All things wood chipper

Discussion in 'Zahra Clare Baker' started by ynotdivein, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. ynotdivein

    ynotdivein Retired WS Staff

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    Interested to hear all WSer thoughts about the wood chipper. Did AB or EB use the one in their yard, or the one at his workplace, to dispose of physical evidence, or not?
     
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  3. docwho3

    docwho3 New Member

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    Graphic discussion alert
    Chipper no longer considered a 'solid lead'. I get that and have posted about same.

    I don't have any interest in just being gory-for-the-sake-of-gory in a post but the
    possibility of a chipper was put forth in MSM & it was said that cadaver dogs hit
    on the chipper and a mulch pile many times. From experience of past cases where some of our
    search & rescue members posted that these dogs will not hit on things other than
    on body decomp scent I took this lead very seriously.

    I think LE did too because if I remember right the news report spoke of around 50 investigators
    going over that property.

    Why does it matter whether or not a chipper was used on her remains? The requirements
    for transporting a full sized body are quite different than to transport and dispose of chips of bone.

    For instance you can take a conrete rock with the bone chips mixed in and dump it
    into the edge of a pond or lake or stream and people could walk right over it for years without
    knowing what was in it.

    You can transport a bag of mulch and bone chips in a burlap bag without arrousing suspicion
    as easily as you might if you were to carry a full sized body. And a body with flesh on
    it may smell bad and this too adds to the difficulty of transporting and where you can hide it.

    From a news report I learned that LE took out the plumbing of the bathroom,
    and I think also the kitchen, and this too matched up with previous cases that I have read
    in which the perp(s) dismembered and/or defleshed a body in order to make transportation
    and disposal of the remains easier.

    One might be willing to take a chance on being seen to toss a luggage bag with body pieces
    into the brush but one might not risk using the same spot to dump a full sized intact body.

    Knowing what happened to the body can matter in knowing where to look for its disposal.

    Thinking of such things is not easy and if I did not think it essential in some cases I would
    never do it. I don't even watch horror movies because I don't want that stuff floating
    around in my subconcious mind.

    In every case there are always some that think certain possibliltes should not be
    posted about or considered because it conflicts with their feelings about the victim.

    For example: Adult runaway cases always have some that don't want the runaway possibility
    spoken of because it seems to them to reflect poorly on the missing person.

    In murder cases some always don't like reading about what was done to the body
    even if it might help solve where the body is.
    And some don't like reading about a victim that hung out with a rough crowd because
    it seems disrespectful but that same rough crowd might be where the killer is eventually
    found.

    No wants us to post gore-for-the-sake-of-gore or to be purposely disrespectful
    of a victim but I would caution that we don't allow emotions to cause us to assume
    a post is bad just because it seems unpleasant to us. When I see a post I feel queasy about
    I ask myself if there might be good reasons for the post that I just do not yet see
    and sometimes I learn from the experience.
     
  4. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    I can not imagine a wood chipper being used to dispose of an actual body or body parts and then being made clean enough that a cadaver dog hit only on the the engine. The metal work of those things isn't even produced to food processing standards let alone surgical standards, it is designed to be able to be cleaned to the standard that gobs of sap and wood fibre aren't going to stop stuff moving through and that you can make it look nice for a new buyer if you sell it, not to any sort of real standard of cleanliness. Everything from the way bits are joined together to the paint or powder dipped finishes involved is designed with that low standard in mind.

    Not that he may not have chipped her and all, it is a possibility even though my mind says just burying her deep would cross a practical man's mind as making more sense, but I'm guessing if he did it was not with those particular chippers.
     
  5. pharmchick

    pharmchick New Member

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    IMO, now that it is being reported that a bone likely/possibly belonging to Zahra has been found, I'm finding it less likely that a woodchipper was involved in this way. To me, "bone" implies a whole or nearly whole bone, not a bone chip or fragment. Of course, there are a lot of facts not yet verified/being released to the public, so.... And docwho3 brings up an interesting point about the plumbing. The fact that LE keeps saying "pieces of evidence" rather than talking about recovering intact remains makes me think maybe her body was dismembered in some way.

    The fact that a woodchipper even has to be considered in any way makes me sick. What happened to poor Zahra?
     
  6. docwho3

    docwho3 New Member

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    The news article I remember reading did not specify which parts of the chipper
    were 'hit' on but mentioned the chipper and a mulch pile both being hit upon repeatedly.
    (If I remember it correctly.)

    That having been said, it now appears that perhaps something other than chipping
    might have been done if the bone reported to have been found was indeed Zahra's.
    I still do not know if that rules out other things such as a more normal dismemberment or defleshing.

    I do not hang on to an idea if new evidence comes forth that changes things.
    (Although I do like to make sure to confirm the new evidence.)
     
  7. darlin gal

    darlin gal New Member

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    Earlier this week, a K-9 unit alerted police to a wood chipper on the property. A K-9 unit dog handler told Channel 9 that the hit was not on the wood chipper itself but the engine, and the blood could have come from a cut on a workerÂ’s hand.

    http://www.wsoctv.com/news/25389806/detail.html



    K9 crews indicated earlier in the week that traces of human remains were found on wood processing equipment in an area where Baker's father once worked, but detectives with the Burke County Sheriff's Office said that is no longer a solid lead.
    http://charlotte.news14.com/content...ome-up-empty-so-far-as-zahra-search-continues



    Investigators also told us canines gave positive indication in Burke County at the wood pile they searched, but Thursday evening, investigators said that was not an accurate "hit" and that it wasn't a valid lead in their case.
    http://charlotte.news14.com/content/zahra_baker_case/zahra_baker_questions/
     
  8. docwho3

    docwho3 New Member

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    The article I saw when originally posting was at
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5890774/zahra_clare_baker_missing_dogs_alert.html?cat=17

    I have since seen these other links such as the ones you provided in your post. I went
    with the information I had at the time when originally posting and as I have already said,
    developments change things.
     
  9. LaLaw2000

    LaLaw2000 Louisiana

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    I am one of the ones who had posted about the wood chipper many threads ago. In fact; I posted two or maybe three times on the subject and certainly did not do it for the shock and awe of it.

    The finding of the bone today may show that the chipper was not involved in little Zahra's disposal. BUT, I do believe that either the splitter or a saw was involved in at least the disposal of evidence because of the small pieces of things we saw LE bagging from the back yard.

    I am sorry to say that I think there may be some dismemberment involved here. IIRC, there was a smell reported around an area and it was thought to be from the sewer. I do not have a link, so IIRC, someone stated that they saw EB and AB driving around late one night in the area of the mobile home they (EB and AB) had lived in. Then there was a really bad smell. It was then stated by a poster somewhere that no, there was a smell around different sewer manholes in different areas. Well, that would make sense if different parts were placed in manholes in different areas.

    Absolutely NOTHING would surprise me out of these two people, or even a third person. I have stated more than once that I believed there to be a third person involved, and that person would be someone EB trusted and is someone from her past. And I mean it is someone local.

    I hope I am very wrong. I really do, but something LE found out seemed to shake them and made it become a homicide investigation. There had to be a reason for that change so early on.

    We will see what other bones LE can find, but I personally feel that what was found today was the stump leg bone.

    Sorry for my graphic post. It sounds unfeeling of me, I know, but I have agonized over little Zahra. She was a precious child who had overcome seemingly insurmountable health problems and was still cheerful in spite of it.

    JMO
     
  10. LaLaw2000

    LaLaw2000 Louisiana

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    I know the cadaver dog hit on the engine only, but some engines can be changed from another piece of equipment. IOW, the engine may have been on another piece of equipment prior to that one. I wonder if the woodchipper and the woodsplitter has the same size engine.

    I still keep in mind the glove that was found in the back yard with the bad smelling 'goo' all over it.

    JMO
     
  11. belimom

    belimom Our lives begin to end the day we become silent ab

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    If you take the 'defleshing' (sorry...), the glove with red 'goo' inside that smelled really bad, and the bone, then I'm thinking really awful thoughts here. (I keep going back to that glove, found only a day or so before they changed it to a homicide case.)
     
  12. passionflower

    passionflower Just 1 tip to find a killer

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    IMO, dogs hitting BOTH woodchippers 12 miles away and AB knowing how to use the heavy equipment, EB's letter saying something horrifying happened after the fact, yes
    I think something went through the chippers and if a large bone is found by pond, other large bones may be there also.
    From reading from another thread here, AB/EB liked violent games.
    Fantasy became reality. JMOO
     
  13. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    I think the woodchipper IS involved somehow in this case. I'm not sure how, but I believe it/they is/are involved!

    JMO
     
  14. Yellow Rose

    Yellow Rose Well-Known Member

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    My sentiments exactly.
    Why bother saying something horrifying was done afterwards? It certainly did not HELP EB to say that. What could be more horrifying?
     
  15. grayjay

    grayjay Active Member

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    I'm not glued to the idea that the woodchipper was used, but it seems likely to me, because it was available and for all of the reasons posted up to now, by me and others. It's possible that they tried it, found it wasn't a good method for disposal, and changed strategies.

    I would also like to add, that experts who come on the Levi Page show have mentioned it repeatedly. I don't think we're way off in thinking it's a strong possibility, and clearly, LE doesn't show their whole hand.
     
  16. K9Snoop

    K9Snoop K9 Sar & Police SAR management

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    This could also be the result of scent transfer. If you have handled something you will have the odor of *that* on your hands or clothing and when next you handle or brush up against something, the odor will transfer to that item. The best visual example I can come up with is suppose that you have mud or dirt on your hands. If you handle or touch something you will be leaving some of that mud/dirt behind on the item. So if someone who had recently handled a deceased individual and then went to handle the controls of an engine it is conceivable that cadaver odor could be transfered to the engine which is what the dogs could be alerting on.
     
  17. Celt1997

    Celt1997 New Member

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    BBM.

    I'm thinking along these lines, as well. I don't get the feeling that they used the chipper to dispose of the body. It's far too messy, in that, there would have been evidence strewn everywhere.

    However, there may have been other evidence, clothing, furniture, or something else that was sent through the chipper. AB/EB/or whomever may have handled the body and then touched the engine in order to start the chipper, or fill it up with gas or oil. The transfer is made, and the dogs make the hit.
     
  18. DMBKelly

    DMBKelly New Member

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    I wonder if the digging around the house search related to the chipper? Would it be possible they did put the misc evidence maybe only clothes through it? As far as the furniture why would they dispose of the mattress with DNA in the landfill and not put it in the chipper as well..
     
  19. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

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    Going to drop my thought in here.

    I do NOT believe she was sent thru the woodchipper, any woodchipper for that matter.

    I do believe that lots of potential evidence went thru a chipper/chippers in the hopes of concealing said evidence. (Note to future criminals, sending things thru a chipper will make them smaller, but it doesn't get rid of it!)
     
  20. Paintr

    Paintr New Member

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    ITA, sarx. Whatever they put through the chipper, it wasn't the body. IMO The blow back and wide dispersal of the chipper would have made this impossible to conceal. Whoever operated the chipper would be buying lemons by the bushel basket and the dogs would be hitting everywhere.
     
  21. miabellamoure

    miabellamoure New Member

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    Until the bone discovered yesterday is positively identified as Zahra's...I am going to hold off on whether or not her remains could still have been processed through the woodchipper.

    I hope not...but, I have a feeling some part of her remains did meet up with the WC :(
     

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