Discussion in 'Luka Rocco Magnotta AKA Eric Newman' started by JBean, Jun 20, 2012.
Please see the 'Prelim Thread' for what happened today in court. I've posted the link!
Ive sort of thought the same thing as you zvzvzv. There is no Jury to pander to during this Preliminary, but.... he's aware of the Journalists in the room.
So.. because there is no Jury, why would he show any emotion at all? The only thing I can think of is; "wow, Im screwed!".
My question to you experts in this area is: Does the Crown need to divuldge the contents of all thier evidence to the defense prior to the preliminary hearing? If yes: Would the defense share that with Luka? IE: "Hey Luka, this is everything theyve got against you, you sure you want to plea not guilty?"
I think there has to be full disclosure on both sides. And, I also believe the defence does tell the client (LM) all that they've got against him.
In an odd way, his defense team is quite lucky because Magnotta will be (and likely already is) an expert in all of the evidence against him because it concerns his favorite topic in the universe: Luka Rocco Magnotta. While Magnotta's interpretation of the evidence may differ from most, trust he will be an expert in every aspect of evidence that relates to Luka Rocco Magnotta...
I'm now wondering if during the two week break the people from Berlin and Paris will be flown in to be briefed, etc.
I suppose the Internet Cafe guy will be here and perhaps LE from Berlin. And then there's the intriguing person who spent time with LM in Paris.
Perhaps others as well. The person who sat beside LM on the plane to France? The hotel (?????) people or wherever LM stayed in Paris? The transit people from Paris to Berlin.
The school people from Vancouver where parcels were delivered? :jail:
There's still a lot to come!!
Most of the European witnesses will be testifying via video-link from Europe.
As far as I know the only European witness who came over / is coming over was Alex West, the Sun Reporter, as he was planning to cover the trial anyways, likely due to his previous involvement.
"The defence has interviewed a certain number of psychiatrists," Leclair's motion read. "A number of them won't accept to work for that amount of money."
He said Friday he needed three psychiatrists to evaluate his client, who is accused of murdering and dismembering Chinese student Jun Lin, 33, in Montreal last May.
Leclair wouldn't say if the defence plans on arguing that Magnotta was not criminally responsible due to mental illness"
Just had a thought. About the vomiting while the video was playing - does that indicate that LM has no memory of doing those atrocities? Why would he vomit unless it was like seeing the situation for the first time?
Just thinking out loud here.......
:jail: :jail: :jail: :jail: :jail:
I hope you're right, dotr! But I was thinking of actors. It's fairly easy to cry on command.....real tears, I don't mean when actors use glycerine. They just think of something difficult in their real lives.
However, some bodily functions that are reflexes, like sneezing or vomiting, would be incredibly hard to do on command.
I suppose I'm starting to worry about an insanity defence. (I've been following that Kachkar trial in Toronto!)
That's a good thought, if we were talking about someone other than Luka Luka the 'actor', Luka the Drama Queen, Luka the narcissist....
Here's my take on everything that's gone down so far, and this is purely reading between the lines with the limited information we have due to the publication ban.
If Luka had no memory of doing this crime and his reaction to the video was genuine, that would indicate he had a temporary lapse of sanity at the time he murdered Jun Lin. That also would mean he committed this crime spontaneously and without any planning. But somehow he had the mental cognizance to 'advertise' the video on the internet before it even happened (if the alias names indeed belong to him), then he took the time to package up and mail body parts to specific political offices across Canada, THEN managed to get himself on a plane and gallivant across Europe for over a week before getting caught, and declare "You got me" when apprehended. That is a pretty amazing feat for someone who is not mentally intact.
Leclair seeking funds for a psych eval and experts at this point in time indicates (to me) that 1) the evidence has turned out to be more than they anticipated, 2) there has been enough evidence presented thus far to even send this to trial and 3) they are considering building a NCR case as a defense. The fact that Leclair has tried to have every piece of evidence thrown out (over 25 objections) and the judge has denied every one and has now tried to get a publication ban on the information of him requesting a psych eval and the judge denying it doesn't bode well. I can honestly see Leclair trying to get a change of venue to Ontario, or another province. He's already complaining that the information released thus far will hurt Luka's chances for a fair trial, and that he's having a hard time finding 'experts' who can communicate in English.
Of Luka's fainting/vomiting episode - it has always been my understanding that people who lose consciousness and faint do so very ungracefully. They will land in whatever awkward, contorted way they happen to fall and will usually smash their head on something on the way down, or on the floor. Consider now (and based on comments I've heard from those inside the courtroom) that for someone who was both handcuffed AND shackled, to fall so delicately, not hit anything on his way down, and end up on the floor in the fetal position seems very unlikely. The vomiting may very well have been genuine if what they were showing was the uncut video showing his face and Jun Lin actually being murdered. He would know then he's screwed. To me, that little performance was intended to interrupt the court proceedings and draw attention away from the video. And because he was "too unwell" to continue, court was adjourned for the day. Mission accomplished. Those dramatics would also set the stage for a NRC case, as he would want people to believe that this was indeed the first time he saw the video, and was so sickened and mortified for it, he passed out.
The defense really hasn't shown their hand yet, but based on the what's happened so far and reading between the lines, this is the way I see things going. I could be wrong, of course. We shall see!
That all makes a great deal of sense. I'm just very afraid that they'll go for an NCR defence. I also think they'll ask for a change in venue for the trial. (Toronto, here they come!! )
But please allow me to ask this - if indeed the vomiting was from watching the uncut/unedited version of the video.....WHY would LM vomit? Certainly not out of squeemishness (is that a word??). I suppose I can understand him vomiting out of fear, out of 'I'm so screwed', out of 'how can I erase this from my memory and the minds of people worldwide'.
If so, LM must be a big scaredy-cat. He was so afraid of flying he threw up on the plane. Now, he's afraid of his own actions. What a wuss!! :jail:
I'm just ranting here.....I'm hoping they do NOT go for an NCR thing.
Could it be that LM is suffering from severe social anxiety? Feeling very sick and vomiting can be a symptom of social phobia.
Just thinking out loud...
^^^^^^^^ That could be it! But again, there are legal medications for that sort of thing.
I guess what I found to be absurd here is that the judge, people attending, police, everyone WILL BE FORCED TO VIEW/HEAR UNGODLY EVIDENCE. So why on earth would these innocent people also need to put up with a defendant who is hurling his guts out on top of everything else horrific in that courtroom.
Maybe it's only me.....but this makes no sense. Especially if it's a medical condition which would benefit from legal meds!!
About the vomiting - do we KNOW that he 'pulled a Linda Blair' or was he merely making the motions? Does he have a bucket to puke in? Were there violent retching sounds in the courtroom? OR IS THIS VOMITING THING MERELY HEARSAY HIGHLY EXAGGERATED?
I'm going for hearsay in extreme exaggeration.
while I was not there that day I follow two reporters via twitter who tweet while in the court room - as they cannot report on evidence Luka's behaviour is front and center. One of them SUGGESTED he looked like he could be sick - rest assured had he actually vomited it would have been definitively reported; I'm willing to bet in fact it would have made major headlines like the fainting did. I would say with 99% certainty he DID NOT vomit in court.
Here's the actual tweet from one of the reporters I follow Michael Nguyen:
Michaël Nguyen ‏@micaen 20 Mar
#magnotta semble vouloir vomir en regardant la preuve. Ravale sa salive, main sur la bouche. Des curieux préfèrent ne pas regarder.
TRANSLATION #magnotta looks like he WANTS to vomit looking at the evidence. He swallows his saliva hands over mouth - certain people do not want to look. (Uncertain what he means by that last part)
Hey kids, don't try this at home!
I would agree.
Regarding vomiting, I wanted to drop some knowledge that you might find helpful:
As a male who recovered from multiple years with eating disorders, I can share that you gain a control over your digestive system which with experience allows one to vomit without needing to use fingers. Even today, after years of overcoming those issues I can still do this (but choose not to).
I mention this because I recall Magnotta also struggled with eating disorders. I assume that if he vomited, he planned it and used past skills to do it without anyone noticing. (It's not hard to do if you had past experience; I've used it very rarely only when in need an emergency excuse to leave somewhere)
I'm tending to agree with those who are saying that LM did NOT vomit in the courtroom. Firstly, it would have made headlines like the collapsing did (as someone already mentioned).
And secondly, I'm sure the court would have asked for a doctor to check him out. I'm also certain that the court would have had his food/drink checked out. And all of that would have made the news bigtime.
There's a ban on evidence. But if LM enters the courtroom wearing his underpants on his head and singing "Twist And Shout", that will make the news!!
March 27 /99 article by Christie Blatchford.National Post.
"Alleged killer's face grew flushed as he watched the tape
TORONTO - It is always a telling thing, when an alleged killer watches himself on video; they are always so damn rapt, so intrigued by the clever fellow on the television monitor.
When Paul Bernardo was just an accused man, and sat in court for the endless playing of the videotapes which he and his little sprite of a wife, Karla Homolka, had made of themselves and their young victims and which later served to document the couple's joint slide into depravity, he was riveted by the sight of himself"