Recovered/Located AL - Casey White, prisoner, & Vicky Sue White (Deceased), CO w/sher office, Lauderdale, 29 Apr'22 *Reward* #7

5W's

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
864
Reaction score
3,228
<modsnip>

Of course CW was ”upset” about those dangerous conditions. Regardless of his crimes, he is a human being, not an animal. He had not been sentenced to the dangerous and disgusting treatment doled out at his prison. He was not being “dramatic.” The examples laid out in the DOJ’s lawsuit are horrendous. I absolutely don’t agree with VW releasing this dangerous man for any reason. We have been trying to figure out her reasons and have made many assumptions. But like @CharlestonGal, I get that her reasons may have been much more than just a personal desire to be with CW in a hotel room, even if misguided. It’s by no means an excuse or noble, but based on what her friends and family say about the kind and “motherly” way she treated everyone, it makes more sense to me that VW was trying to keep CW out of the hellhole that is Donaldson. We will never know, unfortunately.
JMO MOO
I was talking about Sheriff Singleton. I was commenting to the post as Sheriff Singleton IMO was being dramatic in the comments he was making because he was upset. As I've always said CW has his rights to be treated fairly and innocent until proven guilty. No dispute with that. But Sheriff Singleton was saying "I'll have to deal with civil right lawyers bring them on" or something to that degree. He was upst and just verbalizing it. I personally don't think he meant it just melodramatic.
<modsnip>

Of course CW was ”upset” about those dangerous conditions. Regardless of his crimes, he is a human being, not an animal. He had not been sentenced to the dangerous and disgusting treatment doled out at his prison. He was not being “dramatic.” The examples laid out in the DOJ’s lawsuit are horrendous. I absolutely don’t agree with VW releasing this dangerous man for any reason. We have been trying to figure out her reasons and have made many assumptions. But like @CharlestonGal, I get that her reasons may have been much more than just a personal desire to be with CW in a hotel room, even if misguided. It’s by no means an excuse or noble, but based on what her friends and family say about the kind and “motherly” way she treated everyone, it makes more sense to me that VW was trying to keep CW out of the hellhole that is Donaldson. We will never know, unfortunately.
JMO MOO
I see your point but unfortunately jail is like this everywhere it really is prisoner on prisoner abuse. I had given an example of an incident that could take place at mealtime for example, how is a jailer suppose to predict an inmate's reaction. Its impossible. Sure the jail could have more cameras to protect inmates, transfer prisoners but that is after the fact of injury. So it is not an easy solution because at some point priveledges are going to be granted or not for good behaviour I'm talking about. Its probably easier said than done that commit a crime do your time and get out on good behaviour. Honestly we don't know how jails work. I would think Federal with the most violent criminals would be a challenging place, perhaps. I suppose a prisoner could ask for solitary if they wanted to serve time and get out. What I understand is jail in minimum security is probably the least challenging to not have prisoner on prisoner abuse.
 

5W's

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
864
Reaction score
3,228
I respect what you are saying.

Unfortunately, all kinds of jeopardy attaches to reporting of staff & inmate misbehavior in jails or prisons. I don't think that reporting would be believed or rewarded 99% of the time, no matter who reported it.

VW's coworkers in particular would have also been in a tough spot due not only to her authority, but also her seniority.

I have always been the type of person to report misbehaviors but very few workplaces respond in a positive way - in fact as is well known among whistleblowers, be careful what and to whom you report even egregious behaviors. Only in the oil industry did I ever hear "push back" as an active, acceptable response to management. And my direct manager did not respect it.

I do think JB, the CO in charge of the facility, could have made some headway in a culture where all kinds of snitches get stitches. But with population turnover, funding issues and a "look the other way" mentality, it will always be difficult to impossible without rethinking CO culture completely.

I sincerely wish it were not so.

JUST MY OPINION
I agree. Her supervisors in the end were responsible.
 

Elley Mae

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
20,060
Reaction score
29,424
“All precautions were in place,” Singleton said. “The questions we have for Director White is why she violated policy.”

Other officers likely didn’t push back against Vicky White because she was second-in-command at the facility, the sheriff said.

“Being the boss and over the transport, she just informed the booking officer that she was going to carry him to the courthouse and drop him off, which was a flagrant violation of policy. But I’m sure because it was her boss, the booking officer didn’t question it,” he explained.

 

CharlestonGal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
5,141
Reaction score
40,324
“All precautions were in place,” Singleton said. “The questions we have for Director White is why she violated policy.”

Other officers likely didn’t push back against Vicky White because she was second-in-command at the facility, the sheriff said.

“Being the boss and over the transport, she just informed the booking officer that she was going to carry him to the courthouse and drop him off, which was a flagrant violation of policy. But I’m sure because it was her boss, the booking officer didn’t question it,” he explained.

But see, all precautions were NOT in place. Granted, I worked in a prison and not a county jail but corrections is corrections. Transportation of prisoners begins with documentation or court orders that inmates are to be moved to a certain place - court, work release, a hospital, another facility. A schedule is made in advance so transport knows how many inmates are to be moved, to where, how many transport vehicles will be required, how many armed escorts. It's a whole complicated process involving numerous people.

When a transport van leaves the facility, county or city police dispatch is notified of the transport, its destination, how many prisoners are aboard and an ETA of the destination arrival. Upon arrival notification is made to the departed facility and to dispatch that the transport is complete. If the inmates are then turned over to a 3rd party, such as a work release supervisor or deputies at the county jail, the receiving party also confirms to the facility that they are now in control of the inmates. And so forth.

Lauderdale County followed NONE of these procedures. If they had, even after VW failed to follow all the transport procedures in the previous paragraph and just walked out with CW, their disappearance should have been discovered within minutes when VW failed to report arrival at the court house and receiving deputies at the court house failed to confirm they had assumed custody of CW.

Vicky White knew no precautions were in place. She knew no one was expecting her positive report of arrival at the court house and she knew no one was expecting a positive report from the receiving deputies at the court house. That city/county didn't expect reports to dispatch either.

For the sheriff to state all precautions were in place, my question is what were those precautions exactly? Because it seemingly was none of the above. IMO
 

missingm

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
866
Reaction score
4,328
But see, all precautions were NOT in place. Granted, I worked in a prison and not a county jail but corrections is corrections. Transportation of prisoners begins with documentation or court orders that inmates are to be moved to a certain place - court, work release, a hospital, another facility. A schedule is made in advance so transport knows how many inmates are to be moved, to where, how many transport vehicles will be required, how many armed escorts. It's a whole complicated process involving numerous people.

When a transport van leaves the facility, county or city police dispatch is notified of the transport, its destination, how many prisoners are aboard and an ETA of the destination arrival. Upon arrival notification is made to the departed facility and to dispatch that the transport is complete. If the inmates are then turned over to a 3rd party, such as a work release supervisor or deputies at the county jail, the receiving party also confirms to the facility that they are now in control of the inmates. And so forth.

Lauderdale County followed NONE of these procedures. If they had, even after VW failed to follow all the transport procedures in the previous paragraph and just walked out with CW, their disappearance should have been discovered within minutes when VW failed to report arrival at the court house and receiving deputies at the court house failed to confirm they had assumed custody of CW.

Vicky White knew no precautions were in place. She knew no one was expecting her positive report of arrival at the court house and she knew no one was expecting a positive report from the receiving deputies at the court house. That city/county didn't expect reports to dispatch either.

For the sheriff to state all precautions were in place, my question is what were those precautions exactly? Because it seemingly was none of the above. IMO
Excellent post. The lack of hand offs to dispatch tells me that this was a regular occurrence. Rules were bent except the unwritten rule of never questioning a superior.
 

Lilibet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
17,562
Reaction score
65,366
I was talking about Sheriff Singleton. I was commenting to the post as Sheriff Singleton IMO was being dramatic in the comments he was making because he was upset. As I've always said CW has his rights to be treated fairly and innocent until proven guilty. No dispute with that. But Sheriff Singleton was saying "I'll have to deal with civil right lawyers bring them on" or something to that degree. He was upst and just verbalizing it. I personally don't think he meant it just melodramatic.

I see your point but unfortunately jail is like this everywhere it really is prisoner on prisoner abuse. I had given an example of an incident that could take place at mealtime for example, how is a jailer suppose to predict an inmate's reaction. Its impossible. Sure the jail could have more cameras to protect inmates, transfer prisoners but that is after the fact of injury. So it is not an easy solution because at some point priveledges are going to be granted or not for good behaviour I'm talking about. Its probably easier said than done that commit a crime do your time and get out on good behaviour. Honestly we don't know how jails work. I would think Federal with the most violent criminals would be a challenging place, perhaps. I suppose a prisoner could ask for solitary if they wanted to serve time and get out. What I understand is jail in minimum security is probably the least challenging to not have prisoner on prisoner abuse.

I didn’t realize you were talking about Sheriff Singleton because the post you replied to didn’t mention him at all, but did mention CW. Thank you for clearing that up. :)

I agree that none of these prison issues are easily solved, but prisons are required to make an effort. The federal government knows how prisons are supposed to operate. According to the lawsuit filed against the Alabama Department of Corrections by the Department of Justice, they have made no effort to improve any of these egregious violations of prisoner rights over the course of several years.

Quoting from the lawsuit linked below…”The State of Alabama and the Alabama Department of Corrections (collectively, the State or Defendants) violate the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendment rights of these prisoners by failing to prevent prisoner-on-prisoner violence and sexual abuse, failing to protect prisoners from the use of excessive force by security staff,1 and failing to provide safe conditions of confinement.”


The details laid out in the lawsuit are hard to read, but I think it may provide some nuance regarding what VW did, as wrong as it was.
JMO
 

CharlestonGal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
5,141
Reaction score
40,324
I didn’t realize you were talking about Sheriff Singleton because the post you replied to didn’t mention him at all, but did mention CW. Thank you for clearing that up. :)

I agree that none of these prison issues are easily solved, but prisons are required to make an effort. The federal government knows how prisons are supposed to operate. According to the lawsuit filed against the Alabama Department of Corrections by the Department of Justice, they have made no effort to improve any of these egregious violations of prisoner rights over the course of several years.

Quoting from the lawsuit linked below…”The State of Alabama and the Alabama Department of Corrections (collectively, the State or Defendants) violate the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendment rights of these prisoners by failing to prevent prisoner-on-prisoner violence and sexual abuse, failing to protect prisoners from the use of excessive force by security staff,1 and failing to provide safe conditions of confinement.”


The details laid out in the lawsuit are hard to read, but I think it may provide some nuance regarding what VW did, as wrong as it was.
JMO
If you think the US lawsuit you linked is bad, you will be severely traumatized if you read the 646 page opinion I posted earlier. The inmates are definitely running those prisons. Due to overcrowding and lack of staff they are kept in dormitory style housing laid out bunk bed style with dozens of prisoners. They (the inmates) hang sheets from the top bunks to the bottom ones so the back of the dorm is completely out of view. That is where they do their drug deals, smoke meth, collect on drug debts, commit sexual assaults, beatings and murders. The guards do not remove these sheets and do not enter the dormitories for hours or even their entire shift. When a prisoner is stabbed or assaulted they (or other prisoners) have to get to the doors at the front and bang on them in order to get the attention of a guard. According to the court documents, all the prisoners carry a knife (or two) for self protection and stabbings happen daily.

Casey White himself was stabbed while at Donaldson, according to his former Attorney Dale Bryant. Former Attorney for Missing Murder Suspect Fears Ex-Client Might Attempt Suicide by Cop

I spent the majority of yesterday and on into the evening reading that 646 page opinion and it was like reading something from a barbaric third world country, not one of the states in the US. I wonder why they can't call in the National Guard or something? They definitely have a state of emergency going on there where dozens of people are dying by homicide, suicide and drug overdoses while in their care. And not doing a thing about it. Or maybe transferring inmates to other state prisons that have capacity? A Dateline or 20/20 investigation to light a fire under them?

The court case that generated that 646 page opinion started in 2014. Eight years ago. Eight years. Things have not changed in that time; in fact, the negative statistics have done nothing but go up every year.

And how's this for convoluted? A recommendation was made (in the 646 page opinion) that AL DOC implement a screening system of guards coming on shift in order to stop the flow of contraband (knives and drugs mostly) they were bringing in. But AL DOC stated they would have to set up a medical unit to safely detox the prisoners if the flow of drugs stopped (!). I mean, what???

I'm just ranting at this point, sorry everyone. But now that I'm officially retired I think I may have found my next mission in life. Not to rescue Casey White (lol) but to advocate prison reform. IMO

ETA: Also, here's the 62 page letter sent from the US Justice Department to AL DOC. It's a great synopsis of the 646 pages of the court opinion.
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,348
Reaction score
69,546
JMO, her supervisors aren't to blame, VW is.

She was fully capable of knowing the rules and consequences of breaking them. She put the general public in extreme danger with the poor choices she made. Allowing extremely violent offenders to leave the jail without proper safety precautions puts innocent people at risk if that prisoner escapes. Helping an extremely violent prisoner escape is beyond the pale. No excuses or sympathy for the choices VW made.

The public is extremely fortunate that LE was able to stop them before they could escape again. Can you imagine what would have happened next if, for example, they had wrecked the Cadillac, but LE was still far away? They would have carjacked (and probably killed) the next innocent person driving by. Many people could have died that day.
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,348
Reaction score
69,546

I thought most states were now requiring convicted felons to submit DNA samples. The federal government asked them to do so in 2011, I think, but not all are compliant in passing the law

 

CharlestonGal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
5,141
Reaction score
40,324

Arkay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Messages
1,102
Reaction score
16,738
I thought most states were now requiring convicted felons to submit DNA samples. The federal government asked them to do so in 2011, I think, but not all are compliant in passing the law


Trying to add weapons charges, maybe? To see if his DNA is on any of those firearms? Just a guess.

Another article about CW being ordered to give a DNA sample - from AL.com. Does not give a reason.
Also states that no attorney is listed for CW.


This is puzzling to me. I would have assumed someone in trouble with the law, over a span of many years and for multiple crimes, would already have his DNA on file.

I can only assume it may be what @CharlestonGal said about weapons. If it were about Mrs. RIdgeway, I would have assumed that they had already processed his DNA for that murder.

I really don't know why they wouldn't already have his DNA profile, but I guess they don't.
 

CharlestonGal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
5,141
Reaction score
40,324
This is puzzling to me. I would have assumed someone in trouble with the law, over a span of many years and for multiple crimes, would already have his DNA on file.

I can only assume it may be what @CharlestonGal said about weapons. If it were about Mrs. RIdgeway, I would have assumed that they had already processed his DNA for that murder.

I really don't know why they wouldn't already have his DNA profile, but I guess they don't.
I would assume they have his DNA for his trial. Death penalty case and all. It was supposed to start Apr 25th. Maybe they can't use DNA collected for one case in another? They probably need a whole new sample and chain of custody and testing and all that all over again if it's for a different case altogether? I'm guessing it has something to do with the escape but I can't imagine what. IMO
 

Unalienable Rights

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
1,713
Reaction score
9,868
I would assume they have his DNA for his trial. Death penalty case and all. It was supposed to start Apr 25th. Maybe they can't use DNA collected for one case in another? They probably need a whole new sample and chain of custody and testing and all that all over again if it's for a different case altogether? I'm guessing it has something to do with the escape but I can't imagine what. IMO

That's a good point that they might not be able to use DNA case collected in one case for another.

Since the investigation into the 2008 suicide death of his then girlfriend was recently reopened, I wonder if it could have anything to do with that case.
 

Seattle1

#LiveLikeLizzy
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
28,598
Reaction score
312,503
I thought most states were now requiring convicted felons to submit DNA samples. The federal government asked them to do so in 2011, I think, but not all are compliant in passing the law

I also thought it would be insane if CW's DNA is not on file but according to CNN report, this is a normal request by prosecutors. I suppose that makes sense for verification.

Prosecutors requested the DNA order in relation to the escape case, Lauderdale County District Attorney Chris Connolly said.

Such a request is routine, said Connolly, who couldn’t elaborate because the case is active.

Casey White’s attorney did not immediately respond to CNN’s request for comment.


 

LinasK

Verified insider- Mark Dribin case
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
25,666
Reaction score
14,479
That's a good point that they might not be able to use DNA case collected in one case for another.

Since the investigation into the 2008 suicide death of his then girlfriend was recently reopened, I wonder if it could have anything to do with that case.
That makes zero sense. Once a prisoners DNA is entered into CODIS, it's up for grabs as far as I know. If you have a serial killer, why wouldn't you be able to use their DNA in more than one case?
 

Caylee Advocate

RIP TARA
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,926
Reaction score
10,960


They couldn't pay me to stay in that place. How the heck could he have slept on a queen size mattress? Regardless, it would beat a 2' wide concrete slab (or metal frame) with a 4 to 5 inch thick gym mat for a mattress. o_O
 
Top