Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

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Thinking

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Respectfully snipped


On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.


Rumour squasher two.

GPS data yet the defence claim they had no evidence he left the house?
Oh geez I wish we could get some more information and facts.

Hi Curious - I guess the only drawback with the GPS data is that it still doesn't prove that GBC was actually driving the car (although of course this evidence would still be very damning). So for this reason, I believe the defence could say that the prosecution "has no evidence he left the house". Do you know what I mean? Literally, they still don't have concrete evidence that GBC definitely left the house.

Oh if only they could get access to that facetime call to put it all beyond doubt....

Edit: I see Mystique beat me to it - thanks Mystique :)
 

DrWatson

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Thanks for this info Minni - I have often wondered about this again, as do you recall an earlier poster (Pullenvale4069 from memory) mentioned that (and this was only a rumour) the police did have the GPS information from GBC's car(s) - that would definitely tie in with what you have heard too. I'll see if I can find her post about this....

Or (sorry if I've misunderstood) do you mean they had his GPS data from after she went missing, and they saw that he travelled out that way at that time..?

But wasn't it the Captiva that allegedly went out there? I know there was a sighting of what seemed to be a white 4WD, which may implicate the Prado, but the blood was found in the back of the Captiva, not the Prado.

So - which vehicle allegedly went out there? And does that vehicle actually have a GPS unit? Those are facts that we really ought to know before propagating any theories based on the GPS story.

And if two vehicles went there, why? And which ones? Which was the alleged "dark vehicle in front" with its lights off? And who was that?

So many questions, so few facts....
 

Thinking

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But wasn't it the Captiva that allegedly went out there? I know there was a sighting of what seemed to be a white 4WD, which may implicate the Prado, but the blood was found in the back of the Captiva, not the Prado.

So - which vehicle allegedly went out there? And does that vehicle actually have a GPS unit? Those are facts that we really ought to know before propagating any theories based on the GPS story.

And if two vehicles went there, why? And which ones? Which was the alleged "dark vehicle in front" with its lights off? And who was that?

So many questions, so few facts....

I know DrW - so many questions, so few facts. We seem to be talking now as if there was only one car out there - but witness sightings have indicated two cars may have been on the road. The police were very interested in both family cars from the start - and I don't think we can discount the Prado as maybe being involved (albeit not necessarily being the vehicle that transported the body) just because the police have released it. For example, the police also believe the murder occured at the BC residence but the place is (was) being put up for rent....they obviously believe they have taken what they need from there and this could be the same with the Prado.

Re the GPS, many threads ago the GPS in cars issue was discussed in great depth as to whether or not it would have been in either of GBC's cars - I don't think we really got anywhere. Anyway, I just deleted my previous post as it really was just rumour from a previous poster - more questions than answers that's for sure.
 

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does anyone know if there is actual msm reporting of allison being found face down, any links? or is it really just a rumour?
i still feel allison was placed high up under the bridge, and the high water level dislodged her. i think if she had floated downstream she would have been caught up on so many things on the way down, in her state of decomposition, wouldnt parts of her body fall away? sorry to be graphic, but doesnt the body become very liquid? after so many days dead?
if there was cling film or a plastic bag over her head, would that accelerate decomposition of her face. i was thinking if her head was covered it was because she was killed this way and also because her killer didnt want to see her face, but now wonder if it was also to maybe speed up decomposition?
we need a forensic investigator here!
 

minni

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Before this one gets too out of control, what was the source of this information?
Is it just a local rumour or from someone in the know? (MSM, SES, police etc)
Not saying we should ignore it as I too would expect something of value pulled from either of the GPS's in the car. They were both new looking cars and probably had GPS. I know my GPS logs my path, but I think I have to turn it on.

Oh the topic of local rumours, I did hear from a friend (local to the area but no associations to this site) about the chains from Coles. I guess the rumour mill is still very strong in the real world even in these days of internet.

yep, just a local rumour, someone who hears a lot of jungle drums, and is in contact with Allison's family and is a local. It is not important who found her that day either I suppose. Regarding the GPS, they must have investigated this avenue, but we cant know if they had any luck with it.
 

BreakingNews

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I doubt that Minni, with all due respect. The idea that the water gently rose then gently fell is wrong - it ROARED down those creeks in a flood surge. The pressure and flow involved when the creeks do that is enormous. And you can see some of the debris that got washed down the creek even now, including large tree trunks. If she had simply been placed under the bridge, and the flow and the height of the tide reached her, then she would have washed out into the main river. But if she came down in the flow, from somewhere further up the creek, and the water level was well up above the normal high tide mark, she could easily have just snagged up on those bushes that would have been underwater, and then as the tide receded (those creek floods drop very quickly) and as her body weight gradually came into play (she would have been almost weightless while in the water), she could then have simply rolled down from those bushes to where she was found.



I have doubts about this for a couple of reasons: why would the police send a kayaker, who could only search the mouth of the creek? Surely they would send a car or van, with people who could search ALL the surroundings? After all, they could see under the bridge by approaching from the land, but they wouldn't be able to see the land by approaching from the water. Also, I really doubt that they had his GPS data. First, I'm not sure his iPhone may not have recorded that data if he had location services turned off. But mainly, you may recall that his iPhone data only became available the day prior to his (delayed) bail application.

No - I think the kayaker was just a random kayaker who happened to nose up into the creek. Of course, I could be wrong, too - ..... ;)

Doc I disagree. At the time of the search police said they had police canoests out searching. There was a lot of discussion in much earlier threads about someone searching for a cache in the area. I can't find the place now, because I'm not good at that. But from memory it was stated that it was NOT a random who found her. I think we were told them to leave this alone.
 

Thinking

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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7934515#post7934515"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #9 - Page 52 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I'm not really sure how to post links and I hope I got this right - but this page shows the beginning of discussions about the GPS. Minni, it is interesting when you see what Pullenvale4069 mentioned - very similar to what you heard?
 

Cyansea

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I have actually visited both Kenmore shopping centres in the last week and casually looked for chains but couldn't spot them.
I guess subconsciously we are all still looking for evidence whilst we wait. (thus my reason for accidentally ended up out there on my motorbike last week)
Hi wakeskate, I want to thank you for the photos you have taken. Some good topographical maps actually cost money to be able to have a look at or download as I’ve tried, so the photos came in very handy and shows everything clearly thank you. I’ve always wondered what LUG looked like.
Thanks to mani also for taking great photos, really gives a good image of the area and minni for going there as well and helping in relation to the prints in the mud. Doc also for taking the time out of what would be a busy schedule to go to the area and have a look around and give feedback. Every little thing counts and like you say it’s the little things that can tie everything together. Also to makara for her great screenshots and everyone else who has gone right out of their way to help us get a picture of the area, everyone who is looking after the flowers on the bridge, please take care of traffic, maybe are you allowed to put a slow down sign somewhere to slow the traffic down while you guys are doing that, take care. Kudos to you all.
There has been some great sleuthing from all and great work from the locals taking pics, giving explanations of the area and their feeling of the area and ‘likely drop off points’, this has been very helpful, thanks.
I am now of the belief she was washed down and most probably only from the areas near LUG and Kholo Juncture as I think she would have got snagged any further up the creeks.
You guys Rock!
:yourock:
 

possumheart

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Hi wakeskate, I want to thank you for the photos you have taken. Some good topographical maps actually cost money to be able to have a look at or download as I’ve tried, so the photos came in very handy and shows everything clearly thank you. I’ve always wondered what LUG looked like.
Thanks to mani also for taking great photos, really gives a good image of the area and minni for going there as well and helping in relation to the prints in the mud. Doc also for taking the time out of what would be a busy schedule to go to the area and have a look around and give feedback. Every little thing counts and like you say it’s the little things that can tie everything together. Also to makara for her great screenshots and everyone else who has gone right out of their way to help us get a picture of the area, everyone who is looking after the flowers on the bridge, please take care of traffic, maybe are you allowed to put a slow down sign somewhere to slow the traffic down while you guys are doing that, take care. Kudos to you all.
There has been some great sleuthing from all and great work from the locals taking pics, giving explanations of the area and their feeling of the area and ‘likely drop off points’, this has been very helpful, thanks.
I am now of the belief she was washed down and most probably only from the areas near LUG and Kholo Juncture as I think she would have got snagged any further up the creeks.
You guys Rock!
:yourock:

Couldn't agree more. I forgot to mention that the flowers looked wonderful yesterday.
 

minni

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Thanks Wakeskate, that makes sense and I agree, its not important in the scheme of things.

Fuskier, This idea you have has been how I felt mostly since the beginning. I thought she had been left under the bridge up high, and until the torrent came, the high tide mark never reached her. There was a lot of vegetation there prior to her being found which would have hid her in my opinion. The other reason I felt that way was because, if she came down from upstream, why stop under the bridge? however if she came down from the embankmnet, the water would have sort of dislodged and lifted her as it rose, then PULLED her slowly, as the tide dropped, leaving her resting in the mud at low tide. Dpes this make sense? it seems more plausible to me.

BUT, although i still see this motion of water being more plausible than jsut ruching downstream, I feel that Doc's suggestion that she was dropped down the embankment just prior to the entry of LUC into Kholo feels very right too. It would involve the same water motion as you described, being tugged by the extreme high tide of the days prior, as the levels reached her and pulled her down.
I hope that makes sense.

On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.
I watched a show last week where a man who killed his daughter was set up by the police to believe the 'killer' was going to be caught trying to move her body from a shallow grave to a deeper one. He fell for it and went to move her body, they didnt need to follow him..they jast wathced and waited for his gps to tell them where he went, then found the sites and got him. I think i mentioned it last week.
Anyway, I am positive our own QPS would have done this too? I havent heard this before but of course they would have at least tried.

Yes, Minnie, I have been tol also that the canoeist was police/ SES and not a random find. IMO
 

BreakingNews

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Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #9 - Page 52 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I'm not really sure how to post links and I hope I got this right - but this page shows the beginning of discussions about the GPS. Minni, it is interesting when you see what Pullenvale4069 mentioned - very similar to what you heard?

A Real Estate Agent would surely have a car navigation system and not rely on his phone. I bet he just wasn't thinking. And remember that GBC's phone was sent to specialists in Melbourne and that's when they discovered the face time call.:jail:
 

bearbear

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police said they would need at least 5 months for all the financial paperwork to be sorted, hopefully this wont delay the committal hearing in september!

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-baden-clays-finances/story-e6freuy9-12264209

Police have so far taken statements from 330 people and still have another 50 to 100 to go.

"The investigative accountant is still to come," Mr Boyle said.

"The accountant has indicated that it will be mid November."

Magistrate Callaghan said he was shocked it could take so long.

"You're joking, aren't you," he said.

"I can't believe for a minute that it's going to take five months for an accountant to look into the finances of one person."

Mr Boyle said the records were "voluminous".

Magistrate Callaghan ordered that the brief of evidence be handed to the defence by no later than August 20, except for the accountant's statement.

The matter will return to court on September 3 for a committal mention.
 

alioop

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Bearbear, the september date is just a committal mention for the magistrate to check on the parties progress in handing over evidence etc. Technical stuff for the proper progress of the case. Committal hearing itself won't be until next year.
 

alioop

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If the QPS had gps details available from very early days after Allison went missing, then why didn't they find her. If she was on the banks of Kholo or LUC prior to being washed down then surely they would have combed that area and found her.
 

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If the QPS had gps details available from very early days after Allison went missing, then why didn't they find her. If she was on the banks of Kholo or LUC prior to being washed down then surely they would have combed that area and found her.

Alioop it was probably still being analysed.

Would the GPS show stops and starts or just a round trip?
 

minni

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If the QPS had gps details available from very early days after Allison went missing, then why didn't they find her. If she was on the banks of Kholo or LUC prior to being washed down then surely they would have combed that area and found her.

when were the cars impounded?
 

minni

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http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...over-family-cars/story-e6freoof-1226338105411

so they were impounded between 19th April and 25th, thats the best sleuthing I could do!! anyway, that gave them 5 or more days to gather the data from the gps and investigate. I am sure they were searching that area in that time. Given that she could have been hidden well until the big rainfall, I think it is entirely possible
 

minni

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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7934552&postcount=1289"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #9[/ame]

more on the navman from the uncannily accurate Keyboredom
 
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