Any Elisa Updates At All?

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Conductor71

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Good info. I don't think this has been mentioned, but another suspicious LA coroner situation was last year's mysterious arsenic poisoning of coroner Michael Cormier, who was supposedly Anthony Breitbart's coroner. That is a creepy situation that reeks of foul play.

Yes, I read about that one. At least they ruled out that he didn't want to poison himself. I guess the poor guy went to the ER twice and someone from his family called to suggest they check for poison?!? That really seems odd too. There are quite a few conspiracy theories going around on that one, but that sounds like it was someone he knew. From a forensic view they would have to rule it 'suicide' or 'undetermined' because they had no evidence otherwise even if it is clearly a homicide. I think sometime things like life insurance and litigation play a role in coroner's rulings too.
 

findinganatta

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Yes, I read about that one. At least they ruled out that he didn't want to poison himself. I guess the poor guy went to the ER twice and someone from his family called to suggest they check for poison?!? That really seems odd too. There are quite a few conspiracy theories going around on that one, but that sounds like it was someone he knew. From a forensic view they would have to rule it 'suicide' or 'undetermined' because they had no evidence otherwise even if it is clearly a homicide. I think sometime things like life insurance and litigation play a role in coroner's rulings too.
Yeah, I never really could form much of an opinion either way based on the info I read. It's creepy, though... poisonings that take time to kill someone really creep me out, especially when they're family members who are witnessing their actions relatively slowly unfold (slowly compared to a crime of passion, anyway). And it's definitely a politicized situation because of Breitbart, so there is a lot of wild speculation.

But yeah, the LA Coroner facility needs a good documentary or investigative news piece made about all of the weird and devious goings-on. Very strange place, not just for the usual reasons those places are strange.
 

2Hip2BSquare

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[ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9652248]Originally Posted by 2Hip2BSquare[/ame]

I think in the video she was simply wandering around looking for an available bathroom as she did not have a private bath and used communal. She didn't have her glasses on which can explain why she accidentally pressed hold. She could have wanted to ride the elevator straight down every floor to stop and see which communal bathroom was open. Would be much easier and quicker than walking to each floor. she had to go really bad and was anxious bc of this. Unfortunately her pressing all the buttons caused the elevator cab to stall.

When she is outside of the elevator it is as if she is trying to explain to someone on the 14th floor that she's just going around looking for a bathroom. They could have been waiting to use it, too.

really, she just looks jittery like she has to use the restroom and doesn't know if she should just try to wait for the elevator to leave the floor and hope the bathroom becomes unoccupied or if she should just use the stairs to get down to the next floor to find a bathroom.



She could look anxious/panicked/paranoid simply bc she had to go to the bathroom.



Did body language experts take THIS into account for her seeming jittery?



For doing a "pee pee" dance? For standing with her knees together like she's trying to hold her bladder? For grabbing at herself in anxiety of just how bad she had to go?



No body language experts Probably did not. They don't want to associate their talent with dictating mannerisms that indicate digestive/excretive impulses.



She probably ditched the stalled elevator for the stairs again to make it to the bathroom on the next floor down bc she had to GO BAD!



Once she got down to another floor perhaps a "kind patron" offered she could use their private bathroom? It also seems like many of the rooms that have private bathrooms also have fire escape access from the window from all the pictures I have seen.



LE should check the names/ID of all patrons who stayed in rooms with private baths and fire escape access during Jan. 31-Feb.2... IMO



And I think the suspect frequents hotels under a different name and only pays in cash as to avoid detection/identification.



I think he frequents hotels and meets escorts. Maybe he has killed escorts before or after Elisa. Any woman essentially he can get into his hotel room with him.



I believe he picked a room with ladder access (and a private toilet) on purpose.



Elisa, for him, wasn't like his other victims. This was a crime of opportunity. She was needing a bathroom, and he saw her in need and offered her one to use when all communal bathrooms she attempted to utilize were occupied.



He took the opportunity once she was in his room to close the door to the hallway and attack her before or after she used the restroom.



This might explain the loud noise that a patron heard the night Elisa disappeared. Perhaps she was struggling for her life in his bathroom and it was just above the other patrons room.



How long she was alive for could be determined possibly by whether or not only cadaver dogs were utilized to search for her.



If they only had cadaver dogs, she could have still been alive in this creeps room/bathroom for a few days before dying and that's why the dogs didn't get a hit on a dead body at the hotel initially.



He could have left her in his room/bathroom until he was ready to put her in the cistern - whether by fire escape (as was done by the journalist who serial killed prostitutes in the very same hotel) or by the roof access door.



Im beyond frustration with this case still. It won't leave me.
 

2Hip2BSquare

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A member is obtaining a copy of the coroners report soon. If anything seems out of place she/we all will address it. Not sure if we can post it here with TOS so the group of us are trying to organize/figure out how/if the reports can be released from us.

We are wanting to also be respectful to her family so we are definitely taking that to heart as well.

She is a victim. We don't want to victimize her any more or find entertainment in it. We just want to know the truth bc this "accidental" COD is just not adding up to many MANY people and WS members. And if she was murdered and there is a murderer in the loose, LE needs to work harder to catch him before he kills another (probably, sadly, already has...)
 

2Hip2BSquare

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And this makes me think again that Tina found on the beach (now ruled a homicide) has some connection to Elisa.

I know conductor has heard her fair share of this theory I have so I digress for now! :)
 

2Hip2BSquare

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She could have been dosed with GHB. Very difficult or nearly impossible to test for because it only stays in the bloodstream 4-6 hours and 12 hours in urine. GHB scares the Bejesus out of me and it is difficult to test:

GHB & Its Analogs:

"Secret Danger That Shouldn’t Be So Secret

And the Hidden Curse of Addiction"

By Trinka D. Porrata

(Retired Narcotics Detective)

-Rave & Rape Drug Consultant-

"A victim can die from direct effects of the drug, simply forgetting to keep breathing, having seizures that block the airway. A person in a GHB coma left lying on his (or her) back with gum in the mouth could die simply because the gum happened to fall into a position blocking the airway (it has happened). *A person can go into a GHB coma while sitting in the bathtub and simply slide down into the water and drown without even a whimper (it has happened).* A user can die from simply taking a dose, as directed for a sleep aid, and going to bed, face down on a pillow. There is no "safe, responsible" use level.

GHB is commonly listed as a central nervous system (CNS) depressant, but may really belong in a class of its own. It produces symptoms somewhat similar to alcohol intoxication in general, but with a few twists of its own. Extreme cases of intoxication will appear similar to PCP. For example, a young man in Los Angeles, unknowingly dosed with GHB in a Hollywood club, ran through the club, grabbing women's breasts and was thrown out. He ran from the location, tearing off his shirt (common to PCP users), screaming that the world was coming to an end and that he was on fire. Somehow he climbed on top of a Burger King restaurant and held LAPD SWAT officers at bay for two hours, hurling cans of paints and other objects from the rooftop. He was ultimately knocked down with a beanbag round. Four hours after taking the drink, the episode ended suddenly. He had no recall of what he had done"

http://www.trendydrugs.org/ghb_addiction.htm
 

coffee

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Is there any mention of other elevator footage except for the one clip which was released?

Supposedly Elisa was staying on the 4th floor. How did she get up to the 14th floor originally? The stairs? Elevator? Did she go up there alone? How long did she stay? Was this her first visit to a higher floor or had she gone up there frequently before?

I assume the police collected all the video footage of her (and other guests) for the time she was at the Cecil.
 

BlueShoe

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The problem for me with this case is that I can find no fully convincing theory of what exactly happened. If the police report can be obtained, that would really help, even if only by raising additional questions. I'm actually willing to accept the finding of accidental death, but something keeps nagging inside me. In addition, EL's father seemed outraged at the findings. I feel like we owe it to the family to at least obtain what information we can. And even far-fetched speculations sometimes lead somewhere valuable. I just still feel that something is missing here. Maybe we will never know, but I sure would have liked a determination of "undetermined" to reflect that.
 

Conductor71

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The problem for me with this case is that I can find no fully convincing theory of what exactly happened. If the police report can be obtained, that would really help, even if only by raising additional questions. I'm actually willing to accept the finding of accidental death, but something keeps nagging inside me. In addition, EL's father seemed outraged at the findings. I feel like we owe it to the family to at least obtain what information we can. And even far-fetched speculations sometimes lead somewhere valuable. I just still feel that something is missing here. Maybe we will never know, but I sure would have liked a determination of "undetermined" to reflect that.

My feelings exactly. I am not fixated on it being a homicide but no convincing evidence exists that it was an accident either. The way the whole case was handled does not help matters. There was such a sense of urgency, then nothing for nearly six months for one basic toxicology panel? If they had run other tests, they would be included with the autopsy. The date for completion of the autopsy is March 29th and the only police input is dated February 27th. There is absolutely nothing else in that report that seems to warrant another 3 months of no information. So what were they waiting on?
 

fromthesouth

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Remains found in multiple water plants in LA. Maybe bodies being disposed of in water is getting popular? It doesn't appear to be related as the body entered through a manhole which could have been an accident. It will be interesting to find out how long it was submerged and whether they will have difficulty with identification or investigating COD as a result.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/human-remains-found-multiple-water-treatment-plant/nbbms/
 

December

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Here is what I want to know.. what was the state of those lids the night Elisa died?

This does not involve prying into Elisa's personal life. This involves prying into what was the state of the lids the night Elisa died.

Because we really do not know how she wound up drowning in that tank. However, I believe if the lid was off, that would go far in putting together what happened to her.

If the lid was on, then that provides a different type of information.

Whatever else though, Elisa's autopsy proves she was taking her medication. So, she was trying to take care of herself.

By regulation, the lids should have been closed, latched, and LOCKED. We know for absolute certain they were not locked because there were no locks on the lids until well after Elisa died and was discovered.

Not having locks on the lids (and it is a simple enough matter to install locks) endangered everyone in the hotel. It did not cost a lot of money to put locks on those lids. Of all security measures that might have saved Elisa's life, this would be the simplest and cheapest one.

Now, I do not believe the rule is to prevent girls from drowning in the tanks. But, it is to prevent ANY kind of accident or tampering or whatever else from taking place with the tanks containing large amounts of drinking water.

It was well known that people got onto the roof. This can be seen by the amount of graffiti and debris left up there. So, it never occurred to the maintenance manager (he has a fancier title) who has worked there for approximately three decades to buy four padlocks until a girl dies?
 

Nickfalzone

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Did anyone ever get a response back on the police report, or is this something we need to pursue further?
 

December

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I would very much like to know what the police either found out or tried to found out about the lids.
 

walklikeacat

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Did anyone ever get a response back on the police report, or is this something we need to pursue further?
No, I don´t think anyone did get a positive response on that recquest. I so to say left the building for some months ago and the last thing I knew was that Conductor71 was denied getting it. Of course I - and among all others who have been following this case - would like to see that police report, it would solve a lot of questions.
 

walklikeacat

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Here is what I want to know.. what was the state of those lids the night Elisa died?
As far as we all (presume to) know, the lid on that certain tank was unlocked on the night Elisa died.

And her parents have been making a suing against Cecil Hotel Managament Inc. In that suing they mean that the operators had an obligation to make the premises safe for Elisa Lam and all the other guests, that included inspections to seek out hazards in the hotel. Hazards like unlocked lids that could be a danger. I have not been reading anything further about this suing.
 

December

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As far as we all (presume to) know, the lid on that certain tank was unlocked on the night Elisa died.

And her parents have been making a suing against Cecil Hotel Managament Inc. In that suing they mean that the operators had an obligation to make the premises safe for Elisa Lam and all the other guests, that included inspections to seek out hazards in the hotel. Hazards like unlocked lids that could be a danger. I have not been reading anything further about this suing.

Yes, it was definitely unlocked. The tanks at the hotel did not have any locks whatsoever until after Elisa was found in the tank.

The tanks could be latched closed (or just closed), but anyone could open the lids. The police said the lids were difficult to remove, but they weren't impeded by any kind of lock.

However, it is possible the lid wasn't even on the tank at all that night.

But, you are correct. By code, the tanks should have been locked. The hotel was in violation of code for all four tanks. With both police and the fire department there to see the lack of locks, I guess the hotel will be in a lot of trouble.
 

KristiDFW

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I am just not comfortable with the findings. I guess I would be more convinced if the family stated that without meds Elisa would become manic, paranoid, and hallucinate. All this would make better sense.

But they don't, which makes me wonder why would anyone in their right mind climb into such a tight hole into a tank of water in the middle of the night?? I can't buy suicide either, heck she was on a roof of a pretty historical building. What would be more dramatic than to jump? But that is JMO.
 

Arkady

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I am just not comfortable with the findings. I guess I would be more convinced if the family stated that without meds Elisa would become manic, paranoid, and hallucinate. All this would make better sense.

But they don't, which makes me wonder why would anyone in their right mind climb into such a tight hole into a tank of water in the middle of the night?? I can't buy suicide either, heck she was on a roof of a pretty historical building. What would be more dramatic than to jump? But that is JMO.

I agree. I still feel there's way more to this story than we know.
 

Syttende

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This case interests me because it reminds me of an old friend, who went from "seemingly normal" to "psychotic" in the relatively short time that I was close friends with her. Looking at Elisa's tumblr and internet presence, she reminds me a lot of my friend. Especially after watching the elevator video. From my perspective, it appears that Elisa is hallucinating, talking to herself, seeing things that aren't real, and looks very scared, or at least confused.

The hints that my friend was becoming psychotic were subtle, mostly just involving weird beliefs/statements (that were only really weird in retrospect), seeming dissociated or depressed, etc. Next thing I knew she was taking off her clothes in public and saying she controlled the universe. She eventually got committed because she pulled a fire alarm and crawled, naked, into a stranger's car. Yes, it makes absolutely no sense, much like Elisa ending up on the roof of the Cecil and somehow getting inside the water tank.

I don't mean to derail the thread -- but from my research and personal experience, you just cannot trust people in the midst of a psychotic episode to make decisions that are anywhere close to sensible. Not only that, but people who appear sane can become psychotic in the blink of an eye. They will do things that you thought were impossible, or that no human would do. I would imagine that Elisa was scared, or maybe even just curious, and got into the water tank without an inkling of what it actually was or the danger it presented to her.

My friend is lucky that she did not die because many of the things she did brought her dang close. She would eat random pills off the ground and get into complete strangers' cars. Her mindset reverted to that of a naive child who didn't know left from right, when she had been very intelligent before.

Schizophrenia or psychosis is such a tragic thing. When a person is psychotic, they become completely different from who they once were. It's terrifying to see, especially since nothing you say gets through to the person at all, as they are off in their own world. Rest in peace, Elisa. :(

All MOO.
 
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