Recovered/Located AL - Casey White, prisoner, & Vicky Sue White (Deceased), CO w/sher office, Lauderdale, 29 Apr'22 *Reward* #7

LMDlong

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Thank you to the moderator for letting us know about Google Drive not being an approved source. I appreciate that, thanks. I don't know if this is going to be a second time I am explaining my perspective or opinion I apologize if it is. Anyways I listened to it and I agree that in the audio I posted the Tristate article that its a very short period of time we hear VW and CW. I was only concerned with what VW and CW were saying. Today when I listned to the audio I missed CW saying "that didn't help" I believe he is referring to going into the ditch its at the 27 second mark. He realized at that point that he would have to surrender as they were in the ditch and LE was closing in on them. It probably occurred to him that a shootout wasn't worth it, because he would die, there were too many LE surrounding them. As far as what VW had said prior to the 27 second mark I would say that she was coherant in the words she was saying. So basically all that I had posted about her still reonates with what I originally said. But of course she may not have been aware of the 9-11 dispatcher. According to initial reports that came out it was the case that it was Vicky calling 9-11. If it had happened that way the words she said would reflect what she said so that aspect wouldn't have changed. It would just make the call more tragic than it already was. But also one can hear her panicked words with CW bfore the 27 second mark and conclude that she also had a change in her demenour and tone after and that she was screaming more (I know it wasn't sirens.) After Vicky and Casey hit that ditch the whole incident took a sombre turn and and they made decisions in their minds after that mark: one to continue living and the other beginning to decide if life was worth it apon surrender.
imo I think before she shot herself s was in pain from the crash. If you look at the picture after she is pulled out it looks like the upper and lower bones of her right leg could have been broken during the crash.
 

samsmom

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In regards to the gun going off and maybe we don’t hear that part - Imo I feel like when the ditch encounter happened VW’s phone probably threw somewhere and she wanted to hold onto the gun more. I wanted to also comment how her funeral touched my heart.
 

Lillymac

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imo I think before she shot herself s was in pain from the crash. If you look at the picture after she is pulled out it looks like the upper and lower bones of her right leg could have been broken during the crash.
I had wondered if the autopsy report had listed any other injuries. I haven't seen any copies released.
 

5W's

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Since Casey told his mom VW was going to get him out legally, I wonder if at the beginning the selling of house etc was to raise money for an attorney for Casey. Perhaps after consulting an attorney. And spending money on that, she was told there was very little chance of him getting out so the plane changed to breaking him out? Kind of a come hell or high-water she was getting him out. Maybe he was completely different when he is properly medicated and not high. The other thing that dawned on me , I wonder if she had illegally purchased his antipsyc meds that previous attorney said he was on. Former Attorney for Missing Murder Suspect Fears Ex-Client Might Attempt Suicide by Cop
I don't see how she could have purchased the CW's antipsych meds. illeagally. I mean it would be potentially dangerous because its on the black market. How would they know if it was the right dosage or it was safe at all. Personally I don't think VW would take that chance and risk CW's life. I believe he was not medicated during the period of his escape. We don't have reports saying that VW took his meds. from the jail (I guess jail dispensary.) I would think meds. would only be dealt by a medical professional in the jail and would be off limits to non medical professionals 24/7. I can see him being medicated for the day of the escape but not afterwards. Sometimes its a mind over matter sort of thing. Maybe because he was relatively comfortable he he was okay wihout his meds.
 

5W's

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I’d doubt anyone would suddenly shoot themselves when cornered by police without having contemplated that very action in advance. Avoiding arrest on the part of VW is the only plan that seems apparent to me, otherwise it appears the escape facilitated them to take one day at a time in blissful togetherness while knowing full well it very likely wouldn’t last. CW gets a few days of freedom and VW gets a brief fling with the man who’s won her heart. Maybe that was the only objective from the very beginning, possibly because VW was wise enough to realize it was not going to be a “forever” thing. JMO
Unfortunately I think VW was under delusions. From what I've posted before the feeling I get is that she wasn't thinking of consequences and thought she would get away with it and was prepared for that by arming herself/CW, having the cash in hand, & using aliases.
 

LostOldUserName

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I don't see how she could have purchased the CW's antipsych meds. illeagally. I mean it would be potentially dangerous because its on the black market. How would they know if it was the right dosage or it was safe at all. Personally I don't think VW would take that chance and risk CW's life. I believe he was not medicated during the period of his escape. We don't have reports saying that VW took his meds. from the jail (I guess jail dispensary.) I would think meds. would only be dealt by a medical professional in the jail and would be off limits to non medical professionals 24/7. I can see him being medicated for the day of the escape but not afterwards. Sometimes its a mind over matter sort of thing. Maybe because he was relatively comfortable he he was okay wihout his meds.
RBBM Well breaking out of Jail was a risk of life. And I am sorry but Mental health meds are not a mind over matter. <modsnip>
 
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ilovewings

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RBBM Well breaking out of Jail was a risk of life. And I am sorry but Mental health meds are not a mind over matter. <modsnip>
<modsnip> Not everybody understands mental illness--- <modsnip> it shows that someone does not understand the depth of mental illness--
 
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BeginnerSleuther

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Sometimes its a mind over matter sort of thing. Maybe because he was relatively comfortable he he was okay wihout his meds.

If he truly has bipolar disorder or schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia, it isn't mind over matter. A week without the meds may not be enough time to relapse for some, but it definitely isn't mind over matter with these types of illnesses.

We should also keep in mind that many criminals receive erroneous diagnoses.
 

CharlestonGal

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If he truly has bipolar disorder or schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia, it isn't mind over matter. A week without the meds may not be enough time to relapse for some, but it definitely isn't mind over matter with these types of illnesses.

We should also keep in mind that many criminals receive erroneous diagnoses.
I don't believe a jail can force medication in the face of refusal either. Absent an order from a judge we can't force any adult patient to take medication without their consent. Perhaps there were orders on Casey and we just haven't heard about them yet. If Casey was on Invega Trinza and only needed an injection every 3 months as opposed to daily meds that are being assumed here, he may have been perfectly medicated for the entire duration of the escape. We just don't know.

When/if the Connie Ridgeway trial takes place I expect to see the complete details of CW's treatment history and medications given he is using an insanity defense. All we can really do until then is guess.

Totally agree about the "mind of matter" business. That's like saying a diabetic patient could lower their blood sugar if they just thought about it hard enough. It doesn't work that way. IMO
 

WingsOverTX

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We should also keep in mind that many criminals receive erroneous diagnoses.
RSBBM

This is very important to consider. Mental illness diagnosing is not easy. We haven't seen anything clinical released to prove what CW takes meds for and what meds, have we?

We also can't assume in general that people with particular disorders are more likely to be violent lawbreakers. Many hurt themselves, not others. Many end up homeless, not committing violent crimes.

While mental illness may be a strong contributing factor to his criminal acts, it is one of many factors. Also there is implied unintentional bias because he is a very large man, IMO. If he was 5'5" and weighed 125, would he be viewed in such terms? Maybe. Something to think about when words like monster are used.

Just my opinions. Based on what we do know, segregating CW from society is best for all. But the prison environment in Alabama sounds horrific no matter why you're locked up.


Excerpt from article:
An incarcerated person who asked to keep his name confidential said the proliferation of contraband drugs inside ADOC is a direct result of failed leadership and a culture of corruption inside the agency.

“The management of ADOC has normalized gang activity, drugs and violence,” he said. “We have no security and predatory behavior is rampant. Prison alone causes despair, but it’s beyond (that) when you’re constantly in danger, cannot trust staff and half the people around you are high on drugs. We are trapped in this 24-7 for years on end and that’s why people overdose and kill themselves.”

Even in deaths not directly caused by drug use, many of the dead tested positive for dangerous substances. An analysis of autopsy reports involving 2020 prison deaths shows over 40 percent of homicide and suicide victims had meth, synthetic cannabinoids or fentanyl in their systems when they died.

In 2021, drug-related deaths occurred at four different prisons. The most happened inside Donaldson Correctional Facility where since July, at least seven men died from overdose or as a result of long term drug use. The latest suspected overdose at Donaldson was this week.

“There is so much dope in here, and when guys feel hopeless, getting high is kind of like slow suicide,” said a man incarcerated at Donaldson. “Plus, there’s no guards here. We are so short-staffed, there’s literally nobody here we can go to when we need help. This prison is a ghost town.”
 

CharlestonGal

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RSBBM

This is very important to consider. Mental illness diagnosing is not easy. We haven't seen anything clinical released to prove what CW takes meds for and what meds, have we?

We also can't assume in general that people with particular disorders are more likely to be violent lawbreakers. Many hurt themselves, not others. Many end up homeless, not committing violent crimes.

While mental illness may be a strong contributing factor to his criminal acts, it is one of many factors. Also there is implied unintentional bias because he is a very large man, IMO. If he was 5'5" and weighed 125, would he be viewed in such terms? Maybe. Something to think about when words like monster are used.

Just my opinions. Based on what we do know, segregating CW from society is best for all. But the prison environment in Alabama sounds horrific no matter why you're locked up.


Excerpt from article:
An incarcerated person who asked to keep his name confidential said the proliferation of contraband drugs inside ADOC is a direct result of failed leadership and a culture of corruption inside the agency.

“The management of ADOC has normalized gang activity, drugs and violence,” he said. “We have no security and predatory behavior is rampant. Prison alone causes despair, but it’s beyond (that) when you’re constantly in danger, cannot trust staff and half the people around you are high on drugs. We are trapped in this 24-7 for years on end and that’s why people overdose and kill themselves.”

Even in deaths not directly caused by drug use, many of the dead tested positive for dangerous substances. An analysis of autopsy reports involving 2020 prison deaths shows over 40 percent of homicide and suicide victims had meth, synthetic cannabinoids or fentanyl in their systems when they died.

In 2021, drug-related deaths occurred at four different prisons. The most happened inside Donaldson Correctional Facility where since July, at least seven men died from overdose or as a result of long term drug use. The latest suspected overdose at Donaldson was this week.

“There is so much dope in here, and when guys feel hopeless, getting high is kind of like slow suicide,” said a man incarcerated at Donaldson. “Plus, there’s no guards here. We are so short-staffed, there’s literally nobody here we can go to when we need help. This prison is a ghost town.”
I started reading up on the Alabama DOC at the start of this case and what I found was beyond horrifying. While prison is not supposed to be a fun time, what goes on in Alabama prisons is beyond inhumane. It would be no surprise to me for an inmate there to confess to ANYTHING in order to get out of there. Or escape. Donaldson is particularly heinous.

I hope the Department of Justice is successful in their takeover bid because Alabama has created a nightmare and I have zero confidence in their ability to fix it themselves. IMO
 

Imogenia

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I don't believe a jail can force medication in the face of refusal either. Absent an order from a judge we can't force any adult patient to take medication without their consent. Perhaps there were orders on Casey and we just haven't heard about them yet. If Casey was on Invega Trinza and only needed an injection every 3 months as opposed to daily meds that are being assumed here, he may have been perfectly medicated for the entire duration of the escape. We just don't know.

When/if the Connie Ridgeway trial takes place I expect to see the complete details of CW's treatment history and medications given he is using an insanity defense. All we can really do until then is guess.

Totally agree about the "mind of matter" business. That's like saying a diabetic patient could lower their blood sugar if they just thought about it hard enough. It doesn't work that way. IMO

I don’t know if anyone was reliably diagnosed with schizophrenia, or had been prescribed long acting antipsychotic depot injections, or oral antipsychotics.

I totally agree that the majority of people with schizophrenia will relapse very badly if they stop taking the prescribed antipsychotic medication (after a period of time), and that subsequent control of the illness with restarted medication will be much more difficult, over the longer term. That is putting it mildly.

Psychiatrists researching ‘the schizophrenias’, have long thought (for twenty years or so at least) that maybe 20% of patients could stop their medication, but they had no idea of which patients would be in this group. It was not seen as clinically worth the risk of stopping the medication ‘to see how the patients fared’, because the longer term adverse effects on 80% of patients would be so dreadful.

At one time, not so long before this, it was thought a good idea for patients to have ‘drug holidays’ from antipsychotic medication, but this did not work out well.

The article that I have linked from Denmark seems to suggest that a higher percentage of people diagnosed with schizophrenia might, after some time, be able to cope without taking antipsychotic medication. I think that many psychiatrists will view this with extreme caution.

I think that the research shows, as has already been stated, that schizophrenia is a biological illness, and, just as people with Type 1 diabetes need insulin, people diagnosed with schizophrenia need antipsychotic medication.

I am not qualified to explain why some people can stop the antipsychotic medication without having a relapse.

I know that psychiatrists have discussed this phenomenon, stating that we don’t know everything about the brain. Maybe some patients never really had schizophrenia, perhaps their diagnosis was more akin to something like a schizophreniform psychosis. Some opine we should more correctly speak of ‘the schizophrenias’.

I would never advise a person diagnosed with any psychosis to stop their prescribed medication as, (in my opinion), the result is likely not worth the risk.
 

Betty P

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Another murderer escaped from the Alabama DOC yesterday in Mobile, AL.


At least this sounds like a minimum security facility where inmates work at jobs in the community. Assume they aren't allowed to do this if they're a danger to the public. Still, it doesn't seem like a good idea to walk away when you're presumably close to being released.

 

Luna20

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I don't believe a jail can force medication in the face of refusal either. Absent an order from a judge we can't force any adult patient to take medication without their consent. Perhaps there were orders on Casey and we just haven't heard about them yet. If Casey was on Invega Trinza and only needed an injection every 3 months as opposed to daily meds that are being assumed here, he may have been perfectly medicated for the entire duration of the escape. We just don't know.

When/if the Connie Ridgeway trial takes place I expect to see the complete details of CW's treatment history and medications given he is using an insanity defense. All we can really do until then is guess.

Totally agree about the "mind of matter" business. That's like saying a diabetic patient could lower their blood sugar if they just thought about it hard enough. It doesn't work that way. IMO

@CharlestonGal Im not familiar with the Ridgeway case, how does it relate to CW’s history? TIA
 
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