Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#4

[SMK]

This is the Goldilocks theory of guilt. They were either too [fill in the blank] or they were not [fill in the blank] enough. They were never just right.

But in the instance Otto cited, it actually makes sense. First they were too panicked; then not panicked enough. But this does not reflect on the observer, but on the incongruenct nature of their own actions vs their words.

 

[Myvice]

If I came home to a shared flat and found a broken window, I would assume a burglary or possibly an act of vandalism had taken place, but I would not think that my flatmate might be incapacitated or dead. If I heard a phone ringing and no one answering it, I would be concerned to the point of at least considering the possibility such wrongdoing.

If you thought a burglary had occurred would you proceed as if nothing was afoot? Would you leave yourself vulnerable by taking a shower with the door unlocked?

Why would it take a phone ringing to alert you to a burglary and broken window? Does someone have to be found dead before you are concerned?

(Not you personally, just a general question)

 

[dgfred]

This is a very good summary. The only speculation I can think to add is that Guede took the phones so that an incoming call would not cause a noise in her room. The ringing might alert someone in the flat to the fact that Meredith was unable to answer.

Well, we know that a broken window, unlocked front door, blood on mat and in the sink, poo in the toilet, no Meredith hairdryer, no towels, no lamp in her room, and no clothes would not worry AK... so why would a turned off ringer on a phone???

If the rock throwing theory is before this, the attack, etc... he doesn't seem too worried about 'someone' hearing a ring. He would not know who was expected to be home that weekend... but someone else does know :jail: .

 

[SMK]

I also haven't been able to find much on the clothes in the washer/dryer. All I've found is that the washer was running when the cops got there. Does anyone have a direction for me to search in or have knowledge?

On this page of Injustice in Perugia, they list the washer running as misinformation that spread through the media : (see #3)

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html

I myself would like to know if this is the last word on the washer. ETA: It says on TJMK that Filomena testified the washer was still warm.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

If you thought a burglary had occurred would you proceed as if nothing was afoot? Would you leave yourself vulnerable by taking a shower with the door unlocked?

Why would it take a phone ringing to alert you to a burglary and broken window? Does someone have to be found dead before you are concerned?

(Not you personally, just a general question)

I might not take a shower if I had already found the broken window, but I am not sure. A broken window could have happened at any time during the night, whether from a burglary or from vandalism (in other words it would not occur to me that the house was still occupied or that the person might return). The phone ringing would not have suggested a burglary to me, but rather something more serious. In the previous thread I posted a story about someone who was totally clueless about a murder that had taken place in the home in which they were staying, missing what seemed in retrospect like obvious clues. I cannot recall the name of the person at the moment.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Well, we know that a broken window, unlocked front door, blood on mat and in the sink, poo in the toilet, no Meredith hairdryer, no towels, no lamp in her room, and no clothes would not worry AK... so why would a turned off ringer on a phone???.

What do you mean a "turned off ringer?"

 

[otto]

This is the Goldilocks theory of guilt. They were either too [fill in the blank] or they were not [fill in the blank] enough. They were never just right.

As in ... too stressed after voluntarily going to the police station that Knox had no choice but to accuse Mr Lumuba of murder an hour later? ... too stressed to remember a phone call? ... too confused to give a straight answer about when they ate dinner or what they did on the night of the murder?

Goldilocks Theory. Thanks. I've never heard that before in terms of describing convicted murderers that repeatedly concoct crazy excuses.

 

[whoanellie]

But in the instance Otto cited, it actually makes sense. First they were too panicked; then not panicked enough. But this does not reflect on the observer, but on the incongruenct nature of their own actions vs their words.

I think you should at least consider the possibility that it's the observers - and those relaying the observations - and not the observed that are driving the reports of rapidly cycling behavior

 

[otto]

I think you should at least consider the possibility that it's the observers - and those relaying the observations - and not the observed that are driving the reports of rapidly cycling behavior

I'm confused. Knox reported that she was panicked and that they ran around the cottage and then cracked Meredith's door. That's believable. A short time later, when Filomina was panicked and wanted police to break down Meredith's door, Knox said that the locked door was normal - no reason to panic.

What do observers or non-observers have to do with anything. The above is known fact based on statements made.

 

[dgfred]

But in the instance Otto cited, it actually makes sense. First they were too panicked; then not panicked enough. But this does not reflect on the observer, but on the incongruenct nature of their own actions vs their words.

+

Kitchen flood needs mop to get up. No it doesn't, water mostly evaporated and waited like 12 hours anyway.

RS shower OK up until day body found. No it isn't... need to come home for shower. Oh, and a mop.

The front door is unlocked. Well, somebody may have stepped out. SINCE IT CAN ONLY BE MEREDITH... I wonder where she is but not too much. Like... sort of.

I need a shower... but no towel. No I don't... I can boogie on the bloody bathmat.

My ears may have bled. No they didn't... my empty earring hole doesn't hurt a bit nor the scatch on my neck.

I only smoked a joint. No... I smoke a joint every time I am anxious. I am anxious alot.

We were not blitzed out of our skulls. But I've decided to never smoke again.

Bringing my knife to a police investigation about a knife murder is a great idea. Maybe it is not.

Kissing, making faces and laughing is appropriate in a police investigation waiting room just after the body of your 'friend' has been found slaughtered. Maybe it is not.

I pricked Meredith while we were cooking together. No I didn't but I was just thinking out loud.

I was worried to death about my friend being behind that locked door now that I thought about the blood, poo, unlocked door and broken window. Maybe we were in shock tho... because RS couldn't break open the door and I didn't think of trying her phones, calling the police earlier or canceling eating brunch.

I think we ate dinner late that night... like 11:30pm. No, I don't look at clocks so it could have been much earlier... like 3 hours.

We always turn off our phones. Except... we never do.

I didn't call my mom in the early morning hours before I did call her. I don't care what the phone records or my mom says... I didn't or don't remember it.

I don't know that Rudy they arrested. Oops... maybe I did meet him a few times and smoke with him. Oh yeah... he fancies me too :blushing: .

I was put in solitary. Oh yeah... I was accused of assaulting someone and cutting their neck. Maybe other prisoners would not have hurt me... but really maybe they should have just let me out.

There are more. Really, there are.

 

[SMK]

I think you should at least consider the possibility that it's the observers - and those relaying the observations - and not the observed that are driving the reports of rapidly cycling behavior

I of course would consider that, if the reports are not factual. I was going on the assumption (from police reports and roommate accounts ) that this divergence in their behavior is empirically based fact.

 

[dgfred]

What do you mean a "turned off ringer?"

Why would he stand there with a phone ringing?

 

[Footwarrior]

On this page of Injustice in Perugia, they list the washer running as misinformation that spread through the media : (see #3)

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html

I myself would like to know if this is the last word on the washer. ETA: It says on TJMK that Filomena testified the washer was still warm.

Filomena testified that the washer was still damp.

The clothes inside belonged to Meredith, but were not the clothes she had been wearing the night of the murder. The most reasonable explanation is that Meredith started the machine before going out for the evening. The fact that she did not take the clothes out and hang then when she returned is one of many clues that she was attacked shortly after arriving home.

 

[dgfred]

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3422


Here ya go SMK. Notice the condensation and all the towels. IIRC Filomena also said there were 'some' of AK's 'things' in there too. Would condensation still be on the window at the time the pics were made? I'm not sure. Why didn't AK mention the washer contents on her shower adventure?

 

[dgfred]

PMF has several pics of the washer and room in the gallery. In the Crime Scene section on page 3.

 

[SMK]

For one I agree that it adds to the "burglary" and two maybe amanda thought people would question Meredith having her English phone off. Considering it was said she always kept it close and available because her moms poor health.
Maybe they didn't want to touch them in that way and leave them behind.

Good points!
I assume the phones were wiped clean, as I never heard anything about prints of RG, RS or AK being on them.

***Addendum: I did just read that by the time the 2 phones were known to be part of a murder investigation, they had been handled by too many people to be tested for prints.

 

[SMK]

http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3422


Here ya go SMK. Notice the condensation and all the towels. IIRC Filomena also said there were 'some' of AK's 'things' in there too. Would condensation still be on the window at the time the pics were made? I'm not sure. Why didn't AK mention the washer contents on her shower adventure?

Thanks for this! Very interesting questions..... most appreciated.

 

[otto]

Filomena testified that the washer was still damp.

The clothes inside belonged to Meredith, but were not the clothes she had been wearing the night of the murder. The most reasonable explanation is that Meredith started the machine before going out for the evening. The fact that she did not take the clothes out and hang then when she returned is one of many clues that she was attacked shortly after arriving home.

Not exactly. Meredith went for dinner at 4 pm and Knox/Sollecito were still at the cottage. Did Sollecito/Knox report that Meredith put clothes in the laundry before leaving? If not, and if laundry was done, it was done after she returned from dinner at 9 pm ... or perhaps Knox ran the laundry in the morning.

 

[SMK]

PMF has several pics of the washer and room in the gallery. In the Crime Scene section on page 3.

Thanks so much; am looking at them now....:loveyou:

 

[SMK]

Not exactly. Meredith went for dinner at 4 pm and Knox/Sollecito were still at the cottage. Did Sollecito/Knox report that Meredith put clothes in the laundry before leaving? If not, and if laundry was done, it was done after she returned from dinner at 9 pm ... or perhaps Knox ran the laundry in the morning.

Actually, in the email home, paragraph 2, this is what Amanda says (ambiguous statement) :

I am paraphrasing so not a direct quote: see link:

" ... meredith came
out of the shower and grabbed some laundry or put some laundry in, one
or the other and [returned to her bedroom]..."


http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Email_Home