Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #48

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Was Allison's murder premeditated or was it a heated fight that went horribly wrong?

If the latter occurred, is it then he started thinking of the benefits on Allison's death?

Either way, he did not call an ambulance to help Allison but decided to dispose of her body.
Was there another involved loading in or out.
 
This is JMO, but the defence of GBC will be:

GBC was sound asleep from 10 pm until 6.15 am (as always claimed);

There will be all the ‘lame excuses’/lies for the visual evidence e.g. scratches, etc;

It will be implied that Allison’s death and dumping of her body at Kholo Creek must have been performed by ‘someone else’;
Any evidence which involves others and put forward by the Prosecution …… will be focused on by the Defence, but they will try to exclude GBC from that evidence;

Those others will most likely be:- Toni McHugh, BC Senior and Olivia. There may also be another ‘ring-in’ person;

Lack of credibility and Confusion in evidence (circumstantial and other) will be the order of the day.

My belief is that the Detectives are in possession of pertinent evidence which involves GBC in Allison’s murder and dumping of her body, and the involvement of other Players. Of course, the Jury will have to believe in the evidence of the Prosecution ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’ and therefore in GBC’s guilt.
……….. stating the obvious of course, but the Defence are only interested in getting their client off …… and not on actually proving the involvement of others.
 
Olivia has 27 days now to produce the 'real story'.. I recall she asserted she had this all in hand... . obviously, it hasn't surfaced as yet, because Gerard hasn't had another bail hearing due to 'new evidence'... He is still sunning himself at Arthur Gorrie.

As time has passed along, my interest still remains most fixed on the forensic accountant.. we only got a bit of a teaser at the committal, just enough to keep Gerard safely incarcerated, but even then the little she produced was mesmerising.. no doubt there was more then, and naturally, much more now to tell.

the money, the money , the money... something happened that day, that bought the money, the money, the money , Toni, Allison, and Gerard into a vicious and irretrievable knot of callous and cold, cruel murder.. some catalyst that tied it all together, when murder was the only and imperative solution to a long and weary problem.. a collection of factors spun and woven into an insurmountable event, that only death could ease, or solve. What was it?? I long to know.

The roundabout.. . two cars or one?? two drivers ?? one driver with one car, then the other?? Certainly, smart though he says he is, Gerard cant drive two cars at the same time.. ...
 
Couldbe said:
This is JMO, but the defence of GBC will be:

GBC was sound asleep from 10 pm until 6.15 am (as always claimed);

There will be all the ‘lame excuses’/lies for the visual evidence e.g. scratches, etc;

It will be implied that Allison’s death and dumping of her body at Kholo Creek must have been performed by ‘someone else’;
Any evidence which involves others and put forward by the Prosecution …… will be focused on by the Defence, but they will try to exclude GBC from that evidence;

Those others will most likely be:- Toni McHugh, BC Senior and Olivia. There may also be another ‘ring-in’ person;

Lack of credibility and Confusion in evidence (circumstantial and other) will be the order of the day.

My belief is that the Detectives are in possession of pertinent evidence which involves GBC in Allison’s murder and dumping of her body, and the involvement of other Players. Of course, the Jury will have to believe in the evidence of the Prosecution ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’ and therefore in GBC’s guilt.
……….. stating the obvious of course, but the Defence are only interested in getting their client off …… and not on actually proving the involvement of others.
Click to expand...

Yes I absolutely agree with the bolded!! I've thought that ever since GBC's arrest as police know the requirements to go for an arrest & also what's required to get the case through the courts.

With all the committal hearings in murder cases we really only get to hear a fraction of the full load of evidence.

Just a couple of examples....Gittany case, there was so much more evidence presented at the trial than what we'd previously heard.

Cowan's trial was a real eye opener....who would have thought police would go to the incredible extremes as they did in that case??

So hold onto your seats folks as I think we'll be in for some whizz bang firecracken' OMG sparklers!! :)
 
I keep thinking of those people who keep saying this case is like the Azaria Chamberlain story. And I wonder how on earth they can say that?
Then I start wondering if those same people must be trying to get some sort of message across.
Because the two cases couldn't be more different. Do these people have some sort of personal barrow to push? And why?

Here are a few things I have noted:

AC: There appeared to be a media frenzy from go to woe. The main thrust was SELL a story. Any story.
ABC: There appears a blanket silence by the media. The main thrust appears to be "Get the facts right." And "do not jeopardize a fair trial."

AC: The Chamberlains never told porkies. They told a single simple story that was too terrible for many people to comprehend let alone contemplate.
GBC: GBC's story has changed continually from the start.

AC: The Chamberlains co-operated with the police and the powers that be all along. (Probably never dreaming of the outcome.)
GBC The BC family refused to co-operate with the police and truth seekers.

AC: There was NO avenue by which the general public may have had voice, Neither were they asked. No room for educated discussion or educated facts. Example: Has a dingo ever stolen a human baby before? Astoundingly, this was not the first human baby to have been taken by a dingo in Australia. Might have been the first white baby. But no-one wanted to know or hear that.
GBC: There IS a brand new avenue by which the public may have a voice. And express educated comments. It is called the Internet.

AC: There was no big Insurance pay-out pending.
GBC: There is a big Insurance pay-out pending.

AC: There was no suggestion of affairs adultery or of screwing one's colleagues. (Financially)
GBC: The entire matter appears laced with affairs, adultery and apparently dishonest "business dealings." Seems like "Getting Your money in my pocket" is the manner of business as usual for this "business man."

AC: IMO, the Chamberlains were not treated fairly, openly, compassionately, honestly or in an educated manner.
GBC: IMO GBC has been treated fairly, openly, honestly and professionally. (Bit hard to add compassionately when he and his family appear to have openly flaunted everything that resembles truth honesty and justice including rules.)

AC: The Chamberlains did not go out of their way to court the media.
GBC: One member of the BC family instigated her own press conference uninvited. This has the appearance of courting the media. IMO.

These are just some of my thoughts in regards to the huge differences between the two cases. I am sure there are more.
 
they'll get you said:
Was Allison's murder premeditated or was it a heated fight that went horribly wrong?

If the latter occurred, is it then he started thinking of the benefits on Allison's death?

Either way, he did not call an ambulance to help Allison but decided to dispose of her body.
Was there another involved loading in or out.
Click to expand...

TGY, guess GBC could say it was a heated fight gone horrible wrong, then he panic-ed and disposed of her body. So not murder, but manslaughter and charges relating to disposing of Allison. My money is on this scenario, but let's hope the jury won't buy it. :jail::jail::jail:
 
BreakingNews said:
TGY, guess GBC could say it was a heated fight gone horrible wrong, then he panic-ed and disposed of her body. So not murder, but manslaughter and charges relating to disposing of Allison. My money is on this scenario, but let's hope the jury won't buy it. :jail::jail::jail:
Click to expand...
BreakingNews, this sounds like a perfectly plausible explanation by GBC for his actions ....... my feeling is that the Jury wouldn't be sympathetic in his actions of sitting there for another 10 days while so many volunteers, along with the Police, risked their lives searching down mineshafts as well the $$$$cost of conducting an all-out hunt for Allison (alive or dead). JMO
 
CHILLINGLY FAMILIAR? :(

Lin family neighbours heard shouting, Robert Xie murder trial hears

May 14, 2014 3:36PM

NEIGHBOURS say they heard unusual shouting the night before the battered bodies of the Lin family were discovered in their Sydney home.

As the Supreme Court trial continued today, couple Pamela Burgess and Nigel Kelty, who lived near the Lins, said they remembered hearing shouting about 10.30pm on July 17, 2009

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226917685761
 
Trooper said:
Olivia has 27 days now to produce the 'real story'.. I recall she asserted she had this all in hand... . obviously, it hasn't surfaced as yet, because Gerard hasn't had another bail hearing due to 'new evidence'... He is still sunning himself at Arthur Gorrie.

As time has passed along, my interest still remains most fixed on the forensic accountant.. we only got a bit of a teaser at the committal, just enough to keep Gerard safely incarcerated, but even then the little she produced was mesmerising.. no doubt there was more then, and naturally, much more now to tell.

the money, the money , the money... something happened that day, that bought the money, the money, the money , Toni, Allison, and Gerard into a vicious and irretrievable knot of callous and cold, cruel murder.. some catalyst that tied it all together, when murder was the only and imperative solution to a long and weary problem.. a collection of factors spun and woven into an insurmountable event, that only death could ease, or solve. What was it?? I long to know.

The roundabout.. . two cars or one?? two drivers ?? one driver with one car, then the other?? Certainly, smart though he says he is, Gerard cant drive two cars at the same time.. ...
Click to expand...

I think you are on the money (ha!) with this. Personally I think he daydreamed for a long time about what Allison dying would mean for him, a big pile of cash to get him out of trouble and freedom to be with Toni. As his desperation grew he started toying with the idea more and more. Made a few phone calls. Most people at this point of desperation would have just called it quits on everything, the marriage, the debt ... there was really nothing stopping him throwing the towel in on it all and being Toni's kept man. But he's a greedy vain man.

I think while her death was something he had thought a lot about, her murder was not something he had planned much. I do buy that he potentially looked up the 5th amendment stuff while watching a show and it reloaded that morning, because this is the calibre of the planning and research he did, similar in style and substance to his car "accident".

So ultimately I do think there is a strong chance there was a trigger for it to happen that night, combined with the circumstances being right with the girls out the house. More likely to be money than Toni. I dunno, maybe we will find he orchestrated the girls not being there and that will throw my estimation of this whole thing off.
 
I would like to address another matter. `.
This is regarding the "Golden child", or the child who can do no wrong in his parent's eyes. The child who is spoiled rotten. This child grows up thinking he can do no wrong. That the law is to bent to his whims and fancies. This child learns how to be manipulative. And how to throw tantrums. And how to get his own way. This child grows up greedy with an insatiable appetite. A grown up unchecked "Golden Child" can be a right monster.
 
ozazure said:
I think you are on the money (ha!) with this. Personally I think he daydreamed for a long time about what Allison dying would mean for him, a big pile of cash to get him out of trouble and freedom to be with Toni. As his desperation grew he started toying with the idea more and more. Made a few phone calls. Most people at this point of desperation would have just called it quits on everything, the marriage, the debt ... there was really nothing stopping him throwing the towel in on it all and being Toni's kept man. But he's a greedy vain man.

I think while her death was something he had thought a lot about, her murder was not something he had planned much. I do buy that he potentially looked up the 5th amendment stuff while watching a show and it reloaded that morning, because this is the calibre of the planning and research he did, similar in style and substance to his car "accident".

So ultimately I do think there is a strong chance there was a trigger for it to happen that night, combined with the circumstances being right with the girls out the house. More likely to be money than Toni. I dunno, maybe we will find he orchestrated the girls not being there and that will throw my estimation of this whole thing off.
Click to expand...
Ozazure, my interpretation of events is in line with this too. Whether or not the children spent the whole night in their home is not clear to me. Because their school is just a short walk from their home, the real reason for Olivia being there is not clear either. A number of scenarios could be put in place by us who aren't privy to any details.
 
ozazure said:
I think you are on the money (ha!) with this. Personally I think he daydreamed for a long time about what Allison dying would mean for him, a big pile of cash to get him out of trouble and freedom to be with Toni. As his desperation grew he started toying with the idea more and more. Made a few phone calls. Most people at this point of desperation would have just called it quits on everything, the marriage, the debt ... there was really nothing stopping him throwing the towel in on it all and being Toni's kept man. But he's a greedy vain man.

I think while her death was something he had thought a lot about, her murder was not something he had planned much. I do buy that he potentially looked up the 5th amendment stuff while watching a show and it reloaded that morning, because this is the calibre of the planning and research he did, similar in style and substance to his car "accident".

So ultimately I do think there is a strong chance there was a trigger for it to happen that night, combined with the circumstances being right with the girls out the house. More likely to be money than Toni. I dunno, maybe we will find he orchestrated the girls not being there and that will throw my estimation of this whole thing off.
Click to expand...

Agree with this too. Ummm.... Pre-meditated comes to mind here.
And yes, that car "accident" .... well that "accident" bought him a bit of extra time. (Successfully.) I am of the understanding that he had an appointment to have a full body inspection, on the day of that (co-incidental) "accident."
 
Couldbe said:
I will be 'Russian' around for the next 3 weeks, but the Trial will not be completely out of my mind ..... Justice for Allison commencing on 10 June ..... as Olivia has said 'the truth will be told'! JMO, but the lies will be revealed as such.
Click to expand...

Yes Couldbe the lies and the truth.

The truth will hurt the liars and the liars will be in a raging damage control. It will be no holds barred. GBC wants OUT whatever it takes and whoever suffers.

Mr & Mrs Dickie will live the horror again, the defence will try to drag their daughter's name through the mud and their grief will again be raw.
A little prayer for the Dickies because they will need all the strength they can muster. They are not youngsters.
Let's face it, they're ones left holding the babies.
 
ozazure said:
I think you are on the money (ha!) with this. Personally I think he daydreamed for a long time about what Allison dying would mean for him, a big pile of cash to get him out of trouble and freedom to be with Toni. As his desperation grew he started toying with the idea more and more. Made a few phone calls. Most people at this point of desperation would have just called it quits on everything, the marriage, the debt ... there was really nothing stopping him throwing the towel in on it all and being Toni's kept man. But he's a greedy vain man.

I think while her death was something he had thought a lot about, her murder was not something he had planned much. I do buy that he potentially looked up the 5th amendment stuff while watching a show and it reloaded that morning, because this is the calibre of the planning and research he did, similar in style and substance to his car "accident".

So ultimately I do think there is a strong chance there was a trigger for it to happen that night, combined with the circumstances being right with the girls out the house. More likely to be money than Toni. I dunno, maybe we will find he orchestrated the girls not being there and that will throw my estimation of this whole thing off.
Click to expand...


oh the trigger.. whatever it was, it took him right out of the reality zone.. Olivia down for a visit, the cousins booked in for a sleepover the next night.. the wretched 'conference ' thingy that Alison was going to and Toni adamant that she doesn't, the unknown ( I am sure of this) arrangement Alison had made with the other girl from the office for shared transport, the ongoing counselling sessions. But on that night, a small window of opportunity.. Alison and Gerard home alone, together. One that doesn't often present itself with small children, a busy busy fussy doodling busy like Gerards, a busy one like Alisons with a job and 3 small girls to organise, family, family in law, ... that night was just out of the blue.

And agreed, in spades with ribbons on re Toni or the money. The money was the catalyst. Toni could wait, hell's bells she had waited and waited and no matter what garbage he served up to her , still she waited , all agog and making plans. And so forgiving, too!.. The money couldn't wait. Real people with real muscle were onto him re the money.
 
For sure, he daydreamed about her death.. not so much in the nitty gritty of it, I reckon... more along the lines of Alison gone, .. a euphemism he would have used to himself.. I think he shocked himself silly when he did murder her. He had no way of knowing just how much effort it takes to kill someone with your bare hands. ( I am presuming , here) How they refuse to die , they will struggle, they may even shout or scream or nail you down with the perfect observation of you while they die. He had to finish once he started though..
 
Trooper said:
oh the trigger.. whatever it was, it took him right out of the reality zone.. Olivia down for a visit, the cousins booked in for a sleepover the next night.. the wretched 'conference ' thingy that Alison was going to and Toni adamant that she doesn't, the unknown ( I am sure of this) arrangement Alison had made with the other girl from the office for shared transport, the ongoing counselling sessions. But on that night, a small window of opportunity.. Alison and Gerard home alone, together. One that doesn't often present itself with small children, a busy busy fussy doodling busy like Gerards, a busy one like Alisons with a job and 3 small girls to organise, family, family in law, ... that night was just out of the blue.

And agreed, in spades with ribbons on re Toni or the money. The money was the catalyst. Toni could wait, hell's bells she had waited and waited and no matter what garbage he served up to her , still she waited , all agog and making plans. And so forgiving, too!.. The money couldn't wait. Real people with real muscle were onto him re the money.
Click to expand...
The Trigger? Hmmm ... The phone call from Toni? The phone call that couldn't wait; The phone call that needed to be heard; All of it, all the rantings: the phone call that was all indignant, the phone call that forced him an ultimatum.
Whaddya mean, Allison at the same conference too??? Never knew that before! (Shock horror) Together with <modsnip>? Nooooo! (<modsnip> can't look Allison in the eye)

And having said all that, why not absolve self and put all blame on Toni. Might even make it look like she was the culprit.
Motive means and opportunity all there; just no signature. Allison's fingernail signature scratches not on her face. (Note to self: Need to fix that)
 
LadyBird1 said:
The Trigger? Hmmm ... The phone call from Toni? The phone call that couldn't wait; The phone call that needed to be heard; All of it, all the rantings: the phone call that was all indignant, the phone call that forced him an ultimatum.
Whaddya mean, Allison at the same conference too??? Never knew that before! (Shock horror) Together with <modsnip>? Nooooo! (<modsnip> can't look Allison in the eye)

And having said all that, why not absolve self and put all blame on Toni. Might even make it look like she was the culprit.
Motive means and opportunity all there; just no signature. Allison's fingernail signature scratches not on her face. (Note to self: Need to fix that)
Click to expand...

that outraged phone call from Toni about the conference would have been a factor. an irritating factor, no doubt. But he had fobbed Toni off before, a hundred times, he even fired her in front of all the staff , he told all the staff about her and him and being found out, he put his wife in her office and chair!!.. She, Alison, went to the same gym, and was a lady of leisure compared to Toni!, she , Alison , wouldn't let go!. She, Alison, checked his mobile phone!! She, Alison, made him come home early from work and have couch time with the kids!.. But did it put Toni off?? not a bit of it. she clung like glue. He was a master at fobbing Toni off into other areas of stress.. He'd been doing it for 3 years.

The money was the armbreaker.
 
Trooper said:
For sure, he daydreamed about her death.. not so much in the nitty gritty of it, I reckon... more along the lines of Alison gone, .. a euphemism he would have used to himself.. I think he shocked himself silly when he did murder her. He had no way of knowing just how much effort it takes to kill someone with your bare hands. ( I am presuming , here) How they refuse to die , they will struggle, they may even shout or scream or nail you down with the perfect observation of you while they die. He had to finish once he started though..
Click to expand...

Note quite so simple Trooper. Allison gone or deceased equals big insurance payout. Insurance Money equals funds desired so greatly.
Agree completely BTW regarding the nitty gritty not thought out to perfection. Just an evil eye on the Money.
Regarding a novice killing someone ....
Might refuse to die, might Nail you down.... With Finger Nail Scratches....
 
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