Andrew G. Hodges' ForensicTheory on JB Ramsey Case

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by SMK, May 12, 2010.

  1. SMK

    SMK New Member

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    I apologize if this has been gone over already. I was interested in the JBR case years ago, when it occurred, and some time later when I read Lawrence Schiller's "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town". Thus far, I have only been on WebSleuths Forum in relation to the case of Shantina Smiley. I began to get re-obsessed with the JBR case some months ago when I discovered Hodges' thoughtprints theory, and how he applied it to the Ramsey ransom note, and solved (in his professional opinion) the case. Again, I have been reading all of your JBR threads, but there are so, so many, and I was wondering how many of you had read Hodges' "A Mother Gone Bad" and "Who Will Speak for JonBenet?"http://forensicthoughtprints.com/cases/jonbenet.html And how many, if any, of you, had "bought" his theory? Again, sorry if this is redundant.:waitasec:
     
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  3. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I read that book a while back. Didn't really shed any NEW light on the case, at least for me. He saw the note as Patsy's subconscious confession. I do not share this view, though I think she wrote the note.
     
  4. SMK

    SMK New Member

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    Thanks for your response. I also believe she wrote the note, but found it difficult to see a subconscious confession in it. Much of what he said in his analysis of the note seemed like his own projections onto it. In the end, though, I think his overall theory about how/why this happened makes the most sense of any I have read. I cannot imagine JR covering up for her if she "lost it" over bed wetting. I believe he would have run and called 9-11, despite her protests. Only if he felt he "provoked" the rage, would his guilt be great enough to believe all should be covered. JMO, anyway. I do find it hard to believe that both parents went so many years proclaiming innocence. Possible, but highly improbable. Thanks once more for your response.
     
  5. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    That's the way I look at it.

    I don't know, SMK; there are people who've been in prison 30 years who say they didn't do it.
     
  6. SMK

    SMK New Member

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    Thanks so much for your remarks. Yes, true: People can get into the justification mode, I suppose, and on some level the Ramseys may even have begun to believe that there was an intruder, despite what they knew happened. It may be that all the media attention created a new "world" for them, in which they began to view themselves really as victims. Some believe this is the case also with the McCanns: That they covered up an accident with their child, but then came to view themselves, and feel themselves, victims of a kidnapper.
     
  7. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    I haven't read the book but I agree with some of your thoughts. I believe the Ramseys went into the "justification" phase pretty early on. JR may have been blaming Pats'y parenting skills for JonBenet's continued incontinence. After all, it seems it didn't matter where they were, JB had mishaps everywhere (not just at night in her bed). This would have embarrased John and infuriated Patsy. A lot of people disagree with me on this issue and that's perfectly ok. Just because you or I would not have been very bothered with these issues does not mean they would not have. I'm just a middle income mom who raised 2 children (one of which did wet the bed until she was 14). I did not enjoy all the work that came with that but it did not push me beyond my emotional limits. BUT, I was also not suffering from cancer and having to show a totally composed facade at all times. You can believe that. It was very important for Patsy to be perfect 24/7, this includes her children. She would not and did not tolerate flaws in her children or her life. My dad always taught me to not sweat the small stuff. I dont believe Patsy viewed anything as small stuff. Sorry for the long post. Jist of it is I do believe that John provoked Patsy in many ways!
     
  8. SMK

    SMK New Member

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    I appreciate your feedback, and yes, I would agree that Patsy most likely would have a very low tolerance for flaws of any kind. I believe something occurred which got out of hand, and panic made them cover their tracks in the manner they did. What I find hard to believe is, they got away with it. I don't think a poor couple would have: Their wealth surely started things on the wrong track with the police.
     
  9. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    :clap: :clap:
     
  10. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Imagine for a moment that the Ramseys had lived in a mobile home. They would have been handcuffed, sitting in police cars, while the officers searched the home to find their little girl. Please everyone, dont get upset with me, I have not forgotten that they were rich and JB was kidnapped for their money, or for the pleasure of the pedophile, or to get back at JR. Or maybe all of the above. Who can tell?
     
  11. SMK

    SMK New Member

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    I do agree. Had they been economically of the lower class, and in a mobile home, the suspicion would have been on them immediately, and they would have been separated and taken to police headquarters for grueling questioning. It was their wealth that made the scenario believable to police, and by the time they became suspicious, it was too late...
     
  12. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    Perhaps, but apparently the FBI told LA that the RN was bogus and to 'look for a body'. Despite this she sent JR and FW to search the house alone. In her own words, as soon as she saw JR come up the stairs holding JBR in what she felt was an unusual way (under the arms in front of him), she knew immediately that he was the killer. So they were 'suspicious' even before the body was found. I don't think this is a valid argument, as not too many people who live in mobile homes have their children kidnapped for ransom.
     
  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    More valid than you know. Word came down from the very top (both John Eller and Alex Hunter) that the Ramseys would be given kid-glove treatment. Indeed, several police forces and lawyers have marvelled at the way they were given the soft-touch. So you tell me that a regular joe like myself would be given those considerations. No way.

    This whole idea of a police force out to get them is ridiculous anyway.
     
  14. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    Hmm, you've said this before SD and repeating it doesn't it make it any more believable.
     
  15. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    MurriFlower, would you please clarify which part of SD's statement is not believable?
    Thanks in advance,
    Becky
     
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Then I'll tell you what, MurriFlower: don't take my word for it. Read some of the books. They are invaluable in seeing not only how the various scenarios were considered, but in how the police came to their eventual conclusions.
     
  17. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    Ah yes interesting. I was going to reply to Becky regarding ST writing a book, so you have answered for me. I don't think I would take as evidence the opinions of someone who was part of the investigation and who intending writing a book on the subject. Kind of like you SD, the conclusion was already reached. "Rice already cooked" LOL.
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    You've completely lost me.

    I understand. You're worried you might have doubts.

    Then I suggest you try Perfect Murder, Perfect Town. Or Mark Fuhrman's Murder Business.
     
  19. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    I think ST 'collaborated' on PMPT as well.

    LA's Depo

    12 A. Well, I was working instead of at home, so it was done more in the work context. The other things with leaks is that Schiller - Steve Thomas talked to Schiller and was, Schiller got to be so annoyed by Thomas' frequent contacts that he'd tell him to stop calling him.
    Q. That's what Schiller told you?
    A. No.
    Q. Who told you that?
    A. Mimi - you know.
    Q. Mimi Wesson?
    A. Uh-huh.
    Q. W-E-S-S-O-N?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And who's she?
    A. She's an attorney in Boulder.
    Q. And what was the source of her information?
    A. Larry Schiller.5 Q. So she told you that Schiller told her,Mimi, that Steve Thomas was making repeated contacts with Larry Schiller and which annoyed Larry Schiller?
    A. The contacts were so numerous.
    Q. That it annoyed Larry Schiller?
    A. That it became an annoyance.
    Q. Did Schiller, based on the information that you received, incorporate any of the information Steve Thomas gave him in his book?
    A. Well, from what I was told, there was conversation - yeah. There's a lot of information.
    Q. That Steve Thomas was the source of, in Larry Schiller's book?
    A. I don't know if he's named as a source.
    Q. But based on the information you received, he was the source; is that correct?2
    A. He was the source.

    It was also stated that Schiller employed LHP so he could interview her whenever he wanted.

    So again, not a reliable source.
     
  20. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    It must be tough to do research when you discount everything.
     
  21. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    There sure was a lot of "he said/she said" in those statements. I might be more inclined to believe it if it had been Schiller saying it.
     

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