Identified! AR - Fort Smith, Male UP2843, entangled in tree in Poteau River, Nov'01 - John Camp

[webrocket]

I only now took a look at the pictures. not everyday they depict the mummified or leatherized remains.

that almost looks like rawhide treats they make for dogs. no wonder why we don't often see those images.

 

[Veidt]

I came in via the thread in general talk and here's my :twocents:.

To me it is not suspicious that he would have his wedding band on his pocket... as others have said, if he was having an affair and trying to hide that he was married the tattoo would have raised more questions. Even though it is possible it just makes me think he may have put it in his pocket for safekeeping. I've known a couple of men who have lost their rings while outdoors even doing simple tasks on the yard. Wedding bands are so prone to being lost, slipping off fingers, being damaged, etc. It could also indicate that he had gained or lost weight recently and it did not fit any longer.

I wonder how they found out that the keys belonged to a hotel. :waitasec: Is it very common for hotels to let people take their keys when they're going out? Most of the ones I've stayed at, you need to drop your keys off at the reception before heading out. Then you return and claim them. I don't know about this area but I wonder if this indicates a specific kind of hotel. Either way the fact that he had the keys on him to me indicates that most likely he was still checked in at a hotel when he went missing. The most logical step would be to get in touch with all hotels within a day or two driving distance and ask if any guests disappeared mysteriously or their keys did. The initials might help narrow it down as well as the room number tag if there is one.

I hate to sound like a killjoy but I wanted to point out that maybe his last name starts with C but his first name may have a different initial... someone mentioned that the tattoo looks like it was two different designs in one made by different people or at different times, maybe it's a family type tattoo with the name of his wife and initial of his children.

Finally the straw and the knife do not strike me as odd. If he was hiking it seems logical he would have a knife as they are useful in outdoors settings. The straw could have been put in his pocket distractedly, say he was in a cafe or restaurant and just put it there without thinking. Not to mention that some hiking fans sometimes use random everyday items for "survival" stuff.

 

[TheHunter]

Hi everyone, I'm new here so please correct me if I am doing something wrong or posting on the wrong place. I came across this John Doe case and it's really stuck with me since I read about it. Here is a link to the case- https://identifyus.org/en/cases/2843

The remains were found entangled in tree about the Poteau River in Fort Smith, Arkansas. However, the Poteau only runs very briefly in Arkansas, and is mostly in Oklahoma. He was found November 2001, remains are described as "mummified" yet they've posted no range of years that he could have been missing. If a body is mummified isn't it possible it could have been there longer than 11 months? Curiously, his hands and left foot are missing. What has really peaked my interest is the contents of his pockets-

" A hotel key with orange tag that reads (A04), 1 small quartz wristwatch, a key ring with 2 attached keys, 1 yelow metal wedding band, 1 straw, 1 pocket knife, 1 nail clipper, 1 cigarette lighter, 21 quarters, 3 dimes, 2 nickels, 2 pennies, and 1 $1 bill."

The fact that he has a wedding band of course is says he's married, but he also has a tattoo that reads "Teresa" with a heart under with a band through that that says "one love" and what appears to be initials on the heart- J.C. T.C. It seems possible that T.C. is Teresa C. and his initials are J.C. The pocket full of quarters paired with the hotel key suggests laundry. But he also has a knife in his pocket (didn't try to defend himself if it was a homicide). The nail clippers would seem to rule out that he was adventuring on the river, though his clothes would have been suitable for such an activity, and the straw seems to rule out adventuring too. Robbery doesn't seem to be a motive as he still has his wedding ring and watch.

--body moved from somewhere else?(mummified)--It more than likely was stored somewhere dry-- like you said no sign of struggle--some body parts missing--possibly removed to prevent identification(he might have had scars or more tattoos)--also robbery doesnt appear to be a motive -might have known his attacker--the hotel key looks like a key from an older hotel?--or a old hotel key(most hotels have switched to the electronic card system)--It has a letter and number--possible storage locker key?
Quarters in pocket---was he on his way to or from his hotel room(to go to a vending machine or get food?)--also possible hotel key was found in his shorts pocket-seems he was just leaving the room for a short time/planned to return. -I would check missing persons who have tattoos/scars on hands and left foot in addition to the heart tattoo--

 

[killarney rose]

My take is he was staying in that hotel- it's a darn shame that wasn't followed up on at the time he was found. There might have been a record of a guest that disappeared.

I think he was living there- probably working , thus the quarters to do laundry with. Perhaps he was doing his laundry and while he was waiting walked to the river. The river was up....for some reason he went in, or fell in.warm weather, weekend....would explain how he was dressed. Maybe it was even hot and he decided on a swim. A river is dangerous to swim in-especially if one is not familiar with it and it is up. Theresa was dead, or they were split up would explain why there was no MP report...or maybe there is and the body and report haven't been connected. This one should be solvable!

I would like to know the proximity of the hotel, laundromats in the area and the river...just to see how feasible my theory is...it would be a starting point.

 

[Veidt]

I agree, he was probably staying in the hotel at the time. This would have been the best way to follow through IMO. I'm sure most hotels would have a record and would remember if someone disappeared and took their keys with them.

That he was gone for a short period of time could explain why he took the keys. Or maybe he was planning on being out until late so the hotel staff let him keep his keys if there was not going to be anyone on duty.

I don't think he just went for a swim if he was wearing his jeans and had a shoe on him. Most likely if he wasn't moved to that location he was probably hiking in the woods. Maybe the fact that the river flowed very briefly through that region was a point of interest.

All IMO of course.

 

[MFFJM2]

Okay a few points, in no particular order. The wedding band may not have been his, since his hands were missing there's no way to tell. Many low-cost hotels have or had orange plastic holders for their keys. If his hands were removed this should be obvious in the autopsy, and could provide evidence of a homicide, if a cause of death cannot be determined due to the mumification of the remains. The hands of murder victims are often removed by the perpetrator to prevent identification through finger print analysis. The pocket knife may have been too small to use as a weapon.

That the body was found in the low hanging limbs of a tree is a little unusual. A flooding river can sometimes leave objects in low hanging branches that were in the water due to the level of the river. If a flooding river is unlikely, then perhaps a nearby bridge or overpass from whcih the body was thrown. If that is unlilkely then we have a real problem. Murderers are not known to hide their victims in the branches of trees, because they are too easily noticed.

The mumification is interesting. Mummification can happen naturally in environments where there is a little moisture and a low amount of bacteria or high pressure (arid desert, high mountains, arctic), otherwise they will decompose. For example the bog bodies of Northern Europe found in peat bogs are unlike most ancient human remains, because they have retained their skin and internal organs due to the unusual conditions of the surrounding area. These conditions include highly acidic water, low temperature, and a lack of oxygen, combining to preserve but severely tan their skin. Despite the fact that their skin is preserved, their bones are generally not, as the acid in the peat dissolves the calcium phosphate of bone.

In a warm, air-tight, enclosed space with very little or no humidity a body will mummify in 30 to 45 days, depending on the size and state of the body.

The results of an autopsy will provide many answers. The tattoo may be your best bet at obtaining an ID, unless the DNA is in the database.

 

[raindrops300]

The ring and other things on his keychain makes sense, but where did he have the 21 quarters and other change if he had nothing in his cut-off jeans pockets?

 

[webrocket]

maybe the coins were to make phone calls. hard pressed to find a payphone today (notwithstanding the song by Maroon 5).

 

[carbuff]

I agree, he was probably staying in the hotel at the time. This would have been the best way to follow through IMO. I'm sure most hotels would have a record and would remember if someone disappeared and took their keys with them.

That he was gone for a short period of time could explain why he took the keys. Or maybe he was planning on being out until late so the hotel staff let him keep his keys if there was not going to be anyone on duty.

I don't think he just went for a swim if he was wearing his jeans and had a shoe on him. Most likely if he wasn't moved to that location he was probably hiking in the woods. Maybe the fact that the river flowed very briefly through that region was a point of interest.

All IMO of course.

In small motels of the kind where temporary workers, etc. are prone to stay, you don't leave your keys, usually.

There are lots of ways to fall into rivers -- working by the water, walking by the water, etc. Could have washed in from upstream, too. The location where they found the body makes it pretty unlikely that it was moved.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

:bump:

 

[Treelights]

It is possible that those 21 quarters could have been the result of gambling at the casinos, or a future trip to the casinos. Gambling/gaming in Tulsa and the surrounding areas was popular during that time period.(and probably still is.) Coins probably would have been used more so than the tickets you get today, in my opinion.
Also, maybe knowing the dates on the coins could tell perhaps when this UID died....but not necessarily, but it might show that he could have had the latest coin available at the time....so if he had a 2001 coin, then that would narrow down the timeline.

 

[Treelights]

Also, the 21 quarters that were with this UID, if one, some or all of the quarters were Statehood Quarters, then that narrows down the time as well.
I wish we had photos of the coins.
The release dates to these State quarters from the mint are as follows:
Delaware Jan.4, 1999, Pennsylvania March 8, 1999, NewJersey May 17, 1999
Georgia July 19, 1999 Connecticut October 12, 1999
Massachusetts January 3, 2000 Maryland March 13, 2000 South Carolina May 22, 2000
New Hampshire August 7, 2000 Virginia October 16, 2000
New York January 2, 2001 North Carolina March 12, 2001
Rhode Island May 21, 2001 Kentucky October 15, 2001

These coins were minted in Philadelphia and Denver.

http://www.us.mint.gov
http://www.us.mint.gov.downloads/mint_programs/50sqReport.pdf

 

[hannah1988]

I'm with you, Treelights. I immediately thought that he may have been gambling. It just seems strange to me that he would carry that many laundry quarters with him. IMO it seems more likely that he somehow got into the water after a night of gambling.

 

[killarney rose]

Perhaps he won a lot of money and was robbed and thrown in the river.

 

[hannah1988]

Yes. He could have been robbed, or maybe he lost a lot of money and became suicidal.

 

[Treelights]

The Poteau River arises in the Ouachita Mountains of western Arkansas, flows westward into Oklahoma, then flows north to join the Arkansas River at Fort Smith.

From the website
www.anglerweb.com

 

[Treelights]

There is a sport called Noodling, where a person tries to catch flathead catfish with their hands. These catfish are found in murky waters near trees/roots in holes. These catfish can be 30 pounds and it is not uncommon for noodlers to have missing fingers and toes. There is a documentary that came out in 2001 called Okie Noodling.
Noodling was legal (limitations though) in 11 states, which included Oklahoma.
This sport has been passed down through the generations though.
Perhaps this UID was noodling? My opinion only, one of many opinions of mine for this UID.

 

[hannah1988]

Neat idea about noodling! I wonder what ppl typically wear when they do that. If it were me, I'd wear big ole waterproof boots and a jumpsuit.

 

[OkieGranny]

I'm from that side of Oklahoma originally so I might as well put in my two cents.

Yes, people do wear tennis shoes to go swimming in lakes and rivers around there. The waters are generally murky and you can't see where you're stepping, so shoes help protect your feet from nasty cuts due to broken glass, rusty metal, and sharp rocks lurking out of sight under the water. It only takes once or twice having your feet sliced to ribbons to learn that lesson. Not socks, though, so it's kind of weird that he was wearing socks.

Anyone else notice there was a watch? Nothing stated about it being waterproof. Might be an indicator of whether he actually intended to go in the river. Maybe he just slipped and fell in.

Another possibility with the initials: if his name was Charles Joseph Clark, for example, he might go by Joe and use the initials J.C. instead of C.C. Just something else to check out.

 

[astridxx]

When I saw he had a straw on him I immediately thought "cocaine abuser."


Also, has anyone looked into where you can purchase "Blue Zone" clothing? I did a quick google search and the most plausible place would be from the University of Kentucky... they have a "blue zone" label (or at least their team store is called "blue zone").

A search on ebay for Blue Zone turned up numerous pairs of denim jeans, all priced from $10-20. Looks like they are made in California. Another google search turned up that Blue Zone is a somewhat vintage label (perhaps he picked them up from a Salvation Army?) A listing on Craigslist has the purchase year at 1984.