AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 *arrests* #6

Outside of an apartment vs. a house on McClain, this lines up exactly with what I thought the outcome would be. (Post #48 in Thread #4)

We've all been pretty keyed on to the OD factor, but have steered clear of victim-blaming. Like, @sleepysleuth said, it's not good for someone recovering (especially so fresh into the recovery) to be at a bar...especially if they were vulnerable from an earlier argument or anything of the such. I believe the co-worker was being truthful. I also believe the co-worker likely knew what PH was going to do, and probably didn't immediately say it to her family.

This sucks, all around.

I have much empathy for PH's folks. The reality is as a recovering heroin addict, she was well-schooled in "handling" them. She lived under their roof where they lovingly believed they were protecting their daughter -- perhaps a false sense of security.

The signs to me that PH was vulnerable to accidental OD on 12/20 were immediate: within hours of reporting PH missing, her dad made the statement that PH plans for Friday night were to gather with her workmates at the TRB to spend time together and listen to music.

I believed this account of a seemingly safe, reasonable, pre-holiday outing was probably verbatim what dad heard from PH. I also posted how it had a sophomoric ring to me.

I also would not be surprised if PH alleged that her presence would be to look after a younger coworker that she perceived could be taking the ugly path that she took at her age.

To be fair, we have no verifiable info on the condition of the three friends that were at the TRB on Friday night. We don't know when they left TRB-- if one or all went home and passed out. We also don't know if they've done this before -- where PH would step-out to score and successfully return before their evening out was over-- or later find that PH made it home. (To be clear, I don't find FB group credible or verifiable regardless if PH mom a participant).

I think there's another missing piece. Investigators stated that there were multiple texts between PH and coworker but they only shared the final 12:15 AM text with the public. We don't know when the multiple texts occurred.

I think it's possible that just as PH would check in with her mother multiple times during her day, PH might do the same with the coworker she was out with-- especially if she was and had been using the coworker for her cover. (This is very typical behavior of an addict).

I find this would explain what's been deemed suspicious behavior on the part of the coworker -- right down to avoiding contact with PH's parents and the coworker's dad hiring an attorney to communicate with law enforcement on behalf of his own daughter (especially if she was a user). No matter how painful the information, I do believe that the coworker has been completely honest with authorities.

Most important -- nobody was responsible for 29-year-old PH actions to willingly leave the TRB and use but PH herself.

MOO
 
I have much empathy for PH's folks. The reality is as a recovering heroin addict, she was well-schooled in "handling" them. She lived under their roof where they lovingly believed they were protecting their daughter -- perhaps a false sense of security.

The signs to me that PH was vulnerable to accidental OD on 12/20 were immediate: within hours of reporting PH missing, her dad made the statement that PH plans for Friday night were to gather with her workmates at the TRB to spend time together and listen to music.

I believed this account of a seemingly safe, reasonable, pre-holiday outing was probably verbatim what dad heard from PH. I also posted how it had a sophomoric ring to me.

I also would not be surprised if PH alleged that her presence would be to look after a younger coworker that she perceived could be taking the ugly path that she took at her age.

To be fair, we have no verifiable info on the condition of the three friends that were at the TRB on Friday night. We don't know when they left TRB-- if one or all went home and passed out. We also don't know if they've done this before -- where PH would step-out to score and successfully return before their evening out was over-- or later find that PH made it home. (To be clear, I don't find FB group credible or verifiable regardless if PH mom a participant).

I think there's another missing piece. Investigators stated that there were multiple texts between PH and coworker but they only shared the final 12:15 AM text with the public. We don't know when the multiple texts occurred.

I think it's possible that just as PH would check in with her mother multiple times during her day, PH might do the same with the coworker she was out with-- especially if she was and had been using the coworker for her cover. (This is very typical behavior of an addict).

I find this would explain what's been deemed suspicious behavior on the part of the coworker -- right down to avoiding contact with PH's parents and the coworker's dad hiring an attorney to communicate with law enforcement on behalf of his own daughter (especially if she was a user). No matter how painful the information, I do believe that the coworker has been completely honest with authorities.

Most important -- nobody was responsible for 29-year-old PH actions to willingly leave the TRB and use but PH herself.

MOO

I agree with what you said above.

All of this below is MOO....

I don't doubt others were with her during the partying, now whether they were the coworkers or not, I'm unsure if we will ever know. She was a 29 year old woman with a lifetime of, oh, I don't want to say friendships, but acquaintances. I'm still unsure if she left with the intentions of doing hard drugs or not, my gut says no, that she just went to "party" and it took a different turn than she expected. This is only based on the timeframe of when she left versus of when she sent the text. She didn't immediately feel in danger, that leads me to believe she knew someone(s) that she left with.

I also feel like the text message was sent when she knew she was going to slip back into that darkness of drugs. I said from the beginning that I felt like she left with people she knew, but at some point those acquaintances left and she was left with people she did NOT know. At that time she sent the text, party atmosphere changed, she was no longer with people she knew, she felt unsafe, but not unsafe enough to ask for a ride or help RIGHT then, just "if I call, answer". Because of her addiction, we have to assume she wasn't a stranger to not-so-good areas or partying at empty houses.

I don't feel like she left with complete strangers though, like others, I do feel there are more dots to connect, but I don't think we will ever find them out. And I'm not sure other bad things didn't happen besides just the drugs. But I don't feel like others MADE her do anything. All of you are right that as a recovering addict, she never should have put herself in that place, everyone can foresee the sad ending. She probably thought she could do it, she had done it all of the times before and survived.

Such a sad ending :(
 
Ok. Now, after hopefully having my previous post removed, and again, my apologies for not being able to provide a link, I would like to go on the record with my opinion (for what it is worth LOL).
There are things that just do not jive with me. Many things. There were more actors in this play. The whole story has not come out yet. I do not have “proof” of my sixth sense that I inherited from my grandmother, and I imagine that not everyone is a believer in that anyway (like my husband of 24 years, even though he has witnessed it in action!). I do not claim to “know”, I just have a feeling. I know a lot about addiction, but I do not believe that Paighton willingly took the speedball. I believe she was held down and someone else gave it to her. We may never find out any more of the details about that night. I hope we do.
 
BBM
Heroin shows up as morphine on toxicology reports, so we cannot rule out that she was using heroin when she died.
I'm not sure if that's true.
There is a metabolite that is unique to heroin which would show up in a drug test called 6-A1. If it was not in her system then she likely didn't use heroin.
Also, the ratio of codeine to morphine is another indicator.

Imo
 
I'm not sure if that's true.
There is a metabolite that is unique to heroin which would show up in a drug test called 6-A1. If it was not in her system then she likely didn't use heroin.
Also, the ratio of codeine to morphine is another indicator.

Imo
Apparently it's only the newest tests that pick that up. Heroin can be indistinguishable from morphine in minutes.

It's certainly possible they ruled out heroin, but I think it is still very possible she was using heroin.

How Long Does Heroin Stay in Your System? (Urine, Blood, Hair)

How Long Does Heroin Stay in Your System?
 
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I do not believe that Paighton willingly took the speedball. I believe she was held down and someone else gave it to her.

This line of thinking directly calls in to question the coroner's report.

"Yates concluded the cause of death as a morphine and methamphetamine toxicity and ruled the death to be accidental. This represents an overdose and is classified as a drug-opioid death."

Jefferson Co. Coroner rules Paighton Houston’s death accidental overdose

It further brings up an implied allegation of murder, or attempted murder, and/or other various charges that would be forthcoming, none of which, to my knowledge, have been announced by LE to date.

I take the coroner's report at face value, accidental overdose, classified as a drug/opioid death.
 
I have much empathy for PH's folks. The reality is as a recovering heroin addict, she was well-schooled in "handling" them. She lived under their roof where they lovingly believed they were protecting their daughter -- perhaps a false sense of security.

The signs to me that PH was vulnerable to accidental OD on 12/20 were immediate: within hours of reporting PH missing, her dad made the statement that PH plans for Friday night were to gather with her workmates at the TRB to spend time together and listen to music.

I believed this account of a seemingly safe, reasonable, pre-holiday outing was probably verbatim what dad heard from PH. I also posted how it had a sophomoric ring to me.

I also would not be surprised if PH alleged that her presence would be to look after a younger coworker that she perceived could be taking the ugly path that she took at her age.

To be fair, we have no verifiable info on the condition of the three friends that were at the TRB on Friday night. We don't know when they left TRB-- if one or all went home and passed out. We also don't know if they've done this before -- where PH would step-out to score and successfully return before their evening out was over-- or later find that PH made it home. (To be clear, I don't find FB group credible or verifiable regardless if PH mom a participant).

I think there's another missing piece. Investigators stated that there were multiple texts between PH and coworker but they only shared the final 12:15 AM text with the public. We don't know when the multiple texts occurred.

I think it's possible that just as PH would check in with her mother multiple times during her day, PH might do the same with the coworker she was out with-- especially if she was and had been using the coworker for her cover. (This is very typical behavior of an addict).

I find this would explain what's been deemed suspicious behavior on the part of the coworker -- right down to avoiding contact with PH's parents and the coworker's dad hiring an attorney to communicate with law enforcement on behalf of his own daughter (especially if she was a user). No matter how painful the information, I do believe that the coworker has been completely honest with authorities.

Most important -- nobody was responsible for 29-year-old PH actions to willingly leave the TRB and use but PH herself.

MOO

Very good post, but a couple of questions.
1. I never read in msm that three friends were with her.
2. Never read anything in msm about multiple texts
3. Your theory of watching over/protecting a young friend sounds like her BF post.
 
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This line of thinking directly calls in to question the coroner's report.

"Yates concluded the cause of death as a morphine and methamphetamine toxicity and ruled the death to be accidental. This represents an overdose and is classified as a drug-opioid death."

Jefferson Co. Coroner rules Paighton Houston’s death accidental overdose

It further brings up an implied allegation of murder, or attempted murder, and/or other various charges that would be forthcoming, none of which, to my knowledge, have been announced by LE to date.

I take the coroner's report at face value, accidental overdose, classified as a drug/opioid death.

How can you tell if it was accidental or not unless the coroner had witness info?
 
How can you tell if it was accidental or not unless the coroner had witness info?

It is not I who ruled it accidental, it is the coroner who did so. It is quite likely LE, and coroner, are privy to information that is not in the public domain.

IMO, it is possible that there is witness testimony supporting accidental overdose, but I have yet to see any such thing published. There could be DNA evidence supporting such a finding, say, only one set of prints on a syringe. There could be video of the act of shooting up. Who knows? Surely not I.

But to call in to question this coroners finding is something I personally would not do.
 
It is not I who ruled it accidental, it is the coroner who did so. It is quite likely LE, and coroner, are privy to information that is not in the public domain.

IMO, it is possible that there is witness testimony supporting accidental overdose, but I have yet to see any such thing published. There could be DNA evidence supporting such a finding, say, only one set of prints on a syringe. There could be video of the act of shooting up. Who knows? Surely not I.

But to call in to question this coroners finding is something I personally would not do.

Thanks, I didn't call in to question the coroners finding.
 
My question was how can you tell if the OD was accidental. If this is your answer, I don't understand.
I think this is an excellent question. I can only speculate there might certain physical tell-tale signs if the drugs were ingested willingly or forcibly. I have no clue what those signs might be, but maybe someone else might know?
 
Okay, I guess I'll say it in reverse and more clearly. If the concentration found in the examination is less than some number, for example LC50 (lethal concentration for 50% of test subjects) a medical examiner can safely report that the overdose was accidental since when someone is trying to intentionally kill themselves or someone else they're going to administer enough to definitely kill.

That having been said, it is only the medical examiner's job to make a finding of the cause and manner of death. "Accidental" does not imply she administered the drugs to herself nor does it imply someone administered them to her, it's only a conclusion that whoever administered it likely did not intend for it to kill her. Accidental.
 
Okay, I guess I'll say it in reverse and more clearly. If the concentration found in the examination is less than some number, for example LC50 (lethal concentration for 50% of test subjects) a medical examiner can safely report that the overdose was accidental since when someone is trying to intentionally kill themselves or someone else they're going to administer enough to definitely kill.

That having been said, it is only the medical examiner's job to make a finding of the cause and manner of death. "Accidental" does not imply she administered the drugs to herself nor does it imply someone administered them to her, it's only a conclusion that whoever administered it likely did not intend for it to kill her. Accidental.

Thanks. I got it now.
 
"He is accused of abuse of a corpse and also was wanted in Alabama for sex offender registration violations, the Marshals Service said.

Federal investigators are involved in the case and could bring charges, the Marshals Service said.
It is unclear whether Hampton has an attorney."

Paighton Houston death: Man who fled Alabama arrested in Ohio - CNN
 
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