AR - Thomas Naramore, 18 mos, dies in hot car, Hot Springs, 24 July 2015

human

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I'd be very interested in the number of hot car deaths before and after this legislation. Not debating the wisdom or safety of rear car seats - just curious.

The reason car seats are in the back is because the grandchild of a doctor got decapitated when the mother's car hit something at 5 mph. The air bag went off
 

meanmaryjean

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The reason car seats are in the back is because the grandchild of a doctor got decapitated when the mother's car hit something at 5 mph. The air bag went off

Again- I understand all of the reasons for rear-seat safety seats. They are valid reasons - no debate there. I was just wondering about hot car deaths before and after.
 

popsicle

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I meant to post this yesterday.


Garland County Prosecuting Terri Harris tells me she's completing paperwork asking for a special prosecutor to be appointed to investigate the death last week of the child of Circuit Judge Wade Naramore, who handles juvenile cases in Garland County.

A defense lawyer sent me a quick note with the statutes that could be applicable. He notes that there's a great deal of prosecutorial discretion involved, such as in what constitutes "reckless" behavior. Some extracts from the statutes:
http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...prosecutor-to-handle-hot-springs-childs-death

Ark. Code Ann. § 5-2-202. Culpable mental states — Definitions.

As used in the Arkansas Criminal Code, there are four (4) kinds of culpable mental states that are defined as follows:
(1) "Purposely." …
(2) "Knowingly." …
(3) "Recklessly." (A) A person acts recklessly with respect to attendant circumstances or a result of his or her conduct when the person consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the attendant circumstances exist or the result will occur.
(B) The risk must be of a nature and degree that disregard of the risk constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the actor's situation; and
(4) "Negligently." (A) A person acts negligently with respect to attendant circumstances or a result of his or her conduct when the person should be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the attendant circumstances exist or the result will occur.
(B) The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the actor's failure to perceive the risk involves a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the actor's situation considering the nature and purpose of the actor's conduct and the circumstances known to the actor.

§ 5-10-104. Manslaughter.
(a) A person commits manslaughter if:
…
(3) The person recklessly causes the death of another person; or
…
(c) Manslaughter is a Class C felony.


§ 5-10-105. Negligent homicide.
(a) (1) A person commits negligent homicide if he or she negligently causes the death of another person, not constituting murder or manslaughter, as a result of operating a vehicle, an aircraft, or a watercraft:
(A) While intoxicated;
(B) (i) If at that time there is an alcohol concentration of eight hundredths (0.08) or more in the person's breath or blood based upon the definition of alcohol concentration in § 5-65-204, as determined by a chemical test of the person's blood, urine, breath, saliva, or other bodily substance.
(ii) The method of the chemical test of the person's blood, urine, saliva, breath, or other bodily substance shall be made in accordance with §§ 5-65-204 and 5-65-206;
…
(2) A person who violates subdivision (a)(1) of this section upon conviction is guilty of a Class B felony.
(b) (1) A person commits negligent homicide if he or she negligently causes the death of another person.​
(2) A person who violates subdivision (b)(1) of this section upon conviction is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
…
 

katydid23

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I agree something stinks. I was asking the previous poster to clarify is all.

The driving to his neighbor's house is just crazy. Your child is dead in your car and you get behind the wheel and drive to the neighbor's?!! Hospital I could maybe understand. In a panic you might just react. But this... I don't like it.

I wasn't trying to defend him. This is indefensible -- he drove a few blocks before even calling 911. I was just trying to understand why he wouldn't 'notice' that his baby wasn't in the home after 4 hours.
 

CCmakes3

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Scott Ellington of Jonesboro, the prosecuting attorney for the 2nd Judicial District, has been named to investigate the case.

http://posting.arktimes.com/media/pdf/20150727153934.pdf

They are going through the motions but I predict no charges will be filed in this "tragic accident" and we will be asked to give the family privacy in their "time of grief" and the media will dutifully pack up shop and go home (if they haven't already). Even a "special prosecutor" doesn't want to start a precedent of holding a judge to the competent parenting standards that the rest of us live by.
 

Margo/Mom

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The reason car seats are in the back is because the grandchild of a doctor got decapitated when the mother's car hit something at 5 mph. The air bag went off

That can be fixed by putting the car seat in a rear-facing position.

I think that the recommendations originally came from data produced from crash tests with dummies--even though such dramatic incidents often spur action on known data.

But what is known sometimes changes. The sleeping position of babies recommendations have changed several times in my lifetime--each changed spurred by learning new things.

I just wonder if down the road we might discover that there are factors other than crashes that impact our consideration of the best location for car seats.
 

Margo/Mom

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They are going through the motions but I predict no charges will be filed in this "tragic accident" and we will be asked to give the family privacy in their "time of grief" and the media will dutifully pack up shop and go home (if they haven't already). Even a "special prosecutor" doesn't want to start a precedent of holding a judge to the competent parenting standards that the rest of us live by.

Based on what I have read so far in the press, including the police statement, not only has there been an ongoing investigation (preliminary cause of death heat, but still awaiting toxicology results for complete and final verdict), an outside investigator appointed. Parents and neighbors have been forthcoming and offered themselves for questioning. These seem to be the typical steps (although for most parents the investigator would be internal).

I don't know that I have a general sense of what charges have been applied to parents of varying status across the board in such cases. I do recall the case of a teacher forgetting that she was the drop-off person on a day in which her morning schedule was atypical due to having to pick something up before school. Certainly the requirements of law (which someone has listed above) will figure into what charges can be filed--including the elusive concept of intent.

Meanwhile, my heart goes out to any family that loses a child, regardless of circumstance. And I remain grateful that it is others than I who have to make decisions in the aftermath.
 

bluesneakers

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I wasn't trying to defend him. This is indefensible -- he drove a few blocks before even calling 911. I was just trying to understand why he wouldn't 'notice' that his baby wasn't in the home after 4 hours.

I'm sorry! My absolute last thought is that you'd be trying to defend him. Understand what happened and why, yes, be compassionate yes, but not defend him. At least I get that idea from everything else you've posted about this.

I should have been more clear.
 

CCmakes3

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Based on what I have read so far in the press, including the police statement, not only has there been an ongoing investigation (preliminary cause of death heat, but still awaiting toxicology results for complete and final verdict), an outside investigator appointed. Parents and neighbors have been forthcoming and offered themselves for questioning. These seem to be the typical steps (although for most parents the investigator would be internal).

I don't know that I have a general sense of what charges have been applied to parents of varying status across the board in such cases. I do recall the case of a teacher forgetting that she was the drop-off person on a day in which her morning schedule was atypical due to having to pick something up before school. Certainly the requirements of law (which someone has listed above) will figure into what charges can be filed--including the elusive concept of intent.

Meanwhile, my heart goes out to any family that loses a child, regardless of circumstance. And I remain grateful that it is others than I who have to make decisions in the aftermath.

Bbm. Agreed. I actually don't think he intended to kill his child. I just think he got too immersed in something selfish to meet his minimum responsibilities of being a parent. Whether it was sex, drugs, sleep, work, or hell--even preparing an anniversary surprise for his wife, it still seems to meet the standard for neglect. He put his own desires ahead of his child's basic survival needs. The whole "forgetting" thing is kind of irrelevant to me. If you can forget your child (or their whereabouts) long enough for them to die, you are a negligent parent.
 

human

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That can be fixed by putting the car seat in a rear-facing position.

I think that the recommendations originally came from data produced from crash tests with dummies--even though such dramatic incidents often spur action on known data.

But what is known sometimes changes. The sleeping position of babies recommendations have changed several times in my lifetime--each changed spurred by learning new things.

I just wonder if down the road we might discover that there are factors other than crashes that impact our consideration of the best location for car seats.

I know the family personally who got it made into law.
 

CCmakes3

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That can be fixed by putting the car seat in a rear-facing position.

I think that the recommendations originally came from data produced from crash tests with dummies--even though such dramatic incidents often spur action on known data.

But what is known sometimes changes. The sleeping position of babies recommendations have changed several times in my lifetime--each changed spurred by learning new things.

I just wonder if down the road we might discover that there are factors other than crashes that impact our consideration of the best location for car seats.

What about the sensors in newer cars that turn the airbag off if someone under xx? pounds is in the passenger seat? Are they not 100% reliable, or why can't you put an infant car seat in those seats?
 

NSS

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I put my infant grandson in the front seat. It is rear facing, my airbag is disabled whilst he is on board and the seat is at it's furthest position back. I am in the UK and thought the rear seats were a recommendation (because of the airbag risk) not a law. At 7 months he already messes with the straps, and I prefer to keep him where I can see him.

I am mortified that this may be illegal, and am off to check immediately.
 

NSS

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bluesneakers

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Were they celebrating it? I still don't understand as to what this guy was thinking about where his son is during the hours his son was dying in his car.

Maybe he was asleep? But four hours is a very long nap imo.
 

CCmakes3

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Were they celebrating it? I still don't understand as to what this guy was thinking about where his son is during the hours his son was dying in his car.
Interesting question....maybe he and the wife met at home for a nooner and then fell asleep??? But that would mean BOTH parents forgot about the most sacred gift of their celebrated marriage, which seems unlikely. And if it were just his wife at home, he wouldn't have had to drive blocks away before calling 911. Nope, the judge was up to something that afternoon, but I don't think it had anything to do with his wife. "Pacifying" a mistress who was jealous about a pending anniversary celebration, perhaps?? Will be interesting to see if the wife stands by him. Seems they always do, no matter what!! :rolleyes:
 

La Louve

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It would be interesting to know if any surveillance cameras in the neighborhood caught any movement from the house after he left to call 911. I mean why wouldn't he just run next door, or next door to that? odd.

I agree, the fact that he drove somewhere else to call 911 is very suspicious to me.

Reminds me of the way Cooper Harris's dad drove for a couple miles before noticing his child was now dead in the back seat, and then where he finally pulled over was odd to a lot of sleuthers too.
 
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