Apology To The Ramseys?

[sariebell]

Nedthan, you have summed up my sentiments exactly. I am waiting for all this to wash.

 

[Britt]

How about if the RAMSEYS apologize to all of the innocent people they pointed the finger at (to get the heat off of themselves)?

:clap: Right on, Wenchie.

 

[wenchie]

Wouldn't it be something if this was a just a huge psychology experiment to show how much we are influenced by the media?

Take a bland, slightly effeminate guy with a strange history and a perverse interest in little girls (but who they've thus far NOT come up with any history of him physically harming anyone).

Put him in front of thousands of flashbulbs and get him to make some nonsensical confessions in a deadpan voice.

Then - sit back and see how many people see "pure evil" in his eyes, and see how many scream that he should "not be allowed to walk the streets".


I see people who look as strange or stranger than Karr everytime I go to the local Walmart.

 

[BBB167893]

Ned, excellent!

"And if I hear one more time from Niki woman on Court TV that all of her colleagues should join her in extending an apology to the Ramsey's I think I will hurl."

I can barely keep lunch down now.

No apologies, but maybe a concession, IF it turns out.

You know, Pat Browne was on Glenn Beck on Thursday and she said he has no reason to feel guilty and that if this guy turns out ot be a fake, she's right back to the family!

"2.) If this guy is just out for attention, then he got what he wanted. But what about the evidence that still points towards the Ramsey's???? Patsy's fibers on the garrote? John's fibers on the underpants of JonBenet? Burke's statement that JonBenet was awake and walked in the home carrying presents contracting the parents statements? Patsy not being excluded as the author of that ransom note. The knowledge of John's bonus that year. The pineapple left out with only Patsy and Burke's prints on the bowl which was the last substance found in Jon Benet's small intestine? Burke's knife used to cut the rope? The flashlight that just happened to be the exact same one John Andrew bought for the family which mysteriously disappeared. The list goes on and on."

And on...

"As for Pam Paugh. God SHUT UP ALREADY. What a fricken embarrassment she is to the family. Talk about wanting to be the center of attention. You didn't love JonBenet, "I" loved JonBenet. I bet John Ramsey is wanting her to shut the ## up!"

No kidding! They had to shut her up once before!

"This has NOTHING to do with hatred."

Right! I have no hate for John or Patsy, but at the same time, I owe them nothing.

"This has to do with following the evidence in this case and paying CLOSE attention to the father of this VICTIM. Here many of you are jumping to conclusions regarding John Mark Karr when there is NO concrete evidence yet that links him to this crime. I just want to remind everyone of the evidence that points to the Ramsey's and remind you all that they are STILL under the umbrella of suspicion. Once again we have ODD comments on behalf of John Ramsey. It speaks VOLUMES when he wants to be LEFT ALONE when after 10 years a man comes forward claiming he murdered his daughter."

Yeah, I'd be first on line to hang him!

"Can you imagine if Karr's defense attorneys got hold of her or, god forbid, got her on the witness stand in a criminal trial?"

It's too early in the day to picture a bloodbath!

 

[Toltec]

I'm not jumping to any conclusions about Karr, but I do think each individual should take responsibility for his own actions. We should acknowledge our mistakes, apologize, then move on.

The pot calling the kettle black. You have not posted here in quite awhile guppy....and your posts at the swamp naming innocent people of the murder is hypocritical.

 

[debann]

This has NOTHING to do with hatred. This has to do with following the evidence in this case and paying CLOSE attention to the father of this VICTIM. Here many of you are jumping to conclusions regarding John Mark Karr when there is NO concrete evidence yet that links him to this crime. I just want to remind everyone of the evidence that points to the Ramsey’s and remind you all that they are STILL under the umbrella of suspicion. Once again we have ODD comments on behalf of John Ramsey. It speaks VOLUMES when he wants to be LEFT ALONE when after 10 years a man comes forward claiming he murdered his daughter.

Keep watching…..

I have also silently read the different theories, comments, and news stories concerning the Ramseys over the years. And people have been cruel with regard to the Ramseys, more so than any comments I have read about John Mark Karr.

I don't know if John Mark Karr killed JonBenet. I don't know if John Ramsey did. I am not convinced of John Ramsey's guilt and so far, neither are the authorities in Boulder - or else he would be in custody.

The authorities do have a suspicion concerning Karr. There is a sealed affidavit and arrest warrant. None of us knows the reason for the warrant, but I bet it's more than the confession Karr gave when questioned by the press.

Karr has been emailing Tracy for four years. He has been under investigation since May 2006 when Tracy notified the authorities of his correspondence with Karr. The authorities asked Patsy if she would agree to meet with Karr, however, she died before that could be arranged.

Karr has given bits and pieces of his "involvement" in JonBenet's death to several people. During one such "confession" in 2001 the FBI was involved.

There's more to this than we know. Is Karr the guy? I don't know. But if he is, yes, I do think people owe John and Patsy an apology.

 

[BBB167893]

Uh oh.

 

[RiverRat]

I'm not jumping to any conclusions about Karr, but I do think each individual should take responsibility for his own actions. We should acknowledge our mistakes, apologize, then move on.

Oh we should, should we?! :woohoo: You go first! :innocent:

 

[southcitymom]

Not true. He doesn't have the right to be on the streets like you and I. This guy was fired from 2 teaching jobs for inappropriate behavior.

The quote at the bottom of your post - the one about Lin Wood saying he's made more money from the Ramsey case, etc....when you read that quote in context, Lin Wood's not bragging at all. He's making a point to opposing council in a civil suit. The quote is taken out of context to make Wood look bad.

I don't have strong feelings regarding Wood one way or the other. But the quote is taken out of contect and is misleading. Just my 2 cents.

 

[packerdog]

Hi Ned, nice to see you again. Hang around we always need another voice of reason here.

 

[guppy]

Oh we should, should we?! :woohoo: You go first! :innocent:

Ok, my apologies to Toltec. I should have posted that Toltec's post was completly unfounded and based on nothing instead of directing it at him or her personally. I shouldn't do that, and usually try not to.

 

[Jayelles]

Hey guys - we need to take a step back here. The thing I have always loved about Websleuths is the MIX of posters - everyone brings a different opinion to the table.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Ramseys' behaviour resulted in a lot of negative reactions. YES, the media made a meal of it, but it is a FACT that most child homicides are committed by a member of the family and that the Ramseys needed to be eliminated first. It is also a sad and incomprehensible FACT that the Ramseys didn't participate in police interviews for 4 months and that during that 4 months, they imposed completely unacceptable condition on any interviews they were willing to give. That is something that most people simply cannot understand.

I hope this is the guy and that the case can be brought to a close - but people will always remember that the Ramseys refused formal interviews for 4 months and that during that time, the case grew cold. People will always wonder whether things could have turned out differently if they had co-operated fully at the start. Maybe the killer would have been apprehended sooner.

Another chilling thought - has he had more victims during the past ten years? If so - how will THOSE parents feel about the Ramseys and their lack of co-operation?

 

[Jayelles]

And I'd like to add that my opinions are based upon FACT and not speculation. We cannot change history

 

[BBB167893]

"The quote at the bottom of your post - the one about Lin Wood saying he's made more money from the Ramsey case, etc....when you read that quote in context, Lin Wood's not bragging at all. He's making a point to opposing council in a civil suit. The quote is taken out of context to make Wood look bad."

He doesn't need us to look bad! It's called barratry, and it's a disbarring offense!

 

[Amraann]

Being fired from two jobs for inappropriate behavior does NOT take away his right to be on the streets.

If it did, he would have been put in prison for it back then.

We can't just decide that because WE don't like a person's looks or actions, that they have no right to "walk the streets".

NO but possesing child *advertiser censored* while teaching should take his rights away to be on the streets.

As for the Ramsey's ..

They have had investigators (Lou Smit for one and Ollie Gray) Looking at evidence for teon years.
So just because they don't jump onto tv everytime thier daughtrs name is mentioned means little. Not faulting parents who do but it is indicative of different personalities not guilt neccesarily.

It is false that the Ramsey's refused to cooperate with the police.
The police had access to them for the first critical couple of days then hired an attorney on the advice of a friend.
There is absolutely nothing wrong or indicitive of guilt in doing that when the police, whom I may add already botched up the investigation and were leaking statements to the media indicating they thought it was the Parents.
It was very clear that they were looking NOWHERE else. What where they suppose to do?
Cooperate and wind up in prison for year like Jaqualyn Dowolby's step father who was innocent but could not afford an attorney to advise him?

The bottom line and reality is that many who have spent years believing the R's are guilty ignore any evidence that dispells that and will continue to do so.
If Karr's DNA matches it will be some huge Ramsey conspiracy. Lies an misinformation about this case have gone on for ten years ... that isn't going to change now. The media went right back to it the day this all hit the news with their "unanmed sources".
Just because the DA and investigators have not stated what evidence they have doesn't mean the ydon't have it..
As a matter of fact why would they give any defense attorney such an early lead on the evidense they have?

 

[BBB167893]

"They have had investigators (Lou Smit for one and Ollie Gray) Looking at evidence for teon years"

Amraan, have you read John Ramsey's deposition, specifically the part where he says he hired the investigators to keep him out of prison, not follow leads? You should.

 

[otto]

Sure, I will apologize for my distrust of them but it will always be with the caveat that they brought it on themselves by the way they acted.

I can understand that they were worried that the police would crucify them. However, that's reality and that is the police you have to deal with. Flying off the same day to Atlanta because you don't like the way you were treated is not acceptable in my opinion. That doesn't take the focus off you and put it onto other possible suspects, it makes everyone focus that much more on you.

So if Karr really did it or rolls over on the person who does, then yes the Ramseys are owed an apology by some. But had they done the right things day 1, they would have faded into history as a victim family like John Walsh, Mark Klass, and Mr. Lunsford.

Cal

There was a special on A&E last night about the case and I watched parts of it. Every time I tuned in I could see that the debates here have been asnwered, but people don't want to believe what they hear. The Ramsays were not questioned the day of the murder because the police did not follow proper procedure. The Ramsays soon learned that they were the focus of the investigation and were advised to hire lawyers, but today that is used against them. On the advice of their lawyers, they agreed to meet with the police at their lawyers office with a PI and doctor (Patsy was sick, after all). This is not unusual given the circumstances, but in this case the police refused to cooperate. Again the Ramsays were criticized. I understand that eventually there were 3 teams investigating the murder and none of them were talking to each other, but the DA was talking to the Globe rag magazine. The Ramsays were not given updates on the investigation of their own child's murder. The police tried to withhold their child's burial as leverage in their investigation. There are so many irregularities in the investigation that would make any innocent person run to a lawyer, yet the family is constantly criticized.

I think it's horrendous that John Ramsay is criticized for not taking up the cause of murdered children, or that he just wants to be left alone by the media. When my father died of cancer, my mom took up the cause but I enrolled at university and buried myself in my work - taking 7 courses per semester to make sure that I was too busy to think. It's a well known fact that some people deal with stress by burying themselves in their work. It doesn't matter what John Ramsay does now or what he and his wife did 10 years ago, some people are going to criticize it all. If John is not an activist, leave him alone. I'm not an activist and if people were in my face complaining that I wasn't taking up the cause of all people that died of cancer, I would probably move away as well. Is Natalee Holloway's father an activist? Absolutely not. No one says a word about it because he has a job and other children to raise. John Ramsay is in the very same situation so why not afford him the same respect we extend to other men in the same situation. The double standard makes the criticism of John Ramsay very transparent.

 

[wenchie]

NO but possesing child *advertiser censored* while teaching should take his rights away to be on the streets.

As for the Ramsey's ..

They have had investigators (Lou Smit for one and Ollie Gray) Looking at evidence for teon years.
So just because they don't jump onto tv everytime thier daughtrs name is mentioned means little. Not faulting parents who do but it is indicative of different personalities not guilt neccesarily.

It is false that the Ramsey's refused to cooperate with the police.
The police had access to them for the first critical couple of days then hired an attorney on the advice of a friend.
There is absolutely nothing wrong or indicitive of guilt in doing that when the police, whom I may add already botched up the investigation and were leaking statements to the media indicating they thought it was the Parents.
It was very clear that they were looking NOWHERE else. What where they suppose to do?
Cooperate and wind up in prison for year like Jaqualyn Dowolby's step father who was innocent but could not afford an attorney to advise him?

The bottom line and reality is that many who have spent years believing the R's are guilty ignore any evidence that dispells that and will continue to do so.
If Karr's DNA matches it will be some huge Ramsey conspiracy. Lies an misinformation about this case have gone on for ten years ... that isn't going to change now. The media went right back to it the day this all hit the news with their "unanmed sources".
Just because the DA and investigators have not stated what evidence they have doesn't mean the ydon't have it..
As a matter of fact why would they give any defense attorney such an early lead on the evidense they have?

If you think that he should not be permitted to have his freedom, then you should be working to change the laws. We can't just single one person out because we don't like his looks, and send them to prison for the rest of their lives while others who have done the same thing get sentenced to a few months, or probation.

I have read in several places that the Ramseys lawyered up the VERY NIGHT of the 26th, and refused to talk to LE.

You may call that "not indicative of guilt", but most people would call that plain old uncooperative, and indicative of not wanting to help in the investigation of their daughter's murder.

 

[kwatson696]

There was a special on A&E last night about the case and I watched parts of it. Every time I tuned in I could see that the debates here have been asnwered, but people don't want to believe what they hear. The Ramsays were not questioned the day of the murder because the police did not follow proper procedure. The Ramsays soon learned that they were the focus of the investigation and were advised to hire lawyers, but today that is used against them. On the advice of their lawyers, they agreed to meet with the police at their lawyers office with a PI and doctor (Patsy was sick, after all). This is not unusual given the circumstances, but in this case the police refused to cooperate. Again the Ramsays were criticized. I understand that eventually there were 3 teams investigating the murder and none of them were talking to each other, but the DA was talking to the Globe rag magazine. The Ramsays were not given updates on the investigation of their own child's murder. The police tried to withhold their child's burial as leverage in their investigation. There are so many irregularities in the investigation that would make any innocent person run to a lawyer, yet the family is constantly criticized.

I think it's horrendous that John Ramsay is criticized for not taking up the cause of murdered children, or that he just wants to be left alone by the media. When my father died of cancer, my mom took up the cause but I enrolled at university and buried myself in my work - taking 7 courses per semester to make sure that I was too busy to think. It's a well known fact that some people deal with stress by burying themselves in their work. It doesn't matter what John Ramsay does now or what he and his wife did 10 years ago, some people are going to criticize it all. If John is not an activist, leave him alone. I'm not an activist and if people were in my face complaining that I wasn't taking up the cause of all people that died of cancer, I would probably move away as well. Is Natalee Holloway's father an activist? Absolutely not. No one says a word about it because he has a job and other children to raise. John Ramsay is in the very same situation so why not afford him the same respect we extend to other men in the same situation. The double standard makes the criticism of John Ramsay very transparent.

Great Post.Otto..:woohoo:

 

[Jayelles]

The Ramseys were crucial witnesses in the case - whether they were also suspects or not. I have no problem with them hiring lawyers - I would have done the same. What I think it unforgiveable is NOT to assist the police with their enquiries. There was nothing stopping them from taking their lawyers into the interview room with them.

The police needed information that only the Ramseys could give them.

One of the conditions they laid down was that they would only answer questions for 2 hours. What was that about?

Another condition was that they wouldn't be interviewed at the police station - what did it matter where they were interviewed?

Most of feel that we'd do anything it took to find the killer of our child. Hell, I'd even go to jail as a wrongly convicted person before I'd have it said that I didn't co-operate with the people who were trying to find my child's killer.

What's done is done and we are where we are.