Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[Strangeworld]

Page 361 of Kellie Thomson's statement (plain clothes police officer who attended BC house the day Allison was reported missing):

-when she located Allison's phone nearby using Find My Friends app on GBC's phone, GBC's response was 'oh, that's good'. What???? The police have just told you that they may know where Allison's phone is, and his response was that calm - I would have been running in circles trying to find the phone, Allison, anything. Normally I think this sort of information/discovery should have produced a very excitable, anxious, elevated response in a spouse - not GBC, though. Oh dear. It just gets worse and worse.

 

[Trooper]

in the first bail application,..... it says.. lawfully intercepted telephone calls on the defendants phone supports that he has used his parents to assist him in covertly contacting Toni McHugh on his behalf.....

COVERTLY contacting Toni?? Nige and Elaine....

now... at this point in the proceedings.. why would Nige and Elaine not suspect or expect their phones and Gerards phones to not be tapped?? what would make someone not even consider that possibility? ? we are looking at a family that simply doesnt understand or comprehend the world on any terms at all.

 

[Happygolucky]

Very good point CC. And yes, my iPhone does the same thing - the Telstra bill only logs the initial cell of contact.

But the data in the phone records from the affidavits, provided by Telstra, as I read them, suggest that the phone simply remained connected to the FTP tower the whole time - which is the way the judge interpreted them also at the second bail hearing.

But of course, your explanation would make everything much simpler - and be much more consistent with Allison's phone being somewhere in that gully behind the BC house, despite the intensive search having failed to find it.

And I'm all for keeping things simple wherever possible. I must have another close look at those phone records, especially now it has all been posted on WS by Marly.

Yes this explanation potentially makes much more sense. The whole phone analysis and records are doing my head in. I have concerns that the mobile
phone evidence will not be treated as very reliable after the first bail hearing and the "evidence" of the facetime calls at the 11th hour before the application. If the find my phone app was giving signal within 150 meters which does not seem to be correct considering extensive search with all those zillions of metal detectors, is the jury then expect to believe GBC did not actually use this App to try and find Alison. It will be hard to be selective about which aspects of the forensics regarding the mobile phone we are to believe and which we are not.

I was just having a conversation with my son who is studying micro-electonics at the moment about GBCs phone off and on the charger. If the phone was in the charger but not connecting properly a small vibration may have re-established the connection. Does anyone know when the i phone gives a signal for low battery. My Samsung makes a noise at around the 18% mark. I could not tell you exactly. But I remember checking my phone shortly after it gave the low battery noise at it was around 18%. My phone is also set such that it gives a small vibration if there is a text or incoming facebook message. These are all possible explanations for a charger that that was in the slot but not properly connected.

 

[Couldbe]

From EBC's phone records, it seems that she phoned OW when she arrived at the Airport at Gold Coast ... on morning of 16 Apr.

On the morning of 20 Apr at 06.32 am (cost $8.39) on Nigel & Elaine's internet Telstra Bill... wonder what this was.

Allison's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am April 20.

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

Who also has an alias email account just cause??

 

[Flinders]

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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8138652&postcount=61"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33[/ame]
#61
07-12-2012, 01:47 PM


McCoy
Hi everyone,

This is my first post but I have been following all the discussion for quite a while and feel I know you well. I am a local (Brookfield) and feel very strongly about the case.

There seems to be a conflict between intent and action in Gerard wanting Allison to be found for insurance purposes, but supposedly hiding her in bushland where she wouldn’t be found (but luckily was due to the heavy rain).

My suggestion based on the personalities
1. Gerard intentionally does the deed as semi-planned, then realises it is harder to move Allison/work out what to do than he thought, rings NBC "Dad, dad, help we had an argument and I accidentally killed her!"
3. NBC rushes to help, takes over, and suggests the bushland where he thinks she won't be found
4. GBC goes along with this as he doesn’t want to tell NBC it was intentional even though he now realises she may not be found in a hurry and he may not cash in on insurance in a hurry.
2. When Allison is found due to rain he is semi-relieved as now he can ring insurance company and claim without telling his Father it was intentional.

Apparently psychopaths (it has been suggested on this forum that certain people resemble this mental state) are great at a big grandiose plan but forget about the small details or follow on plans (sounds like my boss actually).

It’s great to feel I am offiicial, I was looking around at the Cricket Day wondering which of you were from WS.

 

[Aberline_1979]

I'm a semi-regular viewer (and occasional poster) on these forums concerning this case since it all began. I imagine this description applies to a lot of you as well.

Therefore, I'll just summarise the main NEW details that I have found after reading/skimming these Bail documents:

- the "vacuum cleaner rumor" was indeed true. Shortly after the police arrived for the first time on April 20, NBC tried to load an old vacuum cleaner (which he brought out from underneath GBC's house) into his car, and GBC claimed that he needed this because him and his Dad were going to be doing some kind of cleaning work on various houses they were trying to sell during the day.

- GBC was probably s%^tting bricks when the Friend Finder App on his iPhone was used by a policewoman to detect (at least initially) that ABC's iPhone was lying only 150 metres away in the backyard of 61 Boscombe Road, a property behind GBC and ABC's house at 593 Brookfield Road. Who in the world says "Oh that's good" when their "missing" wife may have been found?!

- GBC appeared nervous and rushed when he visited the local (female) Doctor for the first time on Saturday April 21. He mentioned to her several times that "he was in a hurry" when he "cut himself shaving". When she asked why he didn't stop after he cut himself for the first time, he simply repeated his claim that he didn't notice the cut/s because he was "in a hurry".

- The same Doctor's visit ended with GBC asking her where she lived (Springfield Lakes). She said that she would like to move closer to work (Kenmore area). He responded by saying "maybe I can help" and handed her his business card. He no longer appeared to be anixous to her when talking about business.

- GBC may have FINALLY realised (following TM's call on the 19th) the kind of blow-up that could occur on Friday, with both Allison and Toni attending the SAME conference together. Personally, after reading TM's statement, I also finally understood the importance of that detail. GBC may now have realised that he could lose BOTH his wife and mistress in the days that followed. Unfortunately, this to me now appears to be the key reason why he acted when he did.

- What was with the 10 second long phone call to GBC's mobile from his office at 4:17am on April 19? Any ideas people?

- Finally, what was with the whole "s**t, shower and shave" thing (GBC describing his morning routine)? Is this GBC's attempt to mingle successfully with the "common police officer" (i.e. lower class of person that Mr Hyphenated surname himself)?


Well...I have to finish up now, but I'm pretty sure there are a couple more points I wanted to include but have temporarily forgotten. Hopefully I'll be able to post them later. But at least these are the main ones.

 

[Strangeworld]

I just had a thought - I don't really understand the whole mobile/mobile towers/app finder thing, but MAYBE the Find My Friends detection of Allison's phone was actually an error, and GBC knew this. That may be why he didn't react - he knew they wouldn't find the phone or Allison there because neither of them were there. And/or maybe his mind was racing thinking 'it couldn't be there' which distracted him from pretending to react in a 'normal' way.

Just a thought, IMO.

 

[Hillsdon]

I'm a semi-regular viewer (and occasional poster) on these forums concerning this case since it all began. I imagine this description applies to a lot of you as well.

Therefore, I'll just summarise the main NEW details that I have found after reading/skimming these Bail documents:

- the "vacuum cleaner rumor" was indeed true. Shortly after the police arrived for the first time on April 20, NBC tried to load an old vacuum cleaner (which he brought out from underneath GBC's house) into his car, and GBC claimed that he needed this because him and his Dad were going to be doing some kind of cleaning work on various houses they were trying to sell during the day.

- GBC was probably s%^tting bricks when the Friend Finder App on his iPhone was used by a policewoman to detect (at least initially) that ABC's iPhone was lying only 150 metres away in the backyard of 61 Boscombe Road, a property behind GBC and ABC's house at 593 Brookfield Road. Who in the world says "Oh that's good" when their "missing" wife may have been found?!

- GBC appeared nervous and rushed when he visited the local (female) Doctor for the first time on Saturday April 21. He mentioned to her several times that "he was in a hurry" when he "cut himself shaving". When she asked why he didn't stop after he cut himself for the first time, he simply repeated his claim that he didn't notice the cut/s because he was "in a hurry".

- The same Doctor's visit ended with GBC asking her where she lived (Springfield Lakes). She said that she would like to move closer to work (Kenmore area). He responded by saying "maybe I can help" and handed her his business card. He no longer appeared to be anixous to her when talking about business.

- GBC may have FINALLY realised (following TM's call on the 19th) the kind of blow-up that could occur on Friday, with both Allison and Toni attending the SAME conference together. Personally, after reading TM's statement, I also finally understood the importance of that detail. GBC may now have realised that he could lose BOTH his wife and mistress in the days that followed. Unfortunately, this to me now appears to be the key reason why he acted when he did.

- What was with the 10 second long phone call to GBC's mobile from his office at 4:17am on April 19? Any ideas people?

- Finally, what was with the whole "s**t, shower and shave" thing (GBC describing his morning routine)? Is this GBC's attempt to mingle successfully with the "common police officer" (i.e. lower class of person that Mr Hyphenated surname himself)?


Well...I have to finish up now, but I'm pretty sure there are a couple more points I wanted to include but have temporarily forgotten. Hopefully I'll be able to post them later. But at least these are the main ones.

Thanks A for a great post. The rushed removal of the vacuum is so interesting. I wonder how much evidence they found in the bag?

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Have read every post on every thread the sadness is deep in my soul.

GBC's character as has been built by all websleuthers appears to be one that needs adulation and approval from others, very concerned with appearance (both physical and behavioural), selfish, cowardly and superficial. Given this conclusion I am of the mind that he killed Allison by way of accident.

A deliberate act of murder would carry too high a risk to his lifestyle, many divorces occur without the need for killing the other half! An accident however would allow two options - confess and definitely serve time, or cover it up and perhaps get away with it. What would he choose? This is why we are seeing fumbling and amateur attempts of alibis and cover ups. He was definitely thinking on the run. We have all shaken our heads at his apparent stupidity but I think he has been ad libbing the entire time for self preservation.

While none of us directly influence the course of justice, I know that the web of support for Allison is appreciated by the Dickie family. Thank you to all of you who are on here offering genuine theories and support. Keep up the love and respect.

 

[Couldbe]

From EBC's phone records, it seems that she phoned OW when she arrived at the Airport at Gold Coast ... on morning of 16 Apr.

On the morning of 20 Apr at 06.32 am (cost $8.39) on Nigel & Elaine's internet Telstra Bill... wonder what this was.

Allison's phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am April 20.

Couldn't have been GBC, as at 06.32 am, he was connected to Allison's phone

 

[Ippygal]

Wow so much to catch up on today! I've been reading madly since I got home from work! So much new information !!! Thanks so much for sharing all the docs! I hadn't seen them all! And all I have to say is I now have NO doubt....

 

[Strangeworld]

Have read every post on every thread the sadness is deep in my soul.

GBC's character as has been built by all websleuthers appears to be one that needs adulation and approval from others, very concerned with appearance (both physical and behavioural), selfish, cowardly and superficial. Given this conclusion I am of the mind that he killed Allison by way of accident.

A deliberate act of murder would carry too high a risk to his lifestyle, many divorces occur without the need for killing the other half! An accident however would allow two options - confess and definitely serve time, or cover it up and perhaps get away with it. What would he choose? This is why we are seeing fumbling and amateur attempts of alibis and cover ups. He was definitely thinking on the run. We have all shaken our heads at his apparent stupidity but I think he has been ad libbing the entire time for self preservation.

While none of us directly influence the course of justice, I know that the web of support for Allison is appreciated by the Dickie family. Thank you to all of you who are on here offering genuine theories and support. Keep up the love and respect.

So you are thinking that it was a convenient accident that occurred at just the right time? That there was no premeditation or intentional killing of Allison, even though it would mean a way to escape his financial burdens, and maybe commence his life with TM (though I'm starting to think that he either wasn't going to end up shacked up with her, or if he did, it wouldn't be long before he would crave other women - I think she took the relationship waaaaaay more seriously than he did).

I would have to strongly disagree. I am, at this stage, torn between 2 scenarios (all IMO of course!).

1. Planned to take Allison's life, but not on the night/morning it occurred - lost control of the situation and 'clean up', leading to the collection of evidence pointing at him as the suspect

2. Planned to take Allison's life, and did so on the night/morning he intended - but something either went wrong, or he didn't plan well enough to avoid suspicion

Something really has me stumped though - how he thought he could get away with it, particularly in relation to claiming Allison's life insurance? Was he overconfident - assuming someone with his name, stature, etc would never ever be suspected of such a lower class act. Did he just overlook the specific details, as someone else suggested? Or did he think he would be a suspect, but he could explain away any evidence, leading to no conviction, and entitlement to the insurance money.

 

[KG1]

Did any one else notice the 4.17am phone call from the office phone ???

Yes, who was it? Call lasted 10 secs - enough time to say 'Come and pick me up'. We know that NBC had access to the office. Or it may have GBC testing his mobile. Very intrigueing.

Forget above, I mixed the dates up - that call is shown as morning of 19 April, before Allison went missing.

 

[ActusReus]

My brain is now completely frazzled after checking and cross checking all those phone records. A couple of possible irregularities have cropped up and I wonder if anyone else has noticed them too.

1. On the 18th April GBC uses the "Good Wife" alibi to explain the incriminating google searched on his phone. He claims this was done at 10:08pm.

2. On the 18th, GBC's phone records show that he phoned NBC at 8:48pm and spoke for 4min 32 sec, and a call to Canada at 9:53pm followed by two txt mesages to Canada at 9:58pm

3. Also on the 18th Nigelaines home internet was accessed at 10:39pm

While none of this conclusively blows his alibi, it leaves 31 minutes for Nigelaine to ask the "taking the fifth question", GBC to access it on his phone, explain the answer, say goodbye and wave them off, for Nigelaine to then drive home, get inside and log onto the internet.

Can any locals tell me how long it takes to drive from GBC's to NBC's house?

 

[Strangeworld]

My brain is now completely frazzled after checking and cross checking all those phone records. A couple of possible irregularities have cropped up and I wonder if anyone else has noticed them too.

1. On the 18th April GBC uses the "Good Wife" alibi to explain the incriminating google searched on his phone. He claims this was done at 10:08pm.

2. On the 18th, GBC's phone records show that he phoned NBC at 8:48pm and spoke for 4min 32 sec, and a call to Canada at 9:53pm followed by two txt mesages to Canada at 9:58pm

3. Also on the 18th Nigelaines home internet was accessed at 10:39pm

While none of this conclusively blows his alibi, it leaves 31 minutes for Nigelaine to ask the "taking the fifth question", GBC to access it on his phone, explain the answer, say goodbye and wave them off, for Nigelaine to then drive home, get inside and log onto the internet.

Can any locals tell me how long it takes to drive from GBC's to NBC's house?

Great points. And assuming The Good Wife was scheduled for 9.30 to 10.30pm, most primetime shows run over, so it may not have finished until later than 10.30. Unless they didn't stay for the end? I think 31 minutes is plenty of time for his parents to get home, but not if they watched the whole show.

Edit: Actually just had a thought - maybe OW was using the internet?

 

[Strangeworld]

From Kellie Thomson, Police Officer statement - p359:

She said she observed a hand written note amongst a purse and scattered Suncorp credit cards and papers on the table when GBC was been interviewed the morning of Allison's reported disappearance. GBC advised it was written by his daughter that morning. The note was seized by police.

I wonder what was on this note - was it significant because GBC said it was written that morning, or did it contain something that was suspicious or strange?

The note would have been taken by police after the children had left for school, so the conversation between GBC and the girls that 'mummy fell down a hole' would have already happened. Was the note about this?

 

[linette]

From Kellie Thomson, Police Officer statement - p359:

She said she observed a hand written note amongst a purse and scattered Suncorp credit cards and papers on the table when GBC was been interviewed the morning of Allison's reported disappearance. GBC advised it was written by his daughter that morning. The note was seized by police.

I wonder what was on this note - was it significant because GBC said it was written that morning, or did it contain something that was suspicious or strange?

The note would have been taken by police after the children had left for school, so the conversation between GBC and the girls that 'mummy fell down a hole' would have already happened. Was the note about this?

Hmmm, I wonder. Hope it wasn't something GBC got one of them to do therefor making his story better.

 

[BJsleuth]

I think it was premeditated to a degree. Many murderers only plan as far as the actual murder and not much thought goes into what to do afterwards and that is where they make mistakes. If he is a psychopath, they do believe they are smarter than everyone else and that can be their undoing. I think he had given it SOME thought and probably fantasized about his life with his mistress and the insurance money. MOO

 

[DrWatson]

From the evidence regards Zoloft levels, I think an overdose of Zoloft may be dead in the water however Peter Davis was keen on the sessions I saw on Monday to establish how Coroner came to conclusions regards “safe” Zoloft levels. I am sure some more ferreting in the medical literature will occur to try and come up with that potential.

I can tell you now that won't work. That paper that I managed to dig out, and referenced a few weeks ago in an earlier thread, was only published in November of last year - bang up to date. And it in turn references other, previous papers. And there is no way that the Zoloft levels would have been either toxic, or able to be correlated with peripheral blood levels given that the levels were measured in blood from the liver. There were no other levels measured. And the levels found were totally consistent with normal therapeutic levels.