Recovered/Located AL - Casey White, prisoner, & Vicky Sue White (Deceased), CO w/sher office, Lauderdale, 29 Apr'22 *Reward* #7

BeginnerSleuther

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In your opinion, would an abrupt stop in taking many of those meds cause any serious side effects/withdrawal symptoms? At 11 days out would he be through the worst of the side effects?

It depends on the meds. With many psych meds, the withdrawal is uncomfortable but not dangerous or there's no clinical withdrawal at all. With other psych meds, it can be life-threatening. Can't way without knowing what meds he was taking.
 

5W's

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RBBM Well breaking out of Jail was a risk of life. And I am sorry but Mental health meds are not a mind over matter. <modsnip>
I see your point of view and agree with it mostly, but cognitive therapy can work also. I've heard where people with schizophrenia were treated cognitively and it was sucsessful. I guess that's the wording I should have used instead of "mind over matter," my bad, sorry.
 

5W's

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I don't believe a jail can force medication in the face of refusal either. Absent an order from a judge we can't force any adult patient to take medication without their consent. Perhaps there were orders on Casey and we just haven't heard about them yet. If Casey was on Invega Trinza and only needed an injection every 3 months as opposed to daily meds that are being assumed here, he may have been perfectly medicated for the entire duration of the escape. We just don't know.

When/if the Connie Ridgeway trial takes place I expect to see the complete details of CW's treatment history and medications given he is using an insanity defense. All we can really do until then is guess.

Totally agree about the "mind of matter" business. That's like saying a diabetic patient could lower their blood sugar if they just thought about it hard enough. It doesn't work that way. IMO
Sorry, I profusely apologize I was referring to cognition or in particular cognitive therapy that has been successful with schizophrenia (and other types of mental health illnesses) patients that I have heard of. My bad.
 

5W's

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I have just stumbled across an amazing summary of WAAY13 media(local Alabama tv station) with links to their MSM coverage of the case. There are well over 60 links to everything from articles, tv news stories and press conferences. It was most recently updated three days ago.

That is helpful. I saw previous coverage on this case with WAAY, it had helpful detail. I think I saw other cases that interested me also. Thanks.
 

5W's

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The brother of a slain Sheffield police officer says there was another side to former Lauderdale County jail supervisor Vicky White other than what was portrayed on the news while she was on the run with capital murder suspect Casey White.



The Lauderdale County District Attorney’s Office posted this: “Rest in Peace Vicky White. I choose not to judge her on the worst decision she ever made in her life.”
I'm sorry, but VW put on a facade every morning and she was good at fooling people. The fact that she was giving CW extra priveledges and attention should have concerned her peers who worked with her on a daily basis. Perhaps if an inmate spoke up and it was overlooked by those direct peers it should have been considered by her supervisors. Personally I think her peers did a disservice to the public. I see the point the gentleman is making but I don't think he was a peer working daily at the jail who oversaw how inmates were being treated by the jailers as VW was.
 

5W's

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Over coffee this morning I very carefully read the complaint in United States v State of Alabama and Alabama Department of Corrections - https://www.justice.gov/crt/case-document/file/1415536/download - and have suddenly gained clarity into this case and why Casey White did the things he did and why Vicky White did the things she did. Questions that perplexed me from the beginning of this case are all answered in gruesome detail in the attached court complaint.

I now understand completely why Vicky White was willing to risk her life, and his, in order to get him out of there. I understand that some may disagree with me and say that this escape is solely Vicky White's personal responsibility, but a close read of the linked document actually makes the actions of both Casey White and Vicky White almost rational under the circumstances. I wouldn't leave a dog in such a dangerous, abusive and sick environment like that, much less a human being. I am appalled and ashamed that we are treating human beings like this and I feel ill after reading all that. IMO
In Canada we have a liberal system of a lot of things but we can't help a culture such as in jail. Its horrible. At the same time its brought from the outside into the jail environment sadly. It is everywhere even in the most liberal places. It is so awful that juveniles have to be seperated from adults even if the juvenile's crime is equivelent to an adult's. That is telling IMO. We hear stories all the time here about our jail system so again its the culture being brought into the jail. At mealtime for example an inmate can throw soup at another inmate for whatever (no) reason and seriously injure the other prisoner. All we can do is charge (more jail time for the attacker) the attacker and tend to the injured inmate. So even if the lawsuit is successful it will be in vain I'm afraid. Yes, its extremely sad and upsetting, for me it is anyways. It shouldn't happen. I can't see it getting better when the culture is such outside in society, only 23 hour a day solitary lockup with solitary everything will eliminate prisoner on prisoner abuse. Jailers can be fired and pay eliminated but prisoner on prisoner abuse is what is brought in from outside.
 

5W's

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Frankly, I think everyone currently in the custody of the AL DOC is in dire need of care, supervision and safety. All of them. In my opinion, when the state takes custody of someone, whether that is a child through CPS, an inmate through the courts, or a patient in a mental hospital the state is then required to provide proper care for that person. And it's evident through the court documents that I've previously linked that AL DOC is failing on every single measure of humane and responsible treatment for the people they've taken custody of.

It's now been five years since the court issued all kinds of injunctions and demands on the AL DOC, none of which they've complied with. In fact, the rates of everything - homicide, suicide, rape, assault - have done nothing but go UP in the last 5 years. I don't understand why it's taken the US Department of Justice this long to step in an attempt to wrest control from the AL DOC. It's about time, but that's 5 years too late, in my opinion.

If I were stuck in that barbaric system with no help or end in sight I might just escape too, or die trying. Or confess to a murder I didn't even commit.

It's a fair assumption that Vicky White knew how bad things were at Donaldson and the other state prisons, not just from Casey's accounts but also from the stories from all the other inmates who have been cycling through that system for years. She probably heard about it daily. And it's not like she could go out and advocate for prison reform in AL. They'd have fired her on the spot.

I don't agree with what Vicky White did and I am not advocating committing crimes to change the system. But I have come to an uncomfortable understanding (not defense) of what happened here. And I understand Vicky's symbolic gesture of dropping her retirement paperwork on her way out. It was her way of officially saying, "I'm done with you people and your system."

All my own humble opinion.
I'm sure he was being dramatic because he was upset. MOO.
 

SMK777

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concernedmother

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Arkay

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They gave the guy $100
I've thought since we first heard that they paid a guy to use his ID to rent a room that it probably wasn't a criminal act, since he didn't know they were fugitives.

Of course it's not an upright act, either----it's clearly shady that a couple needed his ID because they couldn't use their own.

But it's unsettling that the guy turns out to be a sex offender who is in jail now on a drug charge. I understand that as a homeless person he would take the money, but ugh. Glad he's in jail so that he can't use that money to re-offend.

Jmo
 

Willow Knight

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I've had that impression too since Sheriff Singleton said he was going to violate CW's civil rights once he got CW back in his custody. On one hand you've got bad conditions in Alabama DOC where apparently CW claimed to have made a false confession to get out of Alabama DOC then on the other hand if Sheriff Singleton in Lauderdale County was prone to discussing violating inmates civil rights, VW could have seen CW as a victim who was misunderstood and just needed proper medication and supervision, not that it excuses her actions.
This, this, this. From the moment I heard Sheriff Singleton make that statement I was angry, sad, and outraged.

"When policemen break the law, then there isn't any law - just a fight for survival." - Billy Jack - Tom Laughlin

I would love to know if sheriff Singleton carried through with his intention to commit this crime, or if he was simply spilling words.
 

CharlestonGal

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This, this, this. From the moment I heard Sheriff Singleton make that statement I was angry, sad, and outraged.

"When policemen break the law, then there isn't any law - just a fight for survival." - Billy Jack - Tom Laughlin

I would love to know if sheriff Singleton carried through with his intention to commit this crime, or if he was simply spilling words.
The sheriff didn't get the chance. Inmate White was taken straight from Indiana to the Lauderdale County Courthouse for arraignment on the escape charge and transported from there directly back to Donaldson state prison. He did not go to the sheriff's jail.

I imagine someone will ask for a change of venue for Ms Ridgeway's murder trial so that inmate White is never placed back at Lauderdale County jail. I don't know how the escape charge will be handled. Do prisoners actually go to trial for that or is that something handled internally in the prison system? I have no idea. IMO

 

WingsOverTX

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I'm sorry, but VW put on a facade every morning and she was good at fooling people. The fact that she was giving CW extra priveledges and attention should have concerned her peers who worked with her on a daily basis. Perhaps if an inmate spoke up and it was overlooked by those direct peers it should have been considered by her supervisors. Personally I think her peers did a disservice to the public. I see the point the gentleman is making but I don't think he was a peer working daily at the jail who oversaw how inmates were being treated by the jailers as VW was.
I respect what you are saying.

Unfortunately, all kinds of jeopardy attaches to reporting of staff & inmate misbehavior in jails or prisons. I don't think that reporting would be believed or rewarded 99% of the time, no matter who reported it.

VW's coworkers in particular would have also been in a tough spot due not only to her authority, but also her seniority.

I have always been the type of person to report misbehaviors but very few workplaces respond in a positive way - in fact as is well known among whistleblowers, be careful what and to whom you report even egregious behaviors. Only in the oil industry did I ever hear "push back" as an active, acceptable response to management. And my direct manager did not respect it.

I do think JB, the CO in charge of the facility, could have made some headway in a culture where all kinds of snitches get stitches. But with population turnover, funding issues and a "look the other way" mentality, it will always be difficult to impossible without rethinking CO culture completely.

I sincerely wish it were not so.

JUST MY OPINION
 

PhoneJockey

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I've thought since we first heard that they paid a guy to use his ID to rent a room that it probably wasn't a criminal act, since he didn't know they were fugitives.

Of course it's not an upright act, either----it's clearly shady that a couple needed his ID because they couldn't use their own.

But it's unsettling that the guy turns out to be a sex offender who is in jail now on a drug charge. I understand that as a homeless person he would take the money, but ugh. Glad he's in jail so that he can't use that money to re-offend.

Jmo
That $100 was gone the same day he got it IMO!
 

branmuffin

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I don't see how she could have purchased the CW's antipsych meds. illeagally. I mean it would be potentially dangerous because its on the black market. How would they know if it was the right dosage or it was safe at all. Personally I don't think VW would take that chance and risk CW's life. I believe he was not medicated during the period of his escape. We don't have reports saying that VW took his meds. from the jail (I guess jail dispensary.) I would think meds. would only be dealt by a medical professional in the jail and would be off limits to non medical professionals 24/7. I can see him being medicated for the day of the escape but not afterwards. Sometimes its a mind over matter sort of thing. Maybe because he was relatively comfortable he he was okay wihout his meds.

In that jail? It was probably self serve.
 

Lilibet

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I'm sure he was being dramatic because he was upset. MOO.

<modsnip>

Of course CW was ”upset” about those dangerous conditions. Regardless of his crimes, he is a human being, not an animal. He had not been sentenced to the dangerous and disgusting treatment doled out at his prison. He was not being “dramatic.” The examples laid out in the DOJ’s lawsuit are horrendous. I absolutely don’t agree with VW releasing this dangerous man for any reason. We have been trying to figure out her reasons and have made many assumptions. But like @CharlestonGal, I get that her reasons may have been much more than just a personal desire to be with CW in a hotel room, even if misguided. It’s by no means an excuse or noble, but based on what her friends and family say about the kind and “motherly” way she treated everyone, it makes more sense to me that VW was trying to keep CW out of the hellhole that is Donaldson. We will never know, unfortunately.
JMO MOO
 
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Willow Knight

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I also am beginning to understand the possible reason VW did what she did. This case had many people wondering why/how a person with her work history, with friends and family stating what a good person she was, throw it all away. I'm conflicted over if it was love or not wanting to send a person she loved back to that place. I don't know. It was wrong to release a prisoner, and dangerous to the public.

I wonder if VW would have made the same decision if CW was being housed in a more humane prison?


(It appears this death was in 2021)

Two Alabama correctional officers were arrested on Tuesday and charged in connection with the April death of an incarcerated man at William E. Donaldson Correctional Facility after he became stuck in the door to his cell, according to jail records and a source with knowledge of the incident.

The U.S. Department of Justice’s ongoing lawsuit against the state alleges Alabama fails to protect prisoners from violence, death, unsafe and unsanitary conditions, and if the state fails to respond to the federal government’s concerns adequately, the suit could result in court-ordered federal oversight of Alabama’s prison system.
 
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