An honest question...

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by SleuthMom, Nov 2, 2007.

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  1. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    I would like to ask an honest question, it is NOT meant to look for contention so please everyone be kind with each other. :)

    Upon reading thread after thread and the different positions each of us have about what happened to Maddie, my perception is that most posters who believe the parents are the ones involved in Maddie's disappearance , even though they feel very strong about it they STILL can analyze, comment and discuss about the possibility of a pedo ring kidnapping Maddie EVEN if most of us do not believe in that possibility but we can still discuss it.

    By the other hand, why those who believe they are innocent cannot even discuss the possibility of the parents being involved? I have the impression (by reading the messages posted here) that is non-existence (in their eyes) that this possibility can be real.
     
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  3. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    I have noticed that also on other boards sleuth. They get so agressive!
     
  4. Rino

    Rino Former Member

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    I agree, too. Other boards are just the same. I sometimes feel as if I should be treading lightly as if I am discussing this with a relative of the McCanns whose defensive posture would be understandable.
     
  5. Trino

    Trino New Member

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    I absolutely agree. There are posters who take very seriously any statement or questioning that isn't their thought process, and several posters appear as if they are almost seeking a verbal confrontation. I, too, tread lightly and have often deleted statements I was about to post to avoid problems.
     
  6. emery

    emery New Member

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    Sleuthmom, I'll take a stab at this. I'm a true fence-sitter. I don't have an opinion about whether the parents are involved. I think it is one possibility among many. I happen to think it is a more likely possibility than an elaborate, well-financed pedophile ring, but I don't rule that possibility out either. My personal favorite -- although even this is just a possibility and not a probability -- is a lone pedophile who lives in the region or was staying at the resort. But, I haven't ruled any of these possible scenarios out.

    All that said, I have a strong aversion to opinions about the parents' possible guilt in public forums (or in the press) when that opinion is based on what I consider to be highly suspect grounds, such as what the McCanns are wearing, their body language, their upper-middle class lifestyle, their lack of tears, etc. I think opinions based on these sorts of observations are pure speculation and say more about the person holding the opinion than about the McCanns.

    I can understand discussion of the McCann's possible guilt based on real evidence -- either direct or circumstantial. Things like timelines of events, physical evidence at the scene, etc. Although, I take even this sort of discussion with a grain of salt because I suspect a lot of this information is incorrect because its coming from unnamed sources whose reliability I can't assess. (This is true generally, btw, not just with regard to discussions of the McCann's guilt. I have the same scepticism when people talk about other possible suspects or evidence that exculpates the McCanns. There is just no reliable information about the actual facts at this stage.) I find most of these discussions premature because we don't really know what the evidence is.

    Now, here is at bottom why I find offensive speculation about the McCann's guilt, particularly purely subjective speculation based on intangible things like word choices, facial expressions, lack of remorse, financial status, appearance, etc.

    They might be innocent. And if they are, by voicing suspicions without access to any real evidence, we would be compounding the horrible harm that has already been inflicted on innocent people. To conclude that the McCanns are guilty based on the scant information available now is unfair to the McCanns, who may be wholly innocent and going through the worst nightmare imaginable.

    I hope this answered your question without being contentious.
     
  7. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    Thanks everyone.

    Emery:

    And that's great, even though you feel strong about how people express their opinions about the Mc Canns, you still able to discuss other possibilities. My point is to those who absolutely REJECT the idea that the parents may be involved, I understand their right to believe a pedo kidnapped her, etc BUT should they absolutely reject the possibility that the parents may be involved? I do not think so.
     
  8. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    Emery,

    Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to explain your feelings regarding this case. It is a breath of fresh air.

    I find it very difficult to discuss this case when the responses to a post consists of one or two sarcastic, insulting, hyper-defensive (new word) sentences that serve no purpose other that to try and make someone feel bad for their point of view.

    I see it everywhere but it is especially evident on the Mirror board. The Mods over there are very hands-off so the flame wars can be pretty spectacular.

    The Mods on our board do a fine job of keeping us on track.
     
  9. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    [​IMG]

    Me too!!!
     
  10. april4sky

    april4sky It is not who is right, but what is right, that is

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    Well said and very fair and balanced. IMO.
    The only thing I would add is that those who think the McCanns guilty and continually attack anything and everything about them and their families are not so open minded when it comes to the complete incompetance and lack of professionalism of the PLE working this case. And their part in the malicious lies and smears fed to the Portuguese press. Lead detectives being themselves "suspect" and removed.
     
  11. Rino

    Rino Former Member

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    Isn't this a double standard?

    Someone is wrong for what you consider an unfair attack on the McCanns but you feel free to crucify the police
     
  12. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    Exactly.
     
  13. april4sky

    april4sky It is not who is right, but what is right, that is

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    No. The PLE have admitted leaking to the press. And lead detectives have been charged with crimes and therefore are "suspects" themselves.
     
  14. daffodil

    daffodil New Member

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    Excellent response emery,couldnt have put it better myself and I was trying to word a reply.I find it hard sometimes to reply with anything other than a 2 or 3 word rebuttal when the McCanns are being called b******s and vile etc as I dont want to get into a row with anyone JMO.
     
  15. emery

    emery New Member

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    I agree. Anyone who marries themselves firmly to one possibility is being closed minded. There just isn't enough evidence to come to a firm conclusion on this point yet. But, I think we ought to be able to test the grounds people cite for an opinion about which scenario is more likely and do it in a respectful, and indeed even productive, way. This is particularly true with more attenuated "evidence."

    For example, if someone posts that the McCanns are wealthy and shouldn't need money from the Find Maddy fund and then proposes that this suggests they are greedy opportunists, someone else ought to be able to test what underpins this opinion. Are the McCann's wealthy? Do they need money? Is it "wrong" for them to draw money from the fund to support themselves? These are all legitimate questions and test assumptions the first poster has made in support of his or her opinion.

    That's just one example. I don't see this sort of exchange as per se vitriolic and keeps everyone on their toes and focusing on what we actually know.

    BTW, I think there are more posters who are absolutely and unshakeably convinced the parents are guilty than the other way round. And some of these people seem to be vigilantly searching for any shred of information that might prop up their view rather than assessing each new piece of information objectively. And some people just seem to view everything the McCanns do and say to be more evidence of their guilt. I think it is these posters who antagonize the "pro-McCann" faction and make them rush to the McCann's defense. I have no dog in this fight and even I sometimes feel an urge to defend the McCanns when I see posters making ridiculous leaps of logic such as: because Kate McCann looks well-groomed in an interview she must not be grieving; therefore, she must be guilty.

    We should all try to keep an open mind and hope that the police investigators are doing the same thing.
     
  16. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    A source for this admission would be helpful, please. I do recall reading that the PJ were very frustrated with the secrecy laws which have made it difficult to defend themselves from some of the attacks. Leaking informaton to the press may be standard practice as a way around the legal muzzle. Just a guess...

    I find it very difficult to believe that the British detectives and police that have been assisting the PJ with this case have not come out and expressed these types of concerns. In fact they all seem to be working quietly and all the "lies and smears" on both sides, are coming from the media in both countries.

    British body-finding expert sent to help Madeleine detectives
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=491124&in_page_id=1770

    "They are believed to have been part of a wider British police team helping with the case."

    Why would the current head of the investigation "consult" with a "suspect"??

    Madeleine McCann police 'consult sacked chief'
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/01/wmaddy101.xml

    I think the PJ/British LE team have information we have no idea about. I think it is unfair to label them "incompetent" without more information on how they have conducted the investigation.
     
  17. emery

    emery New Member

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    This is another example. Test the hypothosis. What are the facts? Have the Portugese police screwed up? What do we actually know about what they have done or not done and why? What effect does this have on the investigation? If they have screwed up, how much of their evidence of the McCann's possible involvement has to be given less weight or thrown out altogether?

    The police are just as legitimate an object of scrutiny as the McCanns. But, approach it with an open mind.
     
  18. Siren

    Siren New Member

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    So much better not to respond than engage in a baited confrontation. I stopped posting because this highly emotionally charged case has brought out the beast on BOTH sides of the fence.

    I read the threads and there is a lot of sarcasm, innuendo and veiled insults. New posters are driven off and there seems to be a culture of thread "ownership."

    Madeleine has touched so many people very deeply. Feelings are raw. Put me on ignore but, please be kind to each other. We're all here to try and find out what happened to this precious child. The truth is what matters, not who was right or wrong.
     
  19. iNTERESTEDWOMAN

    iNTERESTEDWOMAN I'll trade you a bushel of corn for a barrel of oi

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    I very much agree with you. Although I have no idea what happened to the poor little girl, I firmly lean toward the parents...BUT if I come up with a different idea that doesn't involved the parents, I seem to get the boot, (so to speak). So I just post what I feel and don't get my feelings all hurt and bothered by people who I'll never meet in person, who make no difference in my life as a whole.
     
  20. emery

    emery New Member

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    I agree colomom. Portugal's secrecy law has exacerbated the problem by muzzling both the investigators and the McCanns. So, they have both resorted to using leaks from "sources." Very little "official" information about this case is out there. The PR battle that seems to be going on between Portugese law enforcement and the McCanns is an unfortunate step in the wrong direction and both sides seem "guilty" on that point to me.

    I'm not sure why both sides haven't realized that it would better for Madeleine if they stop talking to the press and focus on their own investigations.
     
  21. pooky169

    pooky169 Is it summer yet?????

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    I have been following this case some and to be honest I really have no clue as what to think happened to this lovely young child. All I hope for is her her to be found hopefully she will be found alive and can be reunited with her parents and siblings. But if the unthinkable happens and she is found dead I hope they find the killer and it brings this family some closure because this case is so heart-wrenching and some new leads or something need to be found. But my prayers go out to Maddie if she is still alive I bet she is so scared and wanting her parents. And for her parents for having to endure this tragic ordeal.
     
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