GUILTY AL - Summer Moody, 17, fatally shot in Gravine Island burglary attempt, 15 April 2013

danzn16

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We are becoming a bleeding heart society and giving criminals more rights than they deserve. I, for one am sick and tired of criminals having more rights and more people fighting for them than the victims (and yes the convicted felon should not have had a gun and should go to prison for being in possesion of a fire arm.)

Why do I have to just let someone take the stuff I WORKED hard for? Or my nieghbors stuff? And let me tell you from experience that we have zero rights. We used to live in Stockton California (all my life). My husband had to start bringing his work truck home at night and it was full of tools (contruction). Everything was locked in a tool box or chained down because we had been burglarized before.

The very first night the truck was in the driveway I got up to feed my newborn twins and while making bottles at the kitchen sink saw a man going literally going through the back getting anything and everything that was loose ! So without thinking I just stared banging on the window and yelling "get out of there" and he ran. Woke my husband up and yes things were gone. Called 911 filed a report.
Two hours later, I woke up to a noise, woke my husband up who bolted outside and literally chased a guy off. Called 911 again, made a report. By this time all my kids were awake scared from all the commotion and we were tired, mad and beyond frusterated.
We all layed back down on pallets in the living room after talking my husband out of sleeping IN his truck for the rest of the night.

Not even an hour later as my husband is asleep and I'm still trying to comfort my kids (all 6 of them) and tell them they are safe and explain how they just wanted the tools Daddy has. But Daddy chased them off and they won't be back. Then, there it is again the sound of tools being banged around in the truck only this time about a half a second later someone trying the door nob... My husband is running for the door grabbing the baseball bat he laid next to us. My kids lost it..screaming bloody murder petrified someone is trying to get into the house. I'm already dialling 911 running to lock the door behind my husband to protect my children.

As I'm jumping up to lock it, I see my husband chasing two men down the street with a baseball bat. My husband is the most laid back, gental person I know. But knowing one of those guys were trying to come into our house ..I was scared to death for my husband. Thank God they jumped into a waiting car (with a third person driving) a few blocks away.

I called 911 again and told them to hurry this time(took over an hour each time before) because the guys tried to get into our house and my husband was chasing them with a bat and I can't see him anymore. I was told MY husband would go to jail if he harmed one hair on their heads and he should have stayed in the house and waited for police.
My husband comes home unhurt but madder than I'd ever seen him. What if they come back? Whats taking the police so long? I should take the kids and go but they are inconsolable and as I'm trying to carry them to the door they are flipping out thinking the men are outside still. They refuse to leave the safety of Daddy. I call family members who all come over within 5 minutes. After about 30 minutes my house is full and kids are calming down.
During this time we have all called 911 numerous times. They show up and threaten to take my husband to jail. We were told our "stuff" wasn't worth someones life and we should just let them take whatever they want while we wait for police. And, they told us not to bring the work truck home ever again because its the source of the problem.

So much truma these criminals caused still to this day. I should be able to have anything I want on my property without fear someone will steal it because they refuse to work for it like we did!
When did it become ok for people to take things that belong to other people? If we have the right to protect our entire property and everything on it regardless of its value people might think twice about victimizing innocents.

I don't take what doesn't belong to me, and I want the same in return. What little we have we worked hard for and earned honestly. Our weakness is making them stronger because they don't value human life or the laws we have set forth, but they know we do. I can kill a man if he enters my home..IF I feel threatened, yet that night I and my family were scared to death, but these guys kept coming back. I'm sure they have numerous vicims..but hey let them live right.....IMOO

I agree with everything you said. IMO people that dislike guns and never want to have one are just a product of a protected society. You would never hear someone say that that has truly feared for their life, that understands what it is like to be preyed upon. Taking guns away from citizens further strengthens the criminals. It is important to be able to protect ourselves. And you are right that criminals know that most people follow the law that protects mostly the criminals so they do as they please. They know you can't harm them so they steal your things, rape, murder, there is no fear for them only for us. The states that don't allow concealed carry have the highest crime rates, criminals don't fear us because we aren't protected outside our homes and only a small minority are even protected inside our homes. Imagine a situation like the movie Contagion or something similar where the are even more criminals than there are now, I truly wonder how many anti-gun people there would still be. We never know when something like could happen. Or when you could become a victim like the thousands here on websleuths. It's sad and so not understandable to me.
 

Steely Dan

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Dang in NC your dogs will be put down if they bite a trespasser sometimes. Not okay.

If you control your dog you have nothing to worry about. That includes putting a lock on your fence. JMO

You are wrong, the Federal government and most state (all that I know of) will prosecute you for murder if you are committing a felony and anyone gets killed. It doesn’t matter what you were doing. One famous case is the guy in St Louis who was sitting in a car 300 feet from a sting where the suspect fired on a Federal undercover office and the another office killed the suspect. He was charged with Murder, convicted and is serving life today.

I know that and I agree with that. However, this is a much different case. The person who shot them was committing a felony by using a long gun and having a felony record. They never found the gun the kids were alleged to have.

Also, I believe the law is that if you're robbing a place with an accomplice and the accomplice shoots someone then you are responsible for murder also. I don't believe the law is that if you're robbing a place with an accomplice and the owner shoots him and you run away that the owner can chase you down an kill you too. IIRC. I also believe they can't charge you with murder if they catch you.
 

mobeydick

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If you control your dog you have nothing to worry about. That includes putting a lock on your fence. JMO



I know that and I agree with that. However, this is a much different case. The person who shot them was committing a felony by using a long gun and having a felony record. They never found the gun the kids were alleged to have.

Also, I believe the law is that if you're robbing a place with an accomplice and the accomplice shoots someone then you are responsible for murder also. I don't believe the law is that if you're robbing a place with an accomplice and the owner shoots him and you run away that the owner can chase you down an kill you too. IIRC. I also believe they can't charge you with murder if they catch you.

You would be wrond in your belief!
 

Luckyswife

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Well you live in Stockton California. I am not judging, I am a California native and still have to visit on occasion (job related). When I was living there 20 years ago Stockton was a cesspool and apparently it hasn't improved.

My suggestion would be find a way to get out. Yes I know money can be tight but find a way to leave the state.

Also last time I checked California still let folks buy/own guns for home protection so the safety of your children should not be a concern. There are jobs in other states and the standard of living costs are MUCH MUCH lower. Think about it.

Its like a war zone now..much worse. We did move about an hour away to a small town (up towards the hills) and it is so much different here. But, in the last 6 years things have changed here as well. Its like gang members and thugs are trying to take over entire towns. Their coming into our small communties and wreaking havoic. Crime rate has skyrocketed. And we are already talking seriously about moving to another state. Its sad cause most of our family is here but we're sick of California!
Btw..we do have guns now and have taught all of our kids how to use each one. And we will if we need to!
 

Luckyswife

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I agree with everything you said. IMO people that dislike guns and never want to have one are just a product of a protected society. You would never hear someone say that that has truly feared for their life, that understands what it is like to be preyed upon. Taking guns away from citizens further strengthens the criminals. It is important to be able to protect ourselves. And you are right that criminals know that most people follow the law that protects mostly the criminals so they do as they please. They know you can't harm them so they steal your things, rape, murder, there is no fear for them only for us. The states that don't allow concealed carry have the highest crime rates, criminals don't fear us because we aren't protected outside our homes and only a small minority are even protected inside our homes. Imagine a situation like the movie Contagion or something similar where the are even more criminals than there are now, I truly wonder how many anti-gun people there would still be. We never know when something like could happen. Or when you could become a victim like the thousands here on websleuths. It's sad and so not understandable to me.

So true!
 

scapa

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I agree with everything you said. IMO people that dislike guns and never want to have one are just a product of a protected society. You would never hear someone say that that has truly feared for their life, that understands what it is like to be preyed upon.

No. In the first place, where I live anyway, police with weapons and training are my proxies in all sorts of situations where a gun might be called for. I pay for those police with taxes, aid them through my volunteer work, and generally try to avoid wherever possible situations where they might be required -- though that is not always possible, of course.

Next, people dislike guns and choose not to bear them for a great variety of excellent reasons. In my friend's case, guns carried by government-authorized state police on so-called official business wiped out most of her immediate and extended family. She hates guns, understandably. I hate them for a whole different set of reasons, and guess what? I too have been victimized by crime, and more than once, and I regard myself neither as smug or lily-livered.

Surely part of what's at issue in this case is who had which guns and what they did with them, and whether these actions were lawful. It seems clear that they may not have been. If not, then what first read as self-defense looks to me more like rank vigilantism. And that is no one's right.

s
 

WhoaIsMe

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How long does it take for our tax paid gun toting proxies to arrive once called? That makes all the difference when your life is hanging in the balance.

Lucky'sWife: The thing that the police failed to understand (as do most people who would look at your husband's tools as just "stuff') is that the things on that truck were a lot more than "stuff". Those tools mean food, shelter, lights, gas, water, fuel....survival. It is a fool that would only see "stuff"
 

scapa

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How long does it take for our tax paid gun toting proxies to arrive once called? That makes all the difference when your life is hanging in the balance.

BBM. With respect, there is no evidence that the lives of any of the shooters in this case were "hanging in the balance." They gave chase, fired their weapons (possibly carried illegally) and a young girl died needlessly. Trying to torque the facts to make this case a candidate for SYG or equivalent will simply set a dangerous precedent IMO and do little to deter criminality.

s
 

Sonya610

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BBM. With respect, there is no evidence that the lives of any of the shooters in this case were "hanging in the balance." They gave chase, fired their weapons (possibly carried illegally) and a young girl died needlessly. Trying to torque the facts to make this case a candidate for SYG or equivalent will simply set a dangerous precedent IMO and do little to deter criminality.

s

With all due respect YOU said you would not own a gun because the "police are your proxies".

Asking how long it would take for your proxies to arrive seems like a fair question. Many of us live in areas where it could take quite a while for the police to arrive. I would NEVER expect that the police would arrive in time to defend me if a break in or attack were occuring.
 

scapa

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With all due respect YOU said you would not own a gun because the "police are your proxies".

Asking how long it would take for your proxies to arrive seems like a fair question. Many of us live in areas where it could take quite a while for the police to arrive. I would NEVER expect that the police would arrive in time to defend me if a break in or attack were occuring.

I appreciate the avowedly respectful response. My own upthread was in reply to the suggestion that choosing not to own a gun was the response of bleeding hearts and other "products of a protected society." I absolutely dispute that claim and provided a few of many reasons for my position -- and am happy to argue it out in a more suitable forum. You are naturally free to disagree. Neither stance has much bearing on this case, IMO.

s
 

Sonya610

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My own upthread was in reply to the suggestion that choosing not to own a gun was the response of bleeding hearts and other "products of a protected society." I absolutely dispute that claim and provided a few of many reasons for my position -- and am happy to argue it out in a more suitable forum.

No, I don't think I would have any interest in arguing with you on another forum and I find the suggestion to be rather odd. If you suggested that in order to share lurid details of gun related atrocities I may reconsider though.

And yes, I do think the "protected society" comment was quite accurate.
 

Hejlena

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We have a similar case in Minnesota that happened this last month

http://abcnews.go.com/US/minnesota-...house-tied-earlier-burglary/story?id=17828144

I appreciate reading all of the opinions on the legal issues at hand. However, each case brings to mind one of my favorite quotes someone here at WS has under their signature (sorry, don't remember who):
"play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I know this sounds crass, but IMO it really is the bottom line when discussing victimhood in a case like this.
 

Steely Dan

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We have a similar case in Minnesota that happened this last month

http://abcnews.go.com/US/minnesota-...house-tied-earlier-burglary/story?id=17828144

I appreciate reading all of the opinions on the legal issues at hand. However, each case brings to mind one of my favorite quotes someone here at WS has under their signature (sorry, don't remember who):
"play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I know this sounds crass, but IMO it really is the bottom line when discussing victimhood in a case like this.

With all due respect. IMO, those aren't the same at all. In the OP case there are four teenagers running away after burglarizing some houses on an island. They are chased by two guys, one of which is a felon with a long gun. (A federal crime) one of them shot at the kids and killed a girl. The two guys who were chasing the kids said they had a gun, and yet the police never found one. I'm not sure I'd believe a felon in that case.

The one you posted is about people entering the guys home. When they're in the house it's legal to shoot them. However, this guy shot one of them and dragged him to the basement. He then claims the girl came running down the steps, even after hearing the gun shots, I'd think. He shot her and didn't kill her so he dragged her down and put a finishing shot into her head.

Then he kept the bodies over night (OT, but that's really, really creepy.) and didn't call the police until asking a friend about a lawyer. That is a very unbelievable story.

I guess both are the same in that they both stink of lies from the shooters. JMO
 

Hatfield

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We have a similar case in Minnesota that happened this last month

http://abcnews.go.com/US/minnesota-...house-tied-earlier-burglary/story?id=17828144

I appreciate reading all of the opinions on the legal issues at hand. However, each case brings to mind one of my favorite quotes someone here at WS has under their signature (sorry, don't remember who):
"play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I know this sounds crass, but IMO it really is the bottom line when discussing victimhood in a case like this.

IMO
Thanks.
I agree they are similar in the way I think you meant. Which is that the people that elect to engage in dangerous criminal activity can end up being harmed themselves because of that activity.

There are known risks to burglarizing things. If the burglars in both cases were not aware that someone on the other end may try to stop them, then that is their own stupid fault.

I am not saying that the people who ended up shooting them were legally justified in doing so in these specific bizarre cases, but I am saying that the burglars should have known that bad things like this could happen. And a totally legal deadly response could easily occur as well.
Playing with fire and getting burned....no surprise to me in these cases.

Here is something a burglar should always remember. The house they are choosing to rob could have an owner who is
-a cop
-another burglar
-a mentally ill person
-a gun enthusiast
-a military person
-a criminal
-a person who is suicidal
-or just a normal legally responsible citizan with a gun permit willing to use deadly force to protect themselves and their family

I think sometimes these burglars just think the people they are robbing are just old people's homes with elderly weak person inside who are going to just wimper and allow them to take whatever they want. Or a more stupid assumption like was maybe made in these 2 cases that nobody is home or around to stop them.
 

kentuckybound

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With all due respect. IMO, those aren't the same at all. In the OP case there are four teenagers running away after burglarizing some houses on an island. They are chased by two guys, one of which is a felon with a long gun. (A federal crime) one of them shot at the kids and killed a girl. The two guys who were chasing the kids said they had a gun, and yet the police never found one. I'm not sure I'd believe a felon in that case.

The one you posted is about people entering the guys home. When they're in the house it's legal to shoot them. However, this guy shot one of them and dragged him to the basement. He then claims the girl came running down the steps, even after hearing the gun shots, I'd think. He shot her and didn't kill her so he dragged her down and put a finishing shot into her head.

Then he kept the bodies over night (OT, but that's really, really creepy.) and didn't call the police until asking a friend about a lawyer. That is a very unbelievable story.

I guess both are the same in that they both stink of lies from the shooters. JMO

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/baldwin_county/briefing-for-gravine-island-shooting



Mack said investigators have recovered a .22 rifle and a knife the teens were armed with during the incident. He also said the teens had a .32 handgun that has not been recovered.


There were found with weapons....
 

Sonya610

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The one you posted is about people entering the guys home. When they're in the house it's legal to shoot them. However, this guy shot one of them and dragged him to the basement. He then claims the girl came running down the steps, even after hearing the gun shots, I'd think. He shot her and didn't kill her so he dragged her down and put a finishing shot into her head.

Then he kept the bodies over night (OT, but that's really, really creepy.) and didn't call the police until asking a friend about a lawyer. That is a very unbelievable story.


Yeah well I say if you break into someone's house and things get "creepy" then errrm....too bad. Guess you chose the wrong house when choosing a victim. Cry me a river.

In fact the MN guy should have dumped the bodies in a river, problem wouldn't have caused all of this media high drama and we wouldn't be discussing it (okay maybe it would have been a missing persons thread portraying the two thieves as innocent angels). If someone broke into my house I would just want to see the threat eliminated, but others may be more creative than I am.
 

danzn16

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We have a similar case in Minnesota that happened this last month

http://abcnews.go.com/US/minnesota-...house-tied-earlier-burglary/story?id=17828144

I appreciate reading all of the opinions on the legal issues at hand. However, each case brings to mind one of my favorite quotes someone here at WS has under their signature (sorry, don't remember who):
"play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I know this sounds crass, but IMO it really is the bottom line when discussing victimhood in a case like this.

Um whoa. Sounds like this dude is off his rocker. It's one thing to shoot intruders coming into our home, another to drag them to another spot after they have been shot, and then when you didn't kill one to go get another gun and shoot her execution style in the head. And then leave their bodies in your house over night. Crazy.
 

elainebenice

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The discussion in this thread and the facts of this case give me the chills b/c all I'm reminded of is law school and first year criminal law. :notgood:
 

WhoaIsMe

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With all due respect YOU said you would not own a gun because the "police are your proxies".

Asking how long it would take for your proxies to arrive seems like a fair question. Many of us live in areas where it could take quite a while for the police to arrive. I would NEVER expect that the police would arrive in time to defend me if a break in or attack were occuring.

This is exactly what my comment was in response to, and not this particular situation.

If somebody was in my home with intent to harm my family I would never expect police, who do don't live in my house, to be able to arrive in time to do anything other than investigate a crime that has already occurred. It would be fantastical of me to have any other expectations. IMO
 

Steely Dan

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I agree. If they were knowingly trespassing, which it appears to be the case, they are responsible for what happened to themselves. I don't understand how people can break the law but then turn around and expect others to behave according to higher standards. I'm going to trespass, steal and or vandalize, but don't confront me or try to scare me off with a gun. I expect you to let me have my fun at your expense- financial and sense of security.
MOO. And teens being teens does not fly either. IMO just because you are a teen doesn't make doing something illegal less illegal.

The guys who shot her didn't own any property on the island.
 
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