Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #38

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BreakingNews

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Did anyone see 60 minutes tonight and the story on murderers getting their sentences reduced from murder to provocation? Scarey stuff and so, so wrong.

Amee, I thought that it wasn't long ago that provocation was deemed not reason for murder. Anyway with GBC it won't help him. He can hardly claim he was provoked with all his carrying on.
 

BreakingNews

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That property, and the directions to TMs house that were found in Allisons diary.
He might have needed those directions so that he could go over to her place and feed her pussy while she was away.:floorlaugh:

I remember talk of a sketch of TM's house in Allison's diary. Can't for the life of me understand why. Wasn't it in GBC's handwriting? Ah, and that property also. What was that about?
 

Keentoknow

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I remember talk of a sketch of TM's house in Allison's diary. Can't for the life of me understand why. Wasn't it in GBC's handwriting? Ah, and that property also. What was that about?

That is another mystery. I cannot find the link.....have spent days looking for the OW video clip, re GBC falling on a rock and hit his head.
 

BreakingNews

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That is another mystery. I cannot find the link.....have spent days looking for the OW video clip, re GBC falling on a rock and hit his head.

Yeah KTK, a few people have been looking for that video. I've never seen it myself. But I enjoy watching 'I was a little bit hurt, but I'm ok' video every now and again. It really shows GBC up for the liar that he is. Little boy voice saying he's told the police everything and thank you. This performance will not get him an Oscar.
 

marlywings

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That is another mystery. I cannot find the link.....have spent days looking for the OW video clip, re GBC falling on a rock and hit his head.

I'm not 100% sure but from memory that video was originally included in a Courier Mail report & the video has since been removed. It may turn up again somewhere one day.
 

Keentoknow

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Yeah KTK, a few people have been looking for that video. I've never seen it myself. But I enjoy watching 'I was a little bit hurt, but I'm ok' video every now and again. It really shows GBC up for the liar that he is. Little boy voice saying he's told the police everything and thank you. This performance will not get him an Oscar.

They have a clip of OW pointing to her head....that was part of the video.
The video was an April 26th or so video and I have a feeling that it began with the men in orange searching....
 

LauraMars

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That is another mystery. I cannot find the link.....have spent days looking for the OW video clip, re GBC falling on a rock and hit his head.

I know the one you mean KTK, but not sure if that is still around. Some clips seem to have been taken down.

There's another clip from way back where OW is being interviewed briefly outside on the street, and she says something like 'Allison still hasn't been found yet" and there is something really off about her tone or inflection when she says found. Could never put my finger on it but it always made me feel uneasy. Actually it might even be in the same clip you are looking for. I'll have a bit of a looksee later and see if I have any luck.
 

LauraMars

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I read somewhere just recently that Allison's internal organs were found to be normal except for the brain, which was in an advanced stage of decomposition, which makes me wonder once again about carbon monoxide poisoning. I can't remember whether I read it here on in MSM. I'll go hunting for it later.

I read that too Makara, it's in the full affidavit, but it wasn't in MSM.
 

DrWatson

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Found this:

Carbon monoxide Odorless and colorless. Non-irritating. Found in car exhausts. It is cumulative - repeated small doses can build up over time. It kills by preventing the blood from carrying oxygen. Symptoms: Initially, dizziness and headaches when exerting yourself, then when at rest too. A higher dose affects coordination and makes the heart throb. Then comes collapse and death. Often the victim is unaware and just drifts slowly to sleep. Post-mortem appearance: Pinky skin. Cherry-red blood. Blood is fluid and doesn't want to clot. Lungs congested and the upper air passages contain a frothy fliud. Carbon monoxide remains in the blood for up to six months after death.

and this:

'Homicidal strangulation will almost always fracture the hyiod bone'.
.

Just a couple of points on this. To be picky, it's not actually carbon monoxide in the blood - it's carboxyhaemoglobin. That is the carbon monoxide that is bound to the haemoglobin, and that is why the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood is reduced. Carboxyhaemoglobin can survive in proper blood sample storage tubes for up to a couple of years, but I'm not so sure how long it would last in a body that has been exposed to the elements (as opposed to being in a mortuary refrigerator).

The damage to brain cells etc from hypoxia and other effects of CO poisoning is mainly at the microscopic level - we're not talking about brain damage visible to the naked eye in most cases. Would be very obvious under the microscope, but much more so in chronic toxicity that has been going on for some time (eg the person with the CO-emitting leaky exhaust pipe) as opposed to acute poisoning (eg suicide by the old exhaust-hosepipe-car method).

The main telltale sign of carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning at an autopsy is the bright cherry red colour, particularly of the livor mortis - the staining of the lower parts of the body in the position of death by the blood under the effect of gravity. It is usually dusky, bluish-purple in colour. But in CO toxicity, it is bright cherry red - bit like a porcelain painted doll. Have seen it several times. Of course, we don't know if Allison's body had any signs of livor mortis, given that she'd been in several positions since death, from the back of the vehicle, then wherever she was placed, and finally tumbled and spun around in the flood surge. That can really muck things up in terms of signs like livor mortis.

Re the fractured hyoid bone, much loved by CSI and detective novels: yes, a brute-force strangulation WILL often do that, but not by any means always. If someone knows what they're doing, and compresses the trachea well below the hyoid (eg someone with army training, for example) then that will cause bruising of the trachea but no fracture of the hyoid. A small point, admittedly, as the strangulation will still be obvious, but the hyoid will be intact. And of course, there is carotid compression, which can be applied from in front or behind, and again would be known by people with training (army, police, etc). That wouldn't fracture the hyoid either. If anyone here has ever watched UFC on the television (Ultimate Fighting Championship), you may have seen choke holds applied which render the opponent unconscious - and they don't get fractured hyoids. I'm well aware of several methods of doing that.

However, I'm not sure why this has come up in the discussions here, as we have no evidence that Allison was either strangled or forcibly administered carbon monoxide.... we still have no idea of the cause of death.

And yes, I've asked my contact at the Forensic and Scientific Services, but he won't tell me... of course :)
 

summer_breeze

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Friendly reminder:

We cannot bring into the discussion information that is only available in the full affidavit. The full affidavit has not been made available to the general public at this time, that I am aware of.


Thank you for understanding.
~Summer_Breeze
 

linette

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Just a couple of points on this. To be picky, it's not actually carbon monoxide in the blood - it's carboxyhaemoglobin. That is the carbon monoxide that is bound to the haemoglobin, and that is why the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood is reduced. Carboxyhaemoglobin can survive in proper blood sample storage tubes for up to a couple of years, but I'm not so sure how long it would last in a body that has been exposed to the elements (as opposed to being in a mortuary refrigerator).

The damage to brain cells etc from hypoxia and other effects of CO poisoning is mainly at the microscopic level - we're not talking about brain damage visible to the naked eye in most cases. Would be very obvious under the microscope, but much more so in chronic toxicity that has been going on for some time (eg the person with the CO-emitting leaky exhaust pipe) as opposed to acute poisoning (eg suicide by the old exhaust-hosepipe-car method).

The main telltale sign of carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning at an autopsy is the bright cherry red colour, particularly of the livor mortis - the staining of the lower parts of the body in the position of death by the blood under the effect of gravity. It is usually dusky, bluish-purple in colour. But in CO toxicity, it is bright cherry red - bit like a porcelain painted doll. Have seen it several times. Of course, we don't know if Allison's body had any signs of livor mortis, given that she'd been in several positions since death, from the back of the vehicle, then wherever she was placed, and finally tumbled and spun around in the flood surge. That can really muck things up in terms of signs like livor mortis.

Re the fractured hyoid bone, much loved by CSI and detective novels: yes, a brute-force strangulation WILL often do that, but not by any means always. If someone knows what they're doing, and compresses the trachea well below the hyoid (eg someone with army training, for example) then that will cause bruising of the trachea but no fracture of the hyoid. A small point, admittedly, as the strangulation will still be obvious, but the hyoid will be intact. And of course, there is carotid compression, which can be applied from in front or behind, and again would be known by people with training (army, police, etc). That wouldn't fracture the hyoid either. If anyone here has ever watched UFC on the television (Ultimate Fighting Championship), you may have seen choke holds applied which render the opponent unconscious - and they don't get fractured hyoids. I'm well aware of several methods of doing that.

However, I'm not sure why this has come up in the discussions here, as we have no evidence that Allison was either strangled or forcibly administered carbon monoxide.... we still have no idea of the cause of death.

And yes, I've asked my contact at the Forensic and Scientific Services, but he won't tell me... of course :)

BBM I think that the reason this is has come up is because we are discussing what might have happened. That is all we can do because none of us actually know. Just as much reason to bring this up as anything else.
 

BreakingNews

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Just a couple of points on this. To be picky, it's not actually carbon monoxide in the blood - it's carboxyhaemoglobin. That is the carbon monoxide that is bound to the haemoglobin, and that is why the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood is reduced. Carboxyhaemoglobin can survive in proper blood sample storage tubes for up to a couple of years, but I'm not so sure how long it would last in a body that has been exposed to the elements (as opposed to being in a mortuary refrigerator).

The damage to brain cells etc from hypoxia and other effects of CO poisoning is mainly at the microscopic level - we're not talking about brain damage visible to the naked eye in most cases. Would be very obvious under the microscope, but much more so in chronic toxicity that has been going on for some time (eg the person with the CO-emitting leaky exhaust pipe) as opposed to acute poisoning (eg suicide by the old exhaust-hosepipe-car method).

The main telltale sign of carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning at an autopsy is the bright cherry red colour, particularly of the livor mortis - the staining of the lower parts of the body in the position of death by the blood under the effect of gravity. It is usually dusky, bluish-purple in colour. But in CO toxicity, it is bright cherry red - bit like a porcelain painted doll. Have seen it several times. Of course, we don't know if Allison's body had any signs of livor mortis, given that she'd been in several positions since death, from the back of the vehicle, then wherever she was placed, and finally tumbled and spun around in the flood surge. That can really muck things up in terms of signs like livor mortis.

Re the fractured hyoid bone, much loved by CSI and detective novels: yes, a brute-force strangulation WILL often do that, but not by any means always. If someone knows what they're doing, and compresses the trachea well below the hyoid (eg someone with army training, for example) then that will cause bruising of the trachea but no fracture of the hyoid. A small point, admittedly, as the strangulation will still be obvious, but the hyoid will be intact. And of course, there is carotid compression, which can be applied from in front or behind, and again would be known by people with training (army, police, etc). That wouldn't fracture the hyoid either. If anyone here has ever watched UFC on the television (Ultimate Fighting Championship), you may have seen choke holds applied which render the opponent unconscious - and they don't get fractured hyoids. I'm well aware of several methods of doing that.

However, I'm not sure why this has come up in the discussions here, as we have no evidence that Allison was either strangled or forcibly administered carbon monoxide.... we still have no idea of the cause of death.

And yes, I've asked my contact at the Forensic and Scientific Services, but he won't tell me... of course :)

Doc you are way too technical for me. I might have to get myself verified as an idiot, I think.
 

KG1

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Posting some links including the OW & GBC 'interview', although parts of what OW says have been clipped. Just to refresh our memories.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-step-up-search-for-moth
er-of-three-allison-baden-clay-missing-in-brookfield/story-e6freoof-12263356
81703

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c76CI6vtixI"]The Gerard Baden-Clay Interview, (His wife Allison Beden-Clay still missing) UPDATE BODY FOUND - YouTube[/ame]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/allison-baden-clays-sister-in-
law-says-husband-gerard-baden-clay-left-completely-devastated-by-wifes-myste
ry-disappearance/story-e6freoof-1226338290711
 

summer_breeze

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I believe it OK to speculate on cause/manner of death. As long as it is not wild speculation. And as long as we say that we are speculating or providing our own theories on what may have happened!

It seems reasonable to be speculating in those areas that lend themselves to what we know (have been told, led to believe) so far, no external injuries except the chipped tooth.

Example: Strangulation seems feasible and a reasonable speculation. (No noticable external injuries due to decomposition?) Suffocation seems feasible and a reasonable speculation.

And we can use what we do know to support or counter the theories!

Mention of the alleged exact, specific "injuries" to Allison (internal), which are not public information, is to be treated as rumor and not allowed at this time.

Hope this helps!
 

Keentoknow

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Posting some links including the OW & GBC 'interview', although parts of what OW says have been clipped. Just to refresh our memories.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-step-up-search-for-moth
er-of-three-allison-baden-clay-missing-in-brookfield/story-e6freoof-12263356
81703

The Gerard Baden-Clay Interview, (His wife Allison Beden-Clay still missing) UPDATE BODY FOUND - YouTube

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/allison-baden-clays-sister-in-
law-says-husband-gerard-baden-clay-left-completely-devastated-by-wifes-myste
ry-disappearance/story-e6freoof-1226338290711

Thank you KG1....sure looks like clip is not around anymore.
 

Liadan

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I believe it OK to speculate on cause/manner of death. As long as it is not wild speculation. And as long as we say that we are speculating or providing our own theories on what may have happened!

It seems reasonable to be speculating in those areas that lend themselves to what we know (have been told, led to believe) so far, no external injuries except the chipped tooth.

Example: Strangulation seems feasible and a reasonable speculation. (No noticable external injuries due to decomposition?) Suffocation seems feasible and a reasonable speculation.

And we can use what we do know to support or counter the theories!

Mention of the alleged exact, specific "injuries" to Allison (internal), which are not public information, is to be treated as rumor and not allowed at this time.

Hope this helps!


Sounds like a plan summer breeze - it would be awfully boring not to be able to speculate from what we know and then gain others ideas on those speculations.
 

Curiousasacat

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I will finally be getting my laptop back after repairs,means I have to give my daughter back hers,which means I have to remove all the bookmarks I have added.So rather than delete them I'll post them. There is nothing new just things I saved.

A current affair video timeline-http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/8470880/murder-twist

News article from 28/4 (Allison still missing)
(Below article are many other news links)
http://article.wn.com/view/2012/04/28/Daughters_pray_for_missing_mum_Allison_BadenClay/

News picture gallery from courier mail.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=15
(not sure who the lady is in pic 15?)

News clip - Body found. Ranae Henry interview.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyxdCkk2mqY&feature=related"]Body found - YouTube[/ame]

Couriermail article re mobile phone.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...urbs-of-brisbane/story-e6freoof-1226338302828

I''ll do another one with a couple of photos I have.
 

Curiousasacat

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Pictures you've seen but can see again : )
 

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