Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

[Mani]

Wow, Mani, thank you for the pics. It certainly looks so much different from the ground as opposed to an arial shot. I just get an overwhelming sense of sadness when I look at these photos. What did you feel about the place when you were there today?

Makara - thank you for all the work you did all those weeks ago helping us with photos. You were amazing! :rocker:

1. I was surprised by the cleared flattened land on the northern side of the bridge. It is a larger area than I expected it to be from driving past.
2. From looking at the level of undergrowth in the surrounding area, I don't believe anyone could walk down there in the dark carrying a body and place it on the river bank.
It would be so difficult to know where you were stepping due to the undergrowth. You wouldn't know where the edge was as it is a slope.
3. It took some time for all of us to get our bearings and work out where Allison was actually placed, as at first, we thought she was further up the bank. However, we all came to the same conclusion - that she was in an area that was underwater at the time we were there.
4. The land had been cleared but you would expect that as it was a crime scene.
5. I didn't like the smell there. It doesn't smell good and the creek to me is very dirty looking but that is because it is tidal and muddy.
6. I didn't feel eerie, just very sad that Allison had probably floated down that creek to get to where she was and terrible it would have been.
7. My hubby tried to get to the opposite side of the creek, so as to take a photo from the opposite bank but was unable to as he couldn't see where the ground was as the undergrowth was too thick.

 

[linette]

Angel if you want to put your story on here go right ahead. Most of us have and it probably is very cathartic for you as well as for others.

Wow, I didn't people had put their own stories up. How do you know whose you're reading? Yeah, that's got to sound like a pretty dumb question, I know.:blushing:

 

[Mani]

Makara,

I can't speak for everyone today but my feeling is that Allison was not placed on the bank, but she floated down the creek to that spot. IMO

 

[Woombite]

Makara - thank you for all the work you did all those weeks ago helping us with photos. You were amazing! :rocker:

1. I was surprised by the cleared flattened land on the northern side of the bridge. It is a larger area than I expected it to be from driving past.
2. From looking at the level of undergrowth in the surrounding area, I don't believe anyone could walk down there in the dark carrying a body and place it on the river bank.
It would be so difficult to know where you were stepping due to the undergrowth. You wouldn't know where the edge was as it is a slope.
3. It took some time for all of us to get our bearings and work out where Allison was actually placed, as at first, we thought she was further up the bank. However, we all came to the same conclusion - that she was in an area that was underwater at the time we were there.
4. The land had been cleared but you would expect that as it was a crime scene.
5. I didn't like the smell there. It doesn't smell good and the creek to me is very dirty looking but that is because it is tidal and muddy.
6. I didn't feel eerie, just very sad that Allison had been in the creek and how yucky it was.
7. My hubby tried to get to the opposite side of the creek, so as to take a photo from the opposite bank but was unable to as he couldn't see where the ground was as the undergrowth was too thick.

Great work Ladies and Gentleman. Going out on a limb here. Any chance of someone kayaking down with a body at that time from an upper point. Conversely, how hard would it be to go from downstream of where Allison was to paddle up to where she was found? Wouldnt need to be far - but I have not seen the site recently (this year).

 

[bellgirl]

Did you get grass and clay on your shoes?

It's all over my car - got a bit bogged when driving out of Kholo Cr Bridge to head to Scout Camp! My hubby is not very impressed! I feel like my shoes and car could land me in jail!

 

[Mani]

Love you Mani. If you didn't ask me, I wouldn't have been able to do this or tell - it's all because of you, Minnie and Indromum.

Thank you for coming with us Bellgirl. It was nice to meet you and good to put faces to names.

There are some very kind, compassionate people on this forum and I met three of them today.

 

[Rational]

I don't have enough words or emoticons to say how thankful I am that Bellgirl, Mani, Minni and Indromum went out to the bridge today! THANK YOU ALL!!!

Even though I am totally familiar with the area but now living up North has meant I could not go there myself, and Mani's photos, Bellgirl's post, Indromum's constant attention to the flowers, and Mini's presence as another FNQ girl has made my day.

Allison has touched so many of us, and I so wish that justice will be served.

I am also grateful for the fact that her death has brought me in touch with all of you. It must be one of those nights, and I haven't had a drink, and my hormones are in control (haha so OT) but I am so teary, but in a good way. Not very Rational!!

 

[bellgirl]

MANI the clothing seen in pic 4 of 4 does that mean something?

Don't think so - it wouldn't have been left there if it was of any importance. It might have been dumped there since. It didn't stand out to us - there's a bit of rubbish around.

 

[BJsleuth]

Can also detect blood, even when it there has been attempt at cleaning. May have been looking for blood splatter on walls, which can be minute and missed by a 'cleaning' perpetrator.

Yes. I was assuming they would have already done that when ABC was reported missing given that they immediately suspected something when they saw the scratches on GBC's face but they may have missed the yard because they were working in daylight.

 

[marlywings]

BJSLEUTH. I recall some mention of '...enquiries into obtaining fake passports...' around the time of the Bail Hearing. Also that children' passports had been renewed. Both these rumours were posted somewhere on this forum around the time of the Bail Hearing. My honest opinion, not fact.
May be the queen of links, MARLYWINGS, might be able to find link.

I found a post of yours in which you mention passports...although I don't recall "fake passports" being mentioned in media at all. I do remember it being reported he allegedly had "plans" for later in the week

#482 06-23-2012, 08:03 PM
Fuskier
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 664

I recall from MSM reporting that GBC had allegedly made 'plans' for later in the week and was surprised that the Police turned up at his work on Wednesday afternoon. I recall hearing in MSM that the B C parents returned home Wednesday night, ran into their house and left the neighbours to take their 'bags' i.e. luggage into the house. Where were they going? What did the Police know? I recall rumour in MSM about it had been established that enquiries had been made about 'fake' passports and the Supreme Court Judge cited his concern that GBC was a serious flight risk among the reasons why GBC's bail was denied. My opinion only, drawn from MSM reporting and not necessarily facts.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8081867&highlight=passports#post8081867

 

[Rational]

BJSLEUTH. I recall some mention of '...enquiries into obtaining fake passports...' around the time of the Bail Hearing. Also that children' passports had been renewed. Both these rumours were posted somewhere on this forum around the time of the Bail Hearing. My honest opinion, not fact.
May be the queen of links, MARLYWINGS, might be able to find link.

Just thinking this one through. I thought that in the report on the afffidavit or in his lawyers statement GBC said that he wasn't a flight risk as he did not have a valid Australiam passport. I will look for that again.

However, if he was born in England, and lived in Zimbabwe he may have been eligible for either a European or Zimbabwean one. Maybe that is what they were searching for, another passport.

 

[Mani]

It has really grown back up. Is that marijuana?

Indromum thought it might have been castor oil plant I think. Would that be right possumheart?

 

[possumheart]

I had decided she was placed based on the fact that she disappeared on a new moon when high tide is lowest. Point taken about the undergrowth. I know I just can't stand the thought of being washed down.

 

[Rational]

Yes. I was assuming they would have already done that when ABC was reported missing given that they immediately suspected something when they saw the scratches on GBC's face but they may have missed the yard because they were working in daylight.

Also the house was a crime scene from when Allison went missing until about a week later (is that right or was it a crime scene until after she was found?). It was reported that they found some items of interests (MSM) near Allison's body. Maybe they were looking for rope, carpet, tarps or anything that would connect whatever they found near the body or on the body to something in the house?

 

[Mani]

MANI. Thank you for these photos. They are very helpful to us websleuthers. They provide a visual of the areas being talked about. IMO it looks manageable to be able to get under the bridge to me - especially for those with scouting skills. What was it like when actually there? Also it looks like a car would be able to park there next to the bridge. What was it like actually there?

Yes a couple of cars parked on the flattened area today (3) to be exact.

It is larger and flatter than I expected - a bit boggy though.

We managed to get down under the bridge from the northern side, just below the flattened part.

 

[JK673]

Does the scout camp have canoes and would GBC or NBC possibly have access to them?

Can't see them bothering with that.....

 

[marlywings]

Just thinking this one through. I thought that in the report on the afffidavit or in his lawyers statement GBC said that he wasn't a flight risk as he did not have a valid Australiam passport. I will look for that again.

However, if he was born in England, and lived in Zimbabwe he may have been eligible for either a European or Zimbabwean one. Maybe that is what they were searching for, another passport.

His defence stated he had no valid passport but the judge was pretty definite about him being a flight risk...

June 22, 2012

However Justice Boddice dismissed the application, stating that strong ties to the community were not unusual.

He said the prospect of a mandatory life sentence – the penalty in Queensland if found guilty of murder - was “a powerful incentive not to appear” for trial.

And while Mr Baden-Clay had not “sought to flee despite intense media attention” in the lead-up to his arrest, he had now been charged with murder and had been in custody since.

Justice Boddice said Mr Baden-Clay’s ties to the community, his obligation to his daughters and his obligations to his business must be balanced against “the real risk of mandatory life imprisonment” and what that might mean to a person.

“The applicant is facing the real risk of mandatory life imprisonment, flight is a real possibility, a real possibility,” he said.

“Although he may have property and other work relationship ties with Queensland, that is not an unusual factor and would not necessarily prevent flight of someone determined to abscond because of fear of a lengthy prison sentence.”

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...denied-bail-20120622-20s73.html#ixzz1zvJ26sw5

 

[Mani]

I had decided she was placed based on the fact that she disappeared on a new moon when high tide is lowest. Point taken about the undergrowth. I know I just can't stand the thought of being washed down.

Me neither Possumheart. I hate the thought. However, all four of us concluded that we think she has been washed down the creek.

We looked at whether she had been left there, rolled off the bridge or floated down and the consensus was that Allison has floated down.

What led us to that conclusion is that we didn't think that the body could land were it was without visible signs of injury i.e. broken bones - so we don't think she has been dropped from height and we don't believe she could have been dragged down (but will stand corrected if that is the case) due to the undergrowth and the fact that the place where her body was found regularly goes underwater due to the tidal nature of the creek. IMO

 

[Rational]

This was reported in the CM re passports the day after the bail hearing:

Quote:
The police are objecting to Mr Baden-Clay getting bail because they say he could interfere with potential witnesses.

Mr Davis said his client should have bail so he can continue caring for his children.

He said Mr Baden-Clay had no valid passport at the moment.

Mr Davis said there has been no cause of death, no evidence putting him at Kholo Creek, no sightings of the car and no evidence of a time of death.

 

[Dodo]

Thanks Mani and all the other beautiful people that went today. The picture of the cross bought tears to my eyes, for what it stands for and for her daughters' and the Dickie's loss. It also reminded me that it was a little bit of all of us at that sad place. :tyou:

I truly think that this cross symbolizes all that is good about humanity, placed there and maintained by really GOOD people and I am very hopeful that even though it was the scene of despicable evil, the outpouring of love and caring by everyone over the loss of Allison has overwhelmingly trumped the evil act that was perpetrated there.