AL AL - Titus, Fem Skeletal 663UFAL, 30-40, shallow grave, bound in green tarp, Jul'07

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by chicoliving, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. mayqueen

    mayqueen Member

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    Respectfully snipped by me.

    The upright pentagram/pentacle is a Wiccan symbol, and the little sun, moon and stars around the border of the medallion seem to reinforce that this is a Wiccan charm. Many Wiccans wear an upright pentagram/pentacle as a symbol of their faith, as many Christians wear a cross.

    However, when inverted (turned upside down) the pentagram can be a sign of Satanism or dark magic. Which is why I'd really like to know how the symbol was oriented on the skull, because it makes a difference!

    ETA: I don't think it's just a trinket. I think it either points to (a) the victim's faith, (b) the perp's faith, OR, perhaps it was (c) placed there to throw investigators off track - to send them down the "devil worship" road and keep them from looking at the deceased's close associates should her identity be discovered.
     


  2. littlegreycells31

    littlegreycells31 Member

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    Does anyone know if this Doe has been checked against Tara Grinstead? They look similar and the distance from Ocilla to Titus, AL is not that far. The time and height and everything matches up. Could anyone find this out? I don't know how.

    Thanks!:seeya:

    PS - Mayqueen please post the name of rule outs when you find out. I would be interested to see if Tara is on there. Thank you!!
     
  3. summer_breeze

    summer_breeze New Member

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  4. raindrops300

    raindrops300 New Member

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    I agree this should be sent in. Did anyone submit?

    Dentals are available on both so it should be an easy rule out if it is.
     
  5. LolaG

    LolaG New Member

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  6. FiveFelines

    FiveFelines Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if someone screwed up when entering into Namus. I can't find any reference to the medallion except in the photo in the female UID's case file, and the male UID's case file refers to the medallion and says "see photo" but there is no photo.

    Both bodies were found in 2007. Also, the female's Doe profile lists a DoD of 2002-2007 but Namus lists 1950-2007, which is what they also list for the male. So curious!
     
  7. LolaG

    LolaG New Member

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    Thank you FiveFelines. When I fist read the UID woman's profile, I wrote to some owners of shops that sold pentagram jewelry. I got this helpful info. from a woman in Florida: "That is most definitely a pentagram of Pagan and/or Wiccan origin. The custom is called "Charon's obol" associated with the ancient Greeks and Romans. This is a custom (the term coined by archaeologists) to refer to a religious rite that serves as a symbol to help the deceased's passage into the afterlife. A "sustenance for the journey" if you will. It also helps protect the deceased's Soul. Most times a coin is used and placed over the deceased's eyes or in the mouth. But many burials have been discovered with the objects placed on other areas of the head most often the forehead. I hope this helps you some :) and just let me know if you need any more information or have any other questions and I will help you all I can.
    Thank you so much for sharing this with me!!!
    Many blessings!
    Kathy

    I forwarded this to the case manager listed in Namus, Scott Belton, and received a thank you reply. I then came across the Doe Network case of the UID male and sent him that info. Hopefully, if there is a screw-up, he will take notice. And if it isn't, hopefully some kind of connection can be made.
     
  8. JayFletcher6493

    JayFletcher6493 Member

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    this is such an interesting case.
     
  9. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Timeline Guru (Still Remembering Cupcake)

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  10. wordsick

    wordsick Member

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    I definitely think the medallion information got appended to this case by mistake. The same photograph appears in:
    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/5000
    an UID skull from the same general area and timeframe.
     
    devertere likes this.
  11. Bombshell

    Bombshell Member

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  12. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    It also tells us whoever did this did not know his forensic science.

    Lime does destroy a body but does so very slowly unless you use a very large quantity of it. Sprinkling a few handfuls on the body won't get you very far, and in certain circumstances it helps to preserve the body.

    Adding water to the lime creates slaked lime which is much more destructive, but it also generates heat which kills off all the bacteria which would normally consume the soft tissues so it tends to be self-defeating.
     
  13. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. It looks to me to be the sort of popular wiccan silver jewellery that almost all wiccans routinely wear.

    Agreed with caveats. Wiccans who belong to one of the initiatory traditions which originated in the UK, ie the Gardnerians and Alexandrians, use the orientation of the pentagram to denote 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree initiation. The 2nd degree uses an inverted pentagram. However it is obvious which way up an initiatory pentagram should go due to the fittings on the piece.

    It interests me that it was stuck onto the skull and I agree it would be good to know exactly where. I'm guessing it was laid on the forehead and was stuck to the bone by decomposition fluids. This makes me think of the circlets which high priests and priestesses tend to wear round their heads with a symbol on the forehead. At the top end these circlets can be of silver, cheaper ones can be woven from wire, or even a piece of velvet like a choker.

    See here for examples: https://www.eartisans.net/collections/handmade-circlets

    From the available details it sounds as though there was no circlet since even fabric probably wouldn't have rotted down completely. I'd suggest the pentagram was simply placed on her forehead and maybe it was luck that it wasn't dislodged.

    I'd also point out that there is an old tradition of the pentagram used as a symbol in Christianity - in the medieval period it symbolised the 5 wounds of Christ (I'm not sure if the side wound was ignored or whether the two wounds in the feet were counted as one since a single nail was supposed to have caused both) and was the device on the shield of Sir Gawain in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

    Agreed, it should be looked into.

    ETA that it might be worth circulating the reconstruction and details on pagan/wiccan forums in the SE. If she was part of the community someone would remember her.
     
  14. jodierenee

    jodierenee websleuth addict

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  15. KaylaraOwl

    KaylaraOwl Well-Known Member

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    I've been circulating this and a few other cases that might be related to the Pagan/Wiccan community around for a while. I have a very large network within the community. If anyone knows anything within the community, we'll hear about it. Wiccans love to gossip. 😝
     
  16. Melt71

    Melt71 Well-Known Member

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    Still UID. The photo of charm/pendant referred to in posts above has been removed from DoeNetwork - as someone pointed out above, it may have been wrongly posted to this case record, as it already exists in another UID case record from the same area.
    CASE NUMBER - 653UFAL
    The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

    Is there a public ruleout list someone with Namus acct could post? Lots of suggestions above, would be good to know if any were excluded.
     
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  17. victoriarobinson642

    victoriarobinson642 Well-Known Member

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    RULED OUT:
    Missing Person / NamUs # MP1321 Judie Wilding, Female, White / Caucasian
    Date of Last Contact April 1, 2000
    State AL
    County Montgomery
    -
    Missing Person / NamUs # MP2336 Chin Suk Beshears, Female, Asian
    Date of Last Contact December 16, 2001
    State AL
    County Jefferson
    -
    Missing Person / NamUs # MP4656 Lori Slesinski, Female, White / Caucasian
    Date of Last Contact June 10, 2006
    State AL
    County Lee
    -
    Missing Person / NamUs # MP5022 Melinda McGhee, Female, White / Caucasian
    Date of Last Contact March 24, 2003
    State AL
    County Escambia
    -
    Missing Person / NamUs # MP1325 Shannon Ellis, Female, White / Caucasian
    Date of Last Contact September 24, 2008
    State AL
    County Jefferson
    -
    Missing Person / NamUs # MP4166 Sherry Milton, Female, White / Caucasian
    Date of Last Contact August 15, 2005
    State AL
    County Jefferson
    -
    Missing Person / NamUs # MP2328 Traci Kegley, Female, White / Caucasian
    Date of Last Contact April 26, 1998
    State AL
    County Elmore
     
  18. Melt71

    Melt71 Well-Known Member

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    The excluded someone whose DLC was a year after this body was found? Way to bump your stats!

    Titus, AL is between Montgomery and Birmingham in central AL and not terribly close to state borders in any direction so unlikely to be a cross-border dump.
     

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