alternate theories to NC death

Discussion in 'Nancy Cooper' started by jrb0124, Apr 17, 2011.

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  1. jrb0124

    jrb0124 New Member

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    Starting this post for those who would like to respectfully engage in discussion and speculation of alternate theories regarding the death of NC.


    Here is ONE possible alternate explanation:

    July 2008 situation:

    *BC/NC failed marriage
    *NC has indicated she wants a separation/divorce
    *NC had affairs and/or was having an affair

    I don't think anyone would dispute the truth of first two statements. There is indication that we'll hear testimony and/or evidence to the claims made in the third statement, so for the purpose of this exercise lets assume we do and that the testimony/evidence is convincing. The three statements above, with no further embellishment of detail is a plausible scenario. By the time the defense finishes presenting its case, the jurists will probably agree with the 3 statements above.


    presuming an ongoing NC/?? affair, it completely plausible that:

    *?? was also married
    *NC/?? "meetings" were pre-arranged by txt or email
    *"meetings" would occur at a place where they would be unlikely to be caught

    To this point, every starred statement is completely plausible. You could build a alternate explanation involving the accidental death of NC around those statements. Here is one:

    1) NC had a prearranged meeting with ?? for the morning of July 12, sometime after 7:00, somewhere near where her body was found.

    2) (optional angle) prior to or at around 1:00 on 7/11 BC intercepted or saw some communication relating to the meeting/location, on 7/11 he looked up what he thought was the the vicinity of the meeting location based on landmark or directions mentioned in the intercepted communication.

    3) She left on foot for this meeting in her running gear around 7 AM on 7/12. Yes, NC drank a lot the night before and was up late and up ealry, but NC intended to keep this meeting.

    4) For the "activity" NC is dressed only in what her body was found wearing: the sports bra - could have been left on for any number of reasons.

    5) During the "activity" in the car of ?? NC is accidentally killed. (see Dr. Sheperd's testimony here.)

    6) ?? panics, runs through the consequence of each course of action, and decides to dump her body and drive off - disposing of her clothes.

    If optional 2) is part of the explanation, it would explain the map image found, but why wouldn't BC tell this to the CPD and clear himself? One reason could be that he did not want to implicate himself as spying on NC, and reasoned that the CPD would discover the txt mssg (wiped) or email (???) and figure this out themselves. Once it became apparent that CPD did not have or was ignoring any communication, he reasoned he was in even deeper trouble for withholding it. Since NC messages were wiped from phone (or email deleted/unavailable), there would be no way for BC to prove the message existed. Following this theory, BC also reasoned that since he did not kill NC he would not be convicted. If there is such a message, the defense may have decided to bring it up when its their turn for better effect vs cross of pros witnesses.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Is there any evidence or testimony to date that would make the explanation I posted above impossible? I really am curious.

    I am not claiming that is happened this way, just suggesting it as a possible explanation given the evidence and testimony to date. I have other possible theories/alternate explanations that I will post here as well. Some of those include BC as culpable or involved, some are variations of the one above. I just wanted to start with this one. If others have alternate explanations as well (BC guilty or not), I would love to hear them.
     
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  3. gracielee

    gracielee Active Member

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    Just my personal opinion here, but I think suggesting things like this PRIOR TO the defense putting on it's case, intentionally smears the victim and her reputation without any sort of evidence. MOO If, after the defense begins it case, and we hear any sort of evidence suggesting otherwise, okay. But once rumors and innuendoes become almost *fact-like* online, they are memorialized forever and run rampant through time. Like the 'no footprints in the snow' or 'John Ramsey was involved in kiddie porn in Amsterdam'. Or that "Jessica Lunsford's grandfather was a child molestor', when the fact was when he was a *young* man, he had sex with a *younger* female than himself. Something along those lines IIRC. Again, these are MOO's Without any sort of evidence, people like JA, HP, and numerous others, are having their names dragged through the mud, simply because they were good friends who worried about a now obviously 'at risk' friend. MOO
     
  4. justthinking2008

    justthinking2008 New Member

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    With all due respect I do not think anyone wants to run the victim through the mud in this case. I am not 100% convinced of BC's innocence nor am I 100% convinced of his guilt. The evidence presently submitted does leave some room for doubt. When I think about the eyewitness report of seeing her running on Lochmere towards Lily Atkins it gives me concern, if indeed this is true and NC ran down Lily Atkins Road anyone could have abducted her as the road does not have houses and is not heavily traveled. I have really wanted the prosecution to bring forth a "smoking gun" which to date IMO they have not done. So I think it is reasonable to at least consider that someone other than BC may have killed her. The one thing I do think is that if BC killed her he could not have acted alone, someone had to help him. I do feel that NC was killed by someone she knew, cannot say for sure it was BC. I have followed this case since she went missing in 2008, I have not posted in a couple of years because I wanted to see the evidence, all of which we have not seen to date.
     
  5. sunshine05

    sunshine05 New Member

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    jrb0124: I think it's possible that things could have happened that way. However, I believe it's more likely that BC would have come forward about his knowledge of the meeting when/where since it was clear that something went wrong. Snooping on emails is much less serious than murder and if he had spoken up that day, the evidence on the phone/email/text (whatever) would have been there. Kurtz brings up a good point about this case. Why didn't CPD try that day to crack into her cell phone to see if there were any clues about possible meetings. Wouldn't one want to know who she was most recently communicating with?
     
  6. sunshine05

    sunshine05 New Member

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    Thinking about things some more, I think the reason I'm suspicious of the "friends" is because they *knew* NC was dead, even before a search began. I get chills thinking about that. How was that possible? What would make them suspect that BC killed their friend so quickly, even before a search was initiated? They both said under oath that he never hurt her, that NC wasn't afraid of him. Knowing everything that's been said, that would not be my *first* thought. It would be - maybe she changed her plans, maybe she got hurt, maybe someone attacked her even. I don't think I would immediately say "my friend is missing. I'll bet her husband killed her". IF they thought he was capable of this, if they were true friends, they would have insisted she leave immediately and stay with them. Isn't that what anyone here would do for their friend in a dangerous situation? Well, since none of them thought she was in a dangerous situation why did they think such horrible thoughts about BC - immediately???


    I have a couple of theories but I can't post them here. To be honest, it creeps me out even thinking/discussing them but I have pm'd a couple of you to discuss them offline.
     
  7. jrb0124

    jrb0124 New Member

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    Thus far, in 20+ trial thread there has been volumes of unsubstantiated things suggested prior to the pros finishing on its case, much less the defense starting.

    I don't agree that suggesting alternate theories = intentionally smearing the victim. None of this is stated as fact, just hypotheticals and that's made clear. Participating in "sleuth" discussions should mean you are considering all possibilities and angles, not just the ones that fit the pros storyline or the outcome you personally want. It also means you share insight and ideas based on your understanding of the facts and testimony to date.

    I have considered the pros storyline, and it makes sense to a certain degree, but alternative therories (in general - not the specifically the one posted so far) may make as much or even more sense.
     
  8. SleuthinNC

    SleuthinNC New Member

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    I think an ongoing affair is a definite possibility. I would really like to know who she went running with Thursday and why HP lied to cover it up. I think it could be key to figuring out who she may have been involved with.
     
  9. jrb0124

    jrb0124 New Member

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    If anyone has alternate theories (that do not violate the TOS) which they would like ME to post anonymously for them, you can PM those theories to me and I will paraphrase and post them for you without your name.
     
  10. Shadow722

    Shadow722 New Member

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    Not an alternate theory, but I have been puzzling over the complete lack of defensive wounds on the victim NC.

    The fight or flight instinct is so strong that some sort of defensive wounds or significant marks should be present on both the victim or perpetrator and marks left at the crime scene to indicate a struggle unless:

    1) The victim was already unconscious either by being drunk or drugged. (meaning Brad Did It)

    2) The victim participated in the strangulation as a partner/participant in auto-erotic asphyxiation. (meaning Brad Did Not Do It)

    I can think of no other reason(s) for a complete lack of defensive wounds on the victim.

    Any other thoughts......
     
  11. jrb0124

    jrb0124 New Member

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    Yes, that is a possibility - if you follow the link in the initial post you will see why I also consider that as one alternate theory (read expert witness Dr. Sheperd part).
     
  12. justthinking2008

    justthinking2008 New Member

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    The problem with this case is there are too many possibilities and too many unanswered questions. I think it would be easy to fit everything inside the box the prosecution is laying out, also it is easy to see how someone else could have done it. It is a fact from KL own mouth that NC had male friends and may have carried out an affair. It is a fact that BC cheated, neither of these things make him a killer or him any worse than her. They had marital problems, many people do and many are able to work it out, BC and NC may have worked it out, her death does not allow us to know the outcome. No one knows everything that goes on inside a marriage or home, it may not have been as bad as many people perceive it to be, but thier perception is thier reality. I do not believe that BC killed her in the home, no evidence to suggest it and let's face it he could not clean up well enough to cover all the tracks a murder would have left. Secondly, I do not believe he would be stupid enough to leave her basically naked on the side of the road, if he covered up everything else why not that, makes no logical sense. Also, if he "snapped" I believe he may well have broken her neck not just the hyoid bone in her neck, he was a big strong guy, I also believe she would have fought him back very hard she was not a tiny woman, he could not have easily controlled her. Given the fact we have heard from several people he was a good dad, I do not think he would have left the children home alone, too much risk in that. There are too many open ends which I am hoping the prosecution or the defense can tie up, we shall see
     
  13. sunshine05

    sunshine05 New Member

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    Good post. There really are a lot of unanswered questions in this case. It's been my feeling all along that it would be unlikely for him to leave her exposed that way. It just doesn't make any sense at all which makes me think something else must have happened.

    If we are to buy into the pros case of the Fielding Drive search on his computer, him "snapping" and attacking her when she arrives home doesn't fit. If he was planning it, he wouldn't have done it with the kids in the home. It doesn't make sense.
     
  14. SleuthinNC

    SleuthinNC New Member

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    The thing I can't get past is why the lies from HP and JA. Who are they covering for? Would they cover for a lover? What do they know that they are not telling? And why?
     
  15. Tink56

    Tink56 Member

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    :floorlaugh: Sorry...I am not demeaning or laughing at/with you personally.

    I just had a mental image of Mr. Kurtz, stymied about his approach for the defense, trolling for theories here at WS...Stranger things have been said to happen! :crazy:

    I'll be quiet now and go back to the corner...:silenced:
     
  16. jrb0124

    jrb0124 New Member

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    THAT is funny. Honestly though, I think some of the posters here could do a better job as both pros and defense in this particular case.
     
  17. jrb0124

    jrb0124 New Member

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    Alternate theory PM'ed to me:

    *note: this is a theory re: motive for someone other than BC to kill NC, not a statement or suggestion of fact*

    *NC may have even been extorting money from someone.
    *Some of her friends knew about it.
    *These friends were aware she was planning to receive $ on 7/12 (thus an criminal act).
    *The person she was extorting from could be the biological father of her younger child if the father is in fact not BC.
     
  18. macd

    macd New Member

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    If she left on foot, the K9 squad would have picked up her scent.
    If she was not killed until after 7am, the blow fly larvae would not have been as large.
    If she received SMS or voice calls on her cell phone, the phone company would have records. There were no messages.
    If she dressed herself in that sport bra, it would not have been rolled under.
     
  19. justthinking2008

    justthinking2008 New Member

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    Just a thought has anyone considered the perp may not have been able to get her sports bra off. not on, just saying. If all of her other clothes were removed the sports bra could have been too difficult, but not for BC he had the the muscle to remove, perhaps a woman or a smaller man did not. Again just thinking...
     
  20. WolfpackWoman

    WolfpackWoman Inactive

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    All of these are wrong!!

    --The K9 search was too late--by double the time the dog had ever tracked. There was no way he was going to get a scent after that amount of time. It was useless testimony.

    --The larvae is the exact same as it would have been if she were dumped at 11am or 4am. There is NO scientific significance to the results. The time isn't precise because there were only 4 maggots left, and because the flies don't oviposit at night. Again, useless testimony. He stated it was JUST as likely, based on the maggots, for body to be dumped at 11am as it was for 4am or prior.

    --She did receive text messages on the 12th. They know who it was from, but not the content of the messages. I can't remember which of her friend's it was. No phone calls were recorded because none were answered. But she did have voicemails never listened to, and no indication of how many old texts.

    --Sports bra rolling is not science. If someone places a sports bra on you, then it will go on smooth and straight. Try it. If however, someone is trying to remove the sports bra, or dragging a body, it can roll under. But it would be silly to attach qualifiers like "always" and "never" to sports bra rolling, when so many things make differences--body size, type, bra material, whether it's going on or off, etc.
     
  21. Just the Fax

    Just the Fax Justice For The Fisher's

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    Hate to be a thread pooper, but I can't think of single credible alternate theory.:cool2:
     
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