Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight - General discussion #4

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CazzBa

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That part I understand. It's pretty clear. I was looking at the actually indictment, where he is charged with monthly rapes. Maybe there testimony is going to be that it happened at least once a month. So they are going to charge him with it for every month. It just seems a little vague to me.

Yeah, I'm sure that after just a few weeks, the girls must have lost all track of time. I wonder if even night and day had any meaning for them, since I think even when they were kept upstairs, they didn't get any daylight.

For most of the assaults there was probably no way to figure out exactly when they happened since the girls probably had no idea what the time of day was let alone what the date was or what day of the week it was.

I'm guessing investigators figured after talking to the girls that the assaults definitely occurred at least once every 30 days but not as frequently as every 7 days (weekly) so that's the minimum they think can be effectively proved. I suspect the sad reality is that were many, many assaults for which Castro will never be charged.
 

Jn24

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Yeah, I'm sure that after just a few weeks, the girls must have lost all track of time. I wonder if even night and day had any meaning for them, since I think even when they were kept upstairs, they didn't get any daylight.

For most of the assaults there was probably no way to figure out exactly when they happened since the girls probably had no idea what the time of day was let alone what the date was or what day of the week it was.

I'm guessing investigators figured after talking to the girls that the assaults definitely occurred at least once every 30 days but not as frequently as every 7 days (weekly) so that's the minimum they think can be effectively proved. I suspect the sad reality is that were many, many assaults for which Castro will never be charged.
It seems also possible, that the girls won't remember every form of assault either. Appropriate emotional self preservation mental defenses are probably deeply involved here.IMO..as they should be. The times and dates --yeah they're aren't going to know the ones not correlated to the initial missing dates unless they had some external input. Heck when I go on vacation I forget what day it is after a week or so without constant tv, newspaper, cellphone, internet routines etc. for time reference..I cannot totally grasp what the 3 girls days/nights were like. However we do understand these kids had some tv time, so there obviously was some date/time reference ability.
 

mysteriew

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I think you're 100% right, carmenugt, about the suicide watch and him being nude. In some jails/prisons, someone on suicide watch has to wear a suicide gown (very becoming, I must say). It's made of very strong material that can't be shredded for making a noose, etc. And the prisoner would have no sheets, or either specially made ones...

So if a jail/prison did not have the special items, the prisoner would prolly have to be nude when on suicide watch.

Fashion statement below, showing model wearing the suicide gown:



Suicide-Gown-lg.jpg

IDK. I wouldn't be adverse to making him go nude all the time. But I would think that keeping him nude would be considered "cruel and unusual" punishment and probably wouldn't be allowed. And if it was usual, the guards wouldn't have mentioned it in their notes.

I think he was either trying a passive thing to get back at the guards for "staring" at him (checking on him every 10 min.) or he is just used to going nude inside. Or maybe he had some idea of trying to appear crazy.

It would be interesting to hear if he goes nude now that he is back in the regular jail.
 

mysteriew

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I know, having Ariel Castro imprisoned like this just doesn't seem like justice.

Natural light, freedom to move around at least within his cell, regular exercise (I'm assuming he'll get that even if he's put on death row), regular meals (doubt if Ohio prison food is that good, but its gotta beat McDonald's for 10 years), perks and privileges like TVs, radios etc. and I'm sure a lot of other things I haven't thought of -- the girls had none of those things for a decade in their prison.

Sigh.

It isn't as bad as the girls had. But I am hoping the loss of control will hit him hard. He is used to being the one in charge. At home, on the bus. But now, he has no power. He is told when to get up, he is told when to eat and what. He is told when he can shower, and when he can exercise. He isn't permitted to socialize. And from another article I posted, he is being jeered at some. No guitar and no music. Up till now he wasn't even allowed reading material.

So physically it isn't as bad as the girls. But I think he will have a tough time with it, at least for awhile.
 

borndem

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IDK. I wouldn't be adverse to making him go nude all the time. But I would think that keeping him nude would be considered "cruel and unusual" punishment and probably wouldn't be allowed. And if it was usual, the guards wouldn't have mentioned it in their notes.

I think he was either trying a passive thing to get back at the guards for "staring" at him (checking on him every 10 min.) or he is just used to going nude inside. Or maybe he had some idea of trying to appear crazy.

It would be interesting to hear if he goes nude now that he is back in the regular jail.

bbm

I'll agree with that, too, mysteriew. You could be exactly right -- the "crazy" angle. That was my first thought until carmenugt (bbm) brought up the point about suicide watch -- which also makes good sense. The jail can't let a suicide-prone prisoner go around in regular clothing with regular sheets on the cell bed, though, so you wonder ...

Someone earlier posted that he complained about being cold -- the poor guy: it's bad enuff he's being confined against his will, having to eat prolly sub-standard food -- and he doesn't get a choice as to what he wants, and not being able to drive to MacD's and get a double cheeseburger, fries and a large Coke whenever he wants to; not able to take a walk around the block or speak to friends; or watch his fave TV programs, etc., etc. And I'll bet those poor women would have jumped at the chance for some boiled eggs & KoolAid for breakfast -- seriously.

But we haven't had a report that he is dog-chained to a stake in the middle of his cell, or that prison employees are raping and hurting him whenever they want, and he won't get pregnant as a result even if they did -- so there's no chance of him being starved and having his abdomen pounded to badly that he loses the fetus & all, so at least that's a plus...

Nope, he ain't cray-cray enuff yet -- he's got to do better that what he's done, or he just might have to go to trial one day...
icon10.gif


:pullhair: here ends my unintended mini-rant :rant:
 

Kimster

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Please discuss the plea here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208583"]Ariel Castro arraignment - 5/9/2013 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Trying to keep things on topic with the court issues.
 

Flakes

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bbm

I'll agree with that, too, mysteriew. You could be exactly right -- the "crazy" angle. That was my first thought until carmenugt (bbm) brought up the point about suicide watch -- which also makes good sense. The jail can't let a suicide-prone prisoner go around in regular clothing with regular sheets on the cell bed, though, so you wonder ...

Someone earlier posted that he complained about being cold -- the poor guy: it's bad enuff he's being confined against his will, having to eat prolly sub-standard food -- and he doesn't get a choice as to what he wants, and not being able to drive to MacD's and get a double cheeseburger, fries and a large Coke whenever he wants to; not able to take a walk around the block or speak to friends; or watch his fave TV programs, etc., etc. And I'll bet those poor women would have jumped at the chance for some boiled eggs & KoolAid for breakfast -- seriously.

But we haven't had a report that he is dog-chained to a stake in the middle of his cell, or that prison employees are raping and hurting him whenever they want, and he won't get pregnant as a result even if they did -- so there's no chance of him being starved and having his abdomen pounded to badly that he loses the fetus & all, so at least that's a plus...

Nope, he ain't cray-cray enuff yet -- he's got to do better that what he's done, or he just might have to go to trial one day...
icon10.gif


:pullhair: here ends my unintended mini-rant :rant:

One of the things that makes a society civilised is its ability to establish and maintain minimum health and housing standards for even the lowest members of that society – those in jail for heinous crimes. To treat them with less than those minimum standards would mean society acts in an uncivilised manner. That is, at the same level of depravity as those criminals it incarcerates.
 

ExpectingUnicorns

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One of the things that makes a society civilised is its ability to establish and maintain minimum health and housing standards for even the lowest members of that society – those in jail for heinous crimes. To treat them with less than those minimum standards would mean society acts in an uncivilised manner. That is, at the same level of depravity as those criminals it incarcerates.

Please let me know when you see that any society lives up to this lofty ideal. Our poor, many of whom have never been accused (let alone convicted) of any crimes, live in substandard "housing."

Considering the amount of work we have to do in this area, I have no problem prioritizing Castro at the bottom of my list.
 

Cher352

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Does anyone know if they got the fence yet and if the city gave them a variance for a 6' one? I hope so but I wouldn't put it past some people to try and view over the top of fence anyway.

Also it would be nice if the city would make the street abutting the Dejesus home no parking for a time or parking by permit only. That way no one could stand on a vehicle to peer over the fence.
 

danzn16

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If reporters continue to peer over the top, cops need to be called. Totally unacceptable in any situation much less one when they are making people held captive further be held captive. I don't know I would put some electric fence at the top of the fencing. Let some reporters grab that crap. Vultures


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KaaBoom

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Does anyone know if they got the fence yet and if the city gave them a variance for a 6' one? I hope so but I wouldn't put it past some people to try and view over the top of fence anyway.

Also it would be nice if the city would make the street abutting the Dejesus home no parking for a time or parking by permit only. That way no one could stand on a vehicle to peer over the fence.

Where did you read that they would need a variance for a 6' fence? Their neighbors all have 6' dog-eared fence around their back yards.
 

mysteriew

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If reporters continue to peer over the top, cops need to be called. Totally unacceptable in any situation much less one when they are making people held captive further be held captive. I don't know I would put some electric fence at the top of the fencing. Let some reporters grab that crap. Vultures


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If the neighbors wanted to help the family out, they could post their backyards with No Trespassing signs. Then any reporter that tried to see over the fence could be arrested.

Now if only they could do something about the helicopters.
 

KaaBoom

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If the neighbors wanted to help the family out, they could post their backyards with No Trespassing signs. Then any reporter that tried to see over the fence could be arrested.

Now if only they could do something about the helicopters.

Their house is on a corner lot, with nothing but a four foot chain link fence around it. So anybody walking down or driving down either of the two streets can see almost every square inch of their front and back yards, without even trying. There is no reason for reporters or anyone else to trespass or peer over the top of a fence to see into their yard.

The proposed six foot dog-eared fence around their yard, should solve their privacy problem. The police can deal with any trespassers after the fence has been constructed.

Screenshot2013-06-15at82732PM_zpsab08db03.jpg
 

CazzBa

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I was perusing the interwebs and beyond, seeing if anyone at all had any updates on how the girls are doing and I stumbled across this:

A reporter for a Cleveland local news station was asked through his Twitter account earlier today if he had any updates on how Amanda, Gina and Michelle were adjusting to life on the outside.
https://twitter.com/ScottTaylor19

Don't know how credible his sources are, but apparently:
Gina DeJesus - doing OK
Michelle Knight - no news
Amanda Berry - "having a difficult time talking"

It's not clear from the reporter's tweets about what or to whom Amanda is having difficulty speaking, but my heart went out to the poor girl nonetheless. And it's hardly surprising that communicating with people in any context after so long in isolation is a challenge.
Glad that Gina is doing well, hopefully Michelle is too.
 

Jn24

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I was perusing the interwebs and beyond, seeing if anyone at all had any updates on how the girls are doing and I stumbled across this:

A reporter for a Cleveland local news station was asked through his Twitter account earlier today if he had any updates on how Amanda, Gina and Michelle were adjusting to life on the outside.
https://twitter.com/ScottTaylor19

Don't know how credible his sources are, but apparently:
Gina DeJesus - doing OK
Michelle Knight - no news
Amanda Berry - "having a difficult time talking"

It's not clear from the reporter's tweets about what or to whom Amanda is having difficulty speaking, but my heart went out to the poor girl nonetheless. And it's hardly surprising that communicating with people in any context after so long in isolation is a challenge.
Glad that Gina is doing well, hopefully Michelle is too.
Yeah i read this on twitter too about Ms. Berry. It going to take her awhile ......
guess its not unexpected. My best to her... and to them all
 

mysteriew

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I was perusing the interwebs and beyond, seeing if anyone at all had any updates on how the girls are doing and I stumbled across this:

A reporter for a Cleveland local news station was asked through his Twitter account earlier today if he had any updates on how Amanda, Gina and Michelle were adjusting to life on the outside.
https://twitter.com/ScottTaylor19

Don't know how credible his sources are, but apparently:
Gina DeJesus - doing OK
Michelle Knight - no news
Amanda Berry - "having a difficult time talking"

It's not clear from the reporter's tweets about what or to whom Amanda is having difficulty speaking, but my heart went out to the poor girl nonetheless. And it's hardly surprising that communicating with people in any context after so long in isolation is a challenge.
Glad that Gina is doing well, hopefully Michelle is too.

One tweet says the prosecution may bring additional charges next week.
 

KaaBoom

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Ariel Castro to have pre-trial hearing June 26; more charges coming (video, slideshow)

By Plain Dealer staff
on June 19, 2013 at 9:29 AM, updated June 19, 2013 at 11:44 AM

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Ariel Castro, the 52-year-old Cleveland man accused of holding three women captive in his West Side home for more than a decade, is to have another pre-trial hearing June 26.

Also, Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty today said he intends to present more evidence to a grand jury next week and file additional charges against Castro. Castro already faces more than 300 charges.

Castro appeared for a pretrial hearing in Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court today, and replied to questions with yes and no answers.


Ariel Castro to have pre-trial hearing June 26; more charges coming (video, slideshow)
 
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