Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Jo in Calif, Dec 22, 2019.
And the entire English speaking world.
Hole is the term consistently used in Alabama by LE to describe a grave?
I'm south of Birmingham. The soil has a lot of clay and it's very hard to dig a hole in it, almost impossible when the weather has been dry. When we have to bury a pet we dig extra deep because of scavenging animals. Lately we've had lots of rain so the ground being hard probably wasn't an issue.
I'm not sure that's an "official" word. But saying she was buried in a hole is as likely as a "grave" when speaking of a hole dug to dispose of a body.
The likely fake text sounds so contrived as though it was trying to establish further evidence for the "two heavy set black men" fiction.
I'm not sure. My SIL has gone to 2 excellent rehabs with a long stint of sobriety in between. Most recently she's been sober since being a Mother, living on her own, stable job. Then randomly we started to notice changes in behavior that is suggestive of relapse. One of those being extreme defensiveness when we check in just to see where she's been/what she's been up to due to not hearing from her. She has an excellent support system, has been most recently sober for 2.5 years. We found out about a month ago that she had, indeed, relapsed. MOO
I'm not speculating on what happened . Dna on the fabric she was wrapped in will say a lot imo.
I agree - 1-2 years sober (in PHs case) really is still new to sobriety, and plenty of people relapse with far more time under their belt, too. Additionally, if she was drinking, she was already on a slippery slope.
While family support, good treatment etc is all really wonderful and important and increases the likelihood of long-term success to a point, it sadly (as you know) doesn’t keep people from relapsing. I know a lot of addicts/alcoholics who had everything going for them in terms of best possible scenario that relapsed regardless.
We have no way of knowing where PH was at in her sobriety. Not sure drugs played a part in her demise at all...just speaking to the reality of addiction.
It kind of does if she meant that if the situation went bad, she intended to get away and would need a ride.
At this point, until we get evidence-based confirmation from LE that PH was at the bar, I'm not going to assume she was.
She was probably dead when that alleged text was sent.
BBM. Absolutely. Individual stage of change (mental health language) is intrinsic and not dependent on support system. In fact, in my experience personally and professionally, when one lacks the intrinsic motivation or has other underlying reasons for using (unresolved trauma, self medicating, etc), a strong support system whom checks in regularly, attempts to control access to money or where one goes and who they spend time with can lead to an increase in deceit/sneakiness. The intentions are generally positive on both ends but addiction isn't always based on how loved someone is and using isn't because one loves their family or friends any less. ETA: Not stating that addiction was at play in her disappearance but if it is, it doesn't mean she deserved what happened or is "responsible" for her own demise.
I think the "shallow grave" and "hole" and the "muddy and messy" and even "digging" all originated by the initial black female DA on the scene when we were all watching the live feed. She was very composed and professional, however this was not long after she had been a party to all that had just transpired. She knew not to give too much detailed or reveal more than LE would want, but she was improvising. (In the heat of the moment she revealed "female" and looked like she immediately regretted it.) I think if an attempt to dig a grave was made, but abandoned because of the difficulty (and knowing time was of the essence,) the suspect may have just tossed her in and threw the dirt over her although it was not enough to cover her up. Then took advantage of the trash and debris to cover her up completely, at least at initial glance. So yes, it was a shallow grave and a hole, sort of. Because of the incredible rains the area had, everything that touched the ground was a muddy mess and they would have to dig deeper than where they thought evidence ended. Even if they did not breach the earth, to get under all that debris, digging would be required. Why did it take so long? Even if they knew Thursday night a body was there, they wanted every single person involved in any plea deals or decision making there on site for everything - especially a possible death penalty case. They wanted to go slow and take time to remove and process everything. They may have seen her body in one place but you know they combed that entire area for other evidence including her phone, wallet, keys, etc. LE knows how many cases have been compromised by poor crime scene investigation. And can you imagine a worse crime scene? All that debris from who knows where and how many different people's trash. So much that they collect that could have nothing whatsoever to do with PH. Just a litterbug lesson for those of you that dump trash illegally - it may come back to haunt you! JMHO
ETA: DA instead of coroner - thanks Beth11311!
I just increasingly don't think she sent the message. Even "in trouble" sounds more like what people say when they have done something wrong themselves than when they are in danger. It's just not normal phrasing. Nothing about the text message makes sense from a logistical or phrasing or contextual standpoint as a woman with complete strangers she is uneasy with, to the point she wants to alert someone but not enough to give any useful information. There's not even a reference to the fact the person she is talking to would already know she was with strangers.
I don’t think the text sounds odd if she was partying and suddenly felt uncomfortable. Something must have happened right after that. (obviously)
That really is interesting to me. I've followed countless cases for decades, and this is honestly the first time I've ever heard LE refer to a human grave as a hole. Hence the reason it really stood out to me. It makes me think it actually was a hole already there in the ground, and not a freshly dug shallow grave.
No they don’t, unless you know something we don’t.
They said they have spoken to multiple people, but none of these people were identified as “eye witnesses.”
This would be hell of a lot simpler had law enforcement said that, as it would serve as verification that PH was actually there.
We don’t have that.
Can you provide a link? I haven't read any LE state anything about anyone seeing PH in the club, much less multiple people. Not being snarky, I would just love to see that LE confirmed it from others, not just the one friend story.
I don't see that house as a trap house. It seems a decent neighborhood with houses that are kept up outside so to many vehicles coming and going would be noticed at some point. Trap houses normally want easy access and exit so that vehicles can come and go without a chance but the street is a dead end. JMO but that house would cause to much suspicion. Especially if it is an older neighborhood where people are often at home. JMO
LE would know by now if the text was sent by PH & received by the friend. Someone would be behind bars if for no other reason than obstruction. jmo