Was there a "long delay" in reporting SK missing? I'm not sure how much sooner that could have happened based on the logistics they choose of meeting at the vehicle if separated (faulty plan, obviously).
 

RickshawFan

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Respectfully, I have a couple of questions.

Was the hunt permitted? I thought they never let LE or any authority know where they were hunting.

Was there a "long delay" in reporting SK missing? I'm not sure how much sooner that could have happened based on the logistics they choose of meeting at the vehicle if separated (faulty plan, obviously).
I understand there are several levels of permitting. There was a poster on here earlier who said something I understood to be: "you register to a unit". I did understand they never let BLM know where they were going to be. Precise wording might be important here.

It seems BC didn't contact SAR for 30 hours after he'd last seen SK. He had almost certainly expired by then IMO.

Here are current regs (note the language about units):
 

RickshawFan

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After going through those AK hunting regs.....

It's already clear there were violations, 'cos BC's and SK's kills had to have locking tags. Since the meat was abandoned (and all parts are required to be removed from the field), I would venture to bet there weren't locking tags. Spendy critters.

But see what you think. I'm so not a hunter:

Screen Shot 2022-09-28 at 2.04.06 PM.png
 

RickshawFan

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Respectfully, I have a couple of questions.

Was the hunt permitted? I thought they never let LE or any authority know where they were hunting.

Was there a "long delay" in reporting SK missing? I'm not sure how much sooner that could have happened based on the logistics they choose of meeting at the vehicle if separated (faulty plan, obviously).
You can see I've been trying to do a deeper dig into regulations....

I'm not sure what "unit" SK and BC were hunting in. However, I note that there are restrictions on BLM land. For instance, this hunt is for subsistence residents only:

 

RickshawFan

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If the fellas weren’t in compliance with on-the-ground regs, and they knew it, that would explain a lot here. And I don’t mean not giving the BLM office a courtesy call; I mean something regulated that very likely involved $$$$.
From the get-go there was something strange going on with location: where they actually were versus where they reported they were.
 
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