Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[KPinMN]

One thing I can say is that what really made me more convinced Amanda wasn't involved in Merediths murder is after seeing interviews with Raffaele Sollecito. There was something that felt so much more honest and genuine listening to him (even with shaky English and sometimes an interpreter) something in his behavior that comes across better for me than Amanda. I've avoided watching many things with Amanda because she just makes me uncomfortable with my brain and gut being on different pages.

 

[celticthyme]

I have followed Amanda's case from the beginning as well. ( I had a daughter study in Italy a couple of years after she did.) I have never believed she and Rafaeli had anything to do with Meredeth's death.

She has always seemed to me to be someone who'd lived a fairly sheltered life, and got her first whiff of freedom when she got to Italy. Almost immediately her room mate is murdered and she is in way over her head. That, on top of being in a foreign country, not speaking the language and certainly not equipped to deal with the powerful, aggressive and unusual legal system there. Her interrogation was totally illegal, but how is a naive 21 year old supposed to know how to deal with this kind of a nightmare in a foreign country? I also think she is not comfortable expressing herself, and now is afraid nearly anything she says will be misconstrued or held against her. My heart goes out to her and everything she has been through.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Are you guys watching this interview .. poor girl!

Yes! I saw it! I couldn't stop watching! Really great interview. I didn't follow the case as closely as many others here. I want to believe her SO BAD, and yes...at times I felt deep sympathy for her while watching the CNN interview tonight, but like others have said there is something about the way she communicates that is off putting. The way she hesitates and pauses before she utters a word is odd to me. But then again...like you said in one of your later posts here on this thread - we've only gotten to known her as an accused murderess, and don't know how she behaved beforehand. I kept wanting her to say over and over that she didn't do it and that she felt horrible about what happened to Meredith, and she finally did say it at the end I believe. A few things about her interview bothered me- and some of them could have been due to the editing, but the one thing that kept bothering me is that she kept saying over throughout the interview "there is no evidence that can put me there". I noticed she kept saying it even before the interviewer pointed it out. I really want to believe she didn't have ANY involvement with murdering Meredith, but gosh...I just don't know. I won't buy her book, but I have to admit that I am intrigued.

 

[mrsu]

Here's the thing for me, nobody will believe a word that she says. So all that she has to fall back on is the fact that there was no evidence that she took part in any of the crime. I think that since she knows that people don't believe her she resorts to using that fact because other than that there's nothing left to convince people that she's innocent. I think she has tried to explain that she wasn't involved, and people still don't believe her, so that's why she is trying to convince everyone and show everyone that the evidence goes along with what she's telling people she wasn't there there's no evidence to say that she was involved.

 

[minazoe]

Amanda's knuckles were very disturbing to me, I don't know many females who are willing to destroy their hands in a self defense class.

she is a little drama queen , who said the word "i" a thousand times in every sentence...her tears do not seem genuing...or even tear -like...so why try...she seemed to succeed in making her eyes red...and that was bout it...

something about her is very odd....those knuckles...not cool.

 

[Emmi]

We have to understand that we have only known her as an accused murderess .. that perception, and her knowledge of that perception has kept her not only shut in, but as a focal point. The accusation, and her reaction to the accusation makes her appear strange.

I know very little about the case. I remember snippets of TV reports and, just last night, read the Wikipedia entry after I caught a portion of Knox's interview on CNN.

Concerning her oddness, has Asperger Syndrome come up? That's what came to my mind when I was listening to and watching her--that she's very smart and possibly mildly autistic. And, on top of that, obviously traumatized.

 

[Emmi]

Amanda's knuckles were very disturbing to me, I don't know many females who are willing to destroy their hands in a self defense class.

she is a little drama queen , who said the word "i" a thousand times in every sentence...her tears do not seem genuing...or even tear -like...so why try...she seemed to succeed in making her eyes red...and that was bout it...

something about her is very odd....those knuckles...not cool.

Not arguing one way or another about her innocence, because I don't know enough. But, I don't think saying "I" a thousand times during an interview about oneself, and one's innocence, is at all unusual. She was the subject of the interview, after all.

ETA: Why wouldn't a female be willing to "destroy her hands" with a few superficial scrapes as a side-effect of taking self-defense class? I don't get that comment. As if not having flawlessly feminine hands is a sign of gender-aberrant behaviour?

 

[Gypsy Road]

Here's the thing for me, nobody will believe a word that she says. So all that she has to fall back on is the fact that there was no evidence that she took part in any of the crime. I think that since she knows that people don't believe her she resorts to using that fact because other than that there's nothing left to convince people that she's innocent. I think she has tried to explain that she wasn't involved, and people still don't believe her, so that's why she is trying to convince everyone and show everyone that the evidence goes along with what she's telling people she wasn't there there's no evidence to say that she was involved.

See, I don't know mrsu. I think I could believe her. I'm totally on the fence about whether or not she was involved. I've never been so 50/50 in my life about an accused murderer. But there something about the way she communicates that makes me feel uneasy about her. I want to believe her. I was almost there until I saw her interview last night. I'm still not sure. She is a huge puzzle to me!

 

[Katie-L]

Here's the thing for me, nobody will believe a word that she says. So all that she has to fall back on is the fact that there was no evidence that she took part in any of the crime. I think that since she knows that people don't believe her she resorts to using that fact because other than that there's nothing left to convince people that she's innocent. I think she has tried to explain that she wasn't involved, and people still don't believe her, so that's why she is trying to convince everyone and show everyone that the evidence goes along with what she's telling people she wasn't there there's no evidence to say that she was involved.

2 Italian Appeal judges and an entire appeal jury believe her.

Independant Forensic experts believe her.

A large portion of Purugians and Italians believe her (now).

Millions of people around the world believe her.

Many people on this forum believe her (I'm one of them - and I don't even know her).

But be honest - it's not up to a defendant to convince people that they are innocent. It is up to a state/crown/prosecutor to prove they are guilty.

Amanda Knox is not the first American to be falsely imprisoned - and she won't be the last (even the best justice system will always have flaws).

But she is undoubtedly one of the few acquitted Americans of whom it could be said:- if her trial had been held in a US court - it never would have got past the indictment phase.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Amanda's knuckles were very disturbing to me, I don't know many females who are willing to destroy their hands in a self defense class.

she is a little drama queen , who said the word "i" a thousand times in every sentence...her tears do not seem genuing...or even tear -like...so why try...she seemed to succeed in making her eyes red...and that was bout it...

something about her is very odd....those knuckles...not cool.

Wait. I'm not saying she is innocent or guilty cause I just don't know, but I just have to comment about her knuckles. I have to disagree about females not willing to destroy their hands in a self defense class. Whether or not she's guilty of the crime - she's been through a lot in prison, suffers from anxiety and has had death threats. She's probably got a of lot of anger in her as well - especially if she is innocent. She could be punching walls at home for all we know.

And as a side note - if you saw my hands you would probably wonder about me! I'm pretty vain and take care of my appearance, but my hands are complete mess from various activities from jewelry making, to accidently cutting myself on steel guitar strings.

 

[minazoe]

Wait. I'm not saying she is innocent or guilty cause I just don't know, but I just have to comment about her knuckles. I have to disagree about females not willing to destroy their hands in a self defense class. Whether or not she's guilty of the crime - she's been through a lot in prison, suffers from anxiety and has had death threats. She's probably got a of lot of anger in her as well - especially if she is innocent. She could be punching walls at home for all we know.

And as a side note - if you saw my hands you would probably wonder about me! I'm pretty vain and take care of my appearance, but my hands are complete mess from various activities from jewelry making, to accidently cutting myself on steel guitar strings.

well yeah, but bashing your knuckles to bloody scabby smithereens? even boxers wrap their hands...unsanitary, and weird in my opinion. why not wear a band-aid?

punching at walls, worries me...even after what she has been through....that is very unusual.

my hands are a mess too! I love all that stuff...but not from a self defense class...sounds like a very rough class....but who knows...maybe the floor matts are rough...but it looks weird to me...just sayin. I totally defended her...but last night I think we got a glimpse of what her captors may have seen.:seeya:

 

[Malkmus]

thank you. so that demonstrates that site contains outright lies (see below)... figures :banghead:

(Guede) was no drifter or serial knife carrier, he had no police record in 2007 (unlike Knox and Sollecito), and no drug dealing or breaking-and-entering has ever been either charged or proved.

There's more misleading info than just the allegations against Amanda and Raf.

The reason Guede gets labeled a "drifter" is because he was caught squatting in a nursery he'd broken into and stolen items from. Most people tend to stay with friends or in a hotel when they leave town. And while that's the only direct tie, it's very likely that he had stayed in the law office that had been broken into and his neighbor's house when she was away. He was also known to stay frequently over at friends' houses for unusually long periods of time instead of his own place according to interviews with those friends. "Drifter" is by no means inappropriate, IMO.

"serial knife carrier". That's a funny one. He was caught with a large knife in the nursery and Cristian Tramontano told police that when Guede broke into his home he threatened him with a knife (possibly a pocketknife, it's been a while). Yes, Raf carried a pocketknife too, but he didn't carry a large kitchen knife with him like Rudy had at the nursery.

"No policer record". Rudy was arrested twice in Milan. Once for the nursery break-in and two days later for drug possession.

"No drug dealing"
Maybe not. But when he was arrested for possession he was caught with a "group of African drug dealers".

But what's important is that Amanda had a noise violation.

http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubb...meredith-preso-il-quarto-uomo-sono-stato.html

 

[Gecko100]

Same here...I can't tell if she just has poor interpersonal skills, is narcissistic, or a complete liar.

I think narcissistic fits the bill. This is a Jesuit educated middle class woman with seemingly no interpersonal skills. She and her possibly narcissistic followers just don't get that their lack of empathy fairly screams in our faces. I don't think they are even aware of how they come across, which is fairly typical.
Contrast that with the dignity of the real victims, it's no contest.
I have read the original report, and have no stomach for these nitpicking details when a meta analysis is called for.
I totally agree with the original verdict from many angles, the 'truth' if there is such an entity stares us in our faces.
There is a narcissistic epidemic out there, and it is mirrored by a narcissistic media. Scary stuff about the power of media influence, with no self-reflexive skills. However this is a metamodern age you have to pick carefully who you might choose to believe 26 esteemed judges or the insane (inane) media. The level of discourse is woeful.
Her book should tell you all you need to know, it's not rocket science
There is way too much tree gazing in this forest. Guess a tree any tree?

 

[Malkmus]

(snipped)this is a metamodern age you have to pick carefully who you might choose to believe 26 esteemed judges or the insane (inane) media. The level of discourse is woeful.

So now it's 26 judges? For a long time it was 19. Why not just say it was 50, as long as we're just throwing numbers out there. It was two judges and 6 jurors that found Amanda and Raf guilty. The same number of people who acquitted them once they realized the emperor had no clothes.

The level of discourse is "indeed woeful".

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Lindy Chamberlain was perceived as being cold and unemotional. Some reports indicate that she was criticized for changing her clothes every day during the trial. The Chamberlain's public image was hurt by the lack of knowledge of their religion, in particular the belief that it was a cult. There were rumors that Azaria was killed in some sort of ritual sacrifice. "There was this attitude of, 'We don't want weirdo religions telling us our bush is dangerous,' " says Deborah Staines, a Melbourne-based writer and academic who co-edited a book about the Chamberlain trial, The Chamberlain Case: Nation, Law, Memory. Since that time a number of dingo attacks have been documented, including at least one that was fatal. Another attack that was similar to the Chamberlain case was stopped when the father was able to drive the dingo away.

The prosecution's case included positive presumptive tests for blood using ortho-tolidine in the car. This test for blood is presumptive, and it is now generally agreed that presumptive blood tests must be followed by confirmatory blood tests before an unequivocal claim that blood is present should be made. The Chamberlains lived in Mt. Isa, and copper dust and other metal ores were in the air. One report on this case indicated that many of the cars on the Chamberlain's street tested positive for blood with ortho-tolidene. Copper is one of the substances that can produce a false positive for blood using ortho-tolidene. The forensic police took the position that substances other than hemoglobin would produce a different color, an absurd statement. Another problem is that inaccessible areas of the car also tested positive. This should have been seen as a positive substrate control but was not.

In addition an antibody-based test for fetal hemoglobin (Hb F) on the front seat of their car. The problems with the test for fetal hemoglobin (Hb F) are subtle but serious. Purified Hb F was not the antigen used to produce antibodies against it, cord blood was; therefore, the antibodies that were initially produced would react with many substances other than Hb F. Supposedly the antibodies that reacted with blood components other than Hb F were removed during the manufacturing process, but there was evidence that indicated that the removal was incomplete. Therefore, a positive reaction would not be a certain indicator of the presence of Hb F. The identity of the material giving the false positive was not entirely certain, but it may have been a chemical from the manufacturing process of the car.

Three additional problems with the antibody test: One, the forensic police did their antibody tests more than 13 months after Azaria's disappearance, and it is at best debatable whether or not hemoglobin would retain its ability to react with an antibody after that period of time. Proteins can lose their three dimensional shape when exposed to heat or other denaturants, and this often causes a loss of reactivity to a particular antibody. Two, substrate controls were not done, making it more difficult to spot false positives. Three, the plates that were used in the Hb F testing were destroyed by the lab before the defense's expert witness, Dr. Barry Boettcher, was able to examine them.

Therefore, I would say that the Chamberlain case resembles the present case in the overinterpretation of a presumptive test for blood, the lack of complete discovery, the use of an unverified forensic technique, and the issues surrounding the demeanor/behavior of the accused.

 

[kwmred]

2 Italian Appeal judges and an entire appeal jury believe her.

Independant Forensic experts believe her.

A large portion of Purugians and Italians believe her (now).

Millions of people around the world believe her.

Many people on this forum believe her (I'm one of them - and I don't even know her).

But be honest - it's not up to a defendant to convince people that they are innocent. It is up to a state/crown/prosecutor to prove they are guilty.

Amanda Knox is not the first American to be falsely imprisoned - and she won't be the last (even the best justice system will always have flaws).

But she is undoubtedly one of the few acquitted Americans of whom it could be said:- if her trial had been held in a US court - it never would have got past the indictment phase.

Well said... thank you!

 

[Gecko100]

Mr Chris, I apologise if you felt I offended you, you are exceptionally good with details, are you an accountant or something? I am not an offensive person, and would hate to be perceived as one, it's not in my nature.
I am an intuitive, so will never see it in the same way. We will have to agree to disagree. I'm not doing details endlessly.
You see trees I see forests.
I've read all the books about Ms Chamberlain and was there at the time and never agreed with the verdict.
It was a hideous travesty of justice, and most Australians were not like that, and Alice Springs and Darwin were pretty remote and unsophisticated at that time as I have said before. Australia was very woman unfriendly and patriarchal before Germaine Greer popped into the scene. I don't think feminism had even been heard of in those places, so expectations of 'womanly' behaviour were breached. It was highly conservative country values and science that was her undoing. Not so in this case.
There is no comparison and science has moved on.
If they had listened to our wonderful indigenous backtrackers at the time, it might have been a different story, and that is not even a science.

Just to be perfectly clear, this is not directed at at anyone personally or otherwise. It's an observation.

Italy is a highly sophisticated and ancient place, and there are pockets of corruption just like any other western country, how can be argued that they took it upon themselves to target two young drug users one from Italy and one from the USA, just because they can?
Don't you think it is costing them millions and millions of dollars and time and energy and they are having world-wide daily attacks and criticism by media on their justice system, science, technology, and credibility? A whole country seriously?
An ancient highly sophisticated country and contributor to philosophy and the arts and science and technology, Christianity need I go on - really?
The centre of creative arts visited daily by millions of people seeking it's myth and glory and food and wine and arts and culture and even ahem... universities?
It's a little on the conspiracy theorists side don't you think?
Why would this ancient civilised spiritual country step out of it's collective ancient wisdom and sophisticated ways to convict a little nobody from the USA?
We are talking highly sophisticated European culture here not a 3rd world country. Spain has just provided the 21st Century with a new movement via Manuel Castells, and they live next door so to speak.
I have read the M report and formed the opinion it is correct. Not much more to say really.
I'm sure the Kerchers and the whole of Italy just wish they would both go away and stop promoting their me, me, me, ness, writing books about their misfortune and milking money over a dead woman's body. It's a wee bit cringeworthy.
They are not that interesting, just over privileged kids with too many drugs and sad backgrounds. I see them as a murderers.
RG is a 'fall' guy, and so was poor Patrick Lumumba who is a relative of the Lumumba family.
He was forced to give up his business because it became a crime scene and had to move to Poland with his wife and family, heartbroken, poor and discredited all over this silly privileged girl and her equally stupid boyfriend.
A Jesuit educated racist middle class girl no question. Three of the victims were multicultural.
They should never have let her go to Italy in the first place she is very irresponsible. She is immature, narcissistic and as dodgy as hell, she is also locked into some dysfunctional behaviour with her mother.
Who in their right mind engages in anonymous sex on public transport in Europe a big risk taker seeking endless excitement perhaps?
Where is Patrick in all the bleating from the media? She should be locked up forever for that ignorant behaviour and damage to that family. It sickens me.
I hope he sues her silly.

Lindy Chamberlain was perceived as being cold and unemotional. Some reports indicate that she was criticized for changing her clothes every day during the trial. The Chamberlain's public image was hurt by the lack of knowledge of their religion, in particular the belief that it was a cult. There were rumors that Azaria was killed in some sort of ritual sacrifice. "There was this attitude of, 'We don't want weirdo religions telling us our bush is dangerous,' " says Deborah Staines, a Melbourne-based writer and academic who co-edited a book about the Chamberlain trial, The Chamberlain Case: Nation, Law, Memory. Since that time a number of dingo attacks have been documented, including at least one that was fatal. Another attack that was similar to the Chamberlain case was stopped when the father was able to drive the dingo away.

The prosecution's case included positive presumptive tests for blood using ortho-tolidine in the car. This test for blood is presumptive, and it is now generally agreed that presumptive blood tests must be followed by confirmatory blood tests before an unequivocal claim that blood is present should be made. The Chamberlains lived in Mt. Isa, and copper dust and other metal ores were in the air. One report on this case indicated that many of the cars on the Chamberlain's street tested positive for blood with ortho-tolidene. Copper is one of the substances that can produce a false positive for blood using ortho-tolidene. The forensic police took the position that substances other than hemoglobin would produce a different color, an absurd statement. Another problem is that inaccessible areas of the car also tested positive. This should have been seen as a positive substrate control but was not.

In addition an antibody-based test for fetal hemoglobin (Hb F) on the front seat of their car. The problems with the test for fetal hemoglobin (Hb F) are subtle but serious. Purified Hb F was not the antigen used to produce antibodies against it, cord blood was; therefore, the antibodies that were initially produced would react with many substances other than Hb F. Supposedly the antibodies that reacted with blood components other than Hb F were removed during the manufacturing process, but there was evidence that indicated that the removal was incomplete. Therefore, a positive reaction would not be a certain indicator of the presence of Hb F. The identity of the material giving the false positive was not entirely certain, but it may have been a chemical from the manufacturing process of the car.

Three additional problems with the antibody test: One, the forensic police did their antibody tests more than 13 months after Azaria's disappearance, and it is at best debatable whether or not hemoglobin would retain its ability to react with an antibody after that period of time. Proteins can lose their three dimensional shape when exposed to heat or other denaturants, and this often causes a loss of reactivity to a particular antibody. Two, substrate controls were not done, making it more difficult to spot false positives. Three, the plates that were used in the Hb F testing were destroyed by the lab before the defense's expert witness, Dr. Barry Boettcher, was able to examine them.

Therefore, I would say that the Chamberlain case resembles the present case in the overinterpretation of a presumptive test for blood, the lack of complete discovery, the use of an unverified forensic technique, and the issues surrounding the demeanor/behavior of the accused.

 

[molly333]

I feel so sorry for Amanda. She's just a sweet American girl who got ground up in a monstrous system that she did not understand. She should have gotten on a plane and left Italy the minute her roommate turned up dead.

Because of what happened to Amanda, I would never revisit Italy or allow any of my loved ones to go there. Italy would do well to just drop it at this point, and hope everyone forgets what they did to this innocent young girl.

IMO

 

[Footwarrior]

Perhaps Gecko could explain why a prosecutor in a modern nation would propose an outlandish conspiracy theory like Mignini did in the Monster of Florence case?

His theory was that the death of a doctor years ago wasn't a suicide, but a murder to cover up what was really going on in the Monster of Florence serial killer case. A cult operating out of a Masonic lodge was using the body parts of the murdered women in Satanic rituals. The members of this cult were all highly respected members of Italian society and the Italian secret police were running the cover up. The body of this doctor had been swapped to hide the truth when the original autopsy had been done.

During his investigation, the prosecutor had about 20 people arrested and charged with involvement in this crime. He also had the body of the doctor exhumed and a DNA test performed. When the results came back showing the right person was in the doctor's grave, he altered his theory and claimed that the body had been swapped twice.

This kind of plot is fun in a movie where you just turn off your brain and go along for the ride. But as a theory for an actual crime, it's has no basis in reality.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Hi Gecko100, I am a biochemist, and for the last three years I have been studying forensics, much of which is applied biochemistry or applied organic chemistry. We will have to agree to disagree about the present case. I would also say that the Italian justice system has some principles that I admire and that I wish we would emulate. However, the present case is not the only time the system seems to have gone off the rails; the Sarah Scazzi murder shows a similar tendency to favor the complex over the simple explanation IMO.