Armchair Psych Profile and Treatment

[gitana1]

I seriously doubt he was scripted Vicodin for anxiety.

He probably didn't even have a prescription for it, it's very easy to get on the street or from a friend.

Bingo. Vicodin is NOT an anti-anxiety medication and is never prescribed for that. It's pain medication.

I have a friend who is a heroin addict. He's brilliant and kind and interesting but he has been battling addiction most of his life. He will use pills like vicodin when he's cycling back into drug usage. He can get them in five minutes, without a prescription. Almost anyone can.

 

[prima.facie]

Yes, Xanax/Valium, etc give you a high and are highly addictive. In fact, withdrawal from Xanax or any other benzo is much more dangerous than withdrawal from an opiate (vicodin), it can give you seizures.

drugs/medications affect everyone differently...
i have anxiety issues - and have had them since i was a kid.
only until the past couple of years have i sought treatment for it.
ive taken xanax and it does NOT give me a high. it makes me very tired and "chilled out"...in fact it helps me sleep and helps me avoid the night anxiety i tend to get....it is also not habit forming for me....i dont have much of an addictive personality anyways.....

ive never done [illegal] drugs before....so my tollerance level for any meds is very low...so i take the lowest dose available....

 

[Liz]

I seriously doubt he was scripted Vicodin for anxiety.

He probably didn't even have a prescription for it, it's very easy to get on the street or from a friend.

~bbm~ :what:

Some friends!! (I know what you're saying but still ... bad friends!) JMO

 

[gitana1]

From what's being reported, I'm not too impressed with his supposed psychiatrist and if what's being reported is true I won't be all that surprised to hear she was mis-prescribing his meds. Sadly it happens more than people realize. But Vicodin for anxiety?! (For those who don't know me, I'm stating this as a psych patient not as a professional in any sense of the word)

I'm impressed with her. It looks like there was no threat that would enable her to call the police, yet she had the foresight and professionalism to realize that even in the absence of such threats, something may be seriously wrong. She then took measures to try to assess the shooter for threat, and began assembling the BETA team to do so. He quit the school at the same time and obviously, quit any treatment at that time as well. The BETA team and the school and the pscyh had no power once he took those measures. In the absence of a direct threat:

They could not call the police.
They could not force treatment.
They could not force an assessment.
They could not call his parents, or friends or landlord and describe his behavior.

What they could do is send him letters or leave messages urging he submit to assessment or treatment and offering help with finding new treatment providers. They could express their concern to him. That's it. And we have nothing to suggest they didn't do just that.

I read comments at the ends of articles about this case. There are tons of people shrieking that the school or Fenton are 100% responsible. That sentiment is often followed by, "someone has to be liable for such a tragedy! Fifty eight people were wounded and 12 died! Someone has to pay for that!"

I really think that is the main reason most are calling for blood in the absence of any info indicating that the school or Fenton failed to do all they could based on what they observed.

 

[prima.facie]

~bbm~ :what:

Some friends!! (I know what you're saying but still ... bad friends!) JMO

oh its amazing what "friends" will do. lol
i have a friend who is bi-polar and extreme anxiety issues...

if im around her and a bit stressed out....her first answer is "i have something you can take!"....

:what:

 

[newsleuther]

drugs/medications affect everyone differently...
i have anxiety issues - and have had them since i was a kid.
only until the past couple of years have i sought treatment for it.
ive taken xanax and it does NOT give me a high. it makes me very tired and "chilled out"...in fact it helps me sleep and helps me avoid the night anxiety i tend to get....it is also not habit forming for me....i dont have much of an addictive personality anyways.....

ive never done [illegal] drugs before....so my tollerance level for any meds is very low...so i take the lowest dose available....

If you take it every day, even without abusing it - your body will be addicted to it and you will have to titer off of it when you stop.

 

[prima.facie]

If you take it every day, even without abusing it - your body will be addicted to it and you will have to titer off of it when you stop.

well of course...
however, it does not give everyone a high...it doesnt for me.
now ive taken percocet after surgeries....and THAT gives me a high....but xanax puts me to sleep....

 

[zvzvzv]

SNIPPED
In the absence of a direct threat:

They could not call the police.
They could not force treatment.
They could not force an assessment.
They could not call his parents, or friends or landlord and describe his behavior.

i agree that there was nothing the Dr could do,
unless he admitted to making bombs in his
apartment or buying guns specifically to kill people with.

The most she could do without this specific info
would be to ask police to make a 'welfare check'
on him, but he could simply not answer the door.
It's not a criminal matter, they won't pursue him after an attempted contact.

 

[OneLostGrl]

drugs/medications affect everyone differently...
i have anxiety issues - and have had them since i was a kid.
only until the past couple of years have i sought treatment for it.
ive taken xanax and it does NOT give me a high. it makes me very tired and "chilled out"...in fact it helps me sleep and helps me avoid the night anxiety i tend to get....it is also not habit forming for me....i dont have much of an addictive personality anyways.....

ive never done [illegal] drugs before....so my tollerance level for any meds is very low...so i take the lowest dose available....

That "tired and chilled out" and making you sleep is in fact a high... it's the high you get from Benzo's. It's habit forming in that if you no longer had it you would no longer get chilled out and sleepy and would be once again full of that anxiety you speak of. So you need it to feel normal, to stop the anxiety and make it through the day or night.

I never did illegal drugs either, I just happened to have a parent who firmly believed in psych meds so I'd been on them from a young age and never even bothered with street drugs. I had a doctor who gave me Benzo's for an incredibly long period of time (8+ years) so the lowest dose stopped working.. and they had to keep upping my dose. The lowest dose doesn't work for very long... it will eventually stop putting the user to sleep.

 

[Padua]

This may have already been posted.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012...theater-shooter-called-him-prior-to-massacre/

In an exclusive interview, Pimp My Ride’s Diggity Dave told KNX 1070’s Charles Feldman that a young man who called himself “James Holmes” phoned him in June about his upcoming film, “The Suffocator of Sins.”

Dave wrote, directed and stars in the forthcoming takeoff of the Batman movie, which shows a young vigilante Batman shooting down evil doers. Some have said the YouTube trailer resembles a crowded movie theater. He describes the film as a “very sick and dark twist of the Batman movies.”

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm impressed with her. It looks like there was no threat that would enable her to call the police, yet she had the foresight and professionalism to realize that even in the absence of such threats, something may be seriously wrong. She then took measures to try to assess the shooter for threat, and began assembling the BETA team to do so. He quit the school at the same time and obviously, quit any treatment at that time as well. The BETA team and the school and the pscyh had no power once he took those measures. In the absence of a direct threat:

They could not call the police.
They could not force treatment.
They could not force an assessment.
They could not call his parents, or friends or landlord and describe his behavior.

What they could do is send him letters or leave messages urging he submit to assessment or treatment and offering help with finding new treatment providers. They could express their concern to him. That's it. And we have nothing to suggest they didn't do just that.

I read comments at the ends of articles about this case. There are tons of people shrieking that the school or Fenton are 100% responsible. That sentiment is often followed by, "someone has to be liable for such a tragedy! Fifty eight people were wounded and 12 died! Someone has to pay for that!"

I really think that is the main reason most are calling for blood in the absence of any info indicating that the school or Fenton failed to do all they could based on what they observed.

I'm talking about the way she supposedly handed out drugs to employees, her spouse etc and didn't keep records. That just doesn't impress me. Again, IF it's true

 

[February]

I think we are somewhat jumping a lot here ... we don't even know yet what Fenton learned why she think that JH could be dangerous to others that she had to talked to BETA Team on this.

Once we learn it then we can understand more why there is no need to call the cops during that time. But as the Media described "dangerous to others" , i do think this could be a threat already to injure others IMO

 

[zvzvzv]

I think we are somewhat jumping a lot here ... we don't even know yet what Fenton learned why she think that JH could be dangerous to others that she had to talked to BETA Team on this.

Once we learn it then we can understand more why there is no need to call the cops during that time. But as the Media described "dangerous to others" , i do think this could be a threat already to injure others IMO

exactly, thoughts about hurting people could be considered
dangerous to others, but it's not legally 'a danger to to others'
unless he admitted to a specific plan.
for instance, with reference to the 72 hour psychiatric hold,
if someone has 'suicidal ideation' but no specific method in mind,
most mental health professionals would not put a legal hold on a person.

 

[February]

http://www.criminal-lawyer-colorado...-and-colorado-involuntary-treatment-laws.html

Here is a copy of the Colorado Law in this Area: more on the link about the 72 hour hold.

27-65-106. Court-ordered evaluation for persons with mental illness.

(1) Any person alleged to have a mental illness and, as a result of the mental illness, to be a danger to others or to himself or herself or to be gravely disabled may be given an evaluation of his or her condition under a court order pursuant to this section.

(2) Any individual may petition the court in the county in which the respondent resides or is physically present alleging that there is a person who appears to have a mental illness and, as a result of the mental illness, appears to be a danger to others or to himself or herself or appears to be gravely disabled and requesting that an evaluation of the person’s condition be made.

 

[21merc7]

I'm talking about the way she supposedly handed out drugs to employees, her spouse etc and didn't keep records. That just doesn't impress me. Again, IF it's true

For me it's the accupuncture boob scam, and some mention of testing in other areas, along with the records.

I'm sure she handled this issue just fine, but being a doc and experimenting - in questionable areas - gives me the heebees. I wouldn't want to see her. Just saying.

If I'm going to a doc that specializes in any area, I want all of their studies and professional employment to also be in that area. Otherwise, they are just a g.p.

 

[February]

Who can institute a “hold and treat” for involuntary mental health treatment?

Police

Physician (M.D.)

Licensed psychologist

Registered nurse (R.N.)

Licensed clinical social worker

Licensed counselor or marriage and family therapist with special training

National Park Ranger

A family member can also go to probate court to ask for a hold.

The law provides two types of Holds for Involuntary Treatment:

1) A 72-hour Hold and Treat – This enables a person to be held involuntarily for a period of 72 hours, or three days, for evaluation and treatment.

If symptoms are apparent in a brief evaluation by police and the person is unwilling to go to a professional, family members may petition the civil court system to order an evaluation.

http://www.criminal-lawyer-colorado...-and-colorado-involuntary-treatment-laws.html

 

[zvzvzv]

this, to me is the most important part to understand.
i've known MHP's who conduct such evaluations &
this part is their main priority.

An evaluator is responsible to determine the LEAST RESTRICTIVE CARE and best outcome for follow through. An evaluator’s license is on the line with his or her disposition decision.

I believe even if Holmes had an evaluation
earlier in July it wouldn't change anything.

 

[February]

this, to me is the most important part to understand.
i've known MHP's who conduct such evaluations &
this part is their main priority.

An evaluator is responsible to determine the LEAST RESTRICTIVE CARE and best outcome for follow through. An evaluator’s license is on the line with his or her disposition decision.

I believe even if Holmes had an evaluation
earlier in July it wouldn't change anything.

sometimes an evaluation could end up deeper during that conversation and he could state "i purchase this and that"... and that could lead to LE possibly investigating his actual apartment and will at least check all his combat purchases. If that happened, things could possibly change... or not. IMO..

 

[newsleuther]

I don't know how it varies State by State, but my teenaged brother simply told a friend "sometimes I feel so desperate that I want to end it", not even meaning it, and the following transpired:

Friend called police
Police showed up and took away my brother
Brother was admitted to ER
Brother had to wait for 6 hours to see a doctor and be evaluated
2 hour eval by Dr, then was released.

So both the police and the hospital were involved, and he wasn't even in treatment. So, he wasn't placed on a 72 hour hold or anything, but he was immediately assessed.

That's what I find kind of strange, she notified the internal team at the school that she was concerned, but nothing happened. But also, we don't have all the info yet, so this is total speculation.

 

[21merc7]

I don't know how it varies State by State, but my teenaged brother simply told a friend "sometimes I feel so desperate that I want to end it", not even meaning it, and the following transpired:

Friend called police
Police showed up and took away my brother
Brother was admitted to ER
Brother had to wait for 6 hours to see a doctor and be evaluated
2 hour eval by Dr, then was released.

So both the police and the hospital were involved, and he wasn't even in treatment. So, he wasn't placed on a 72 hour hold or anything, but he was immediately assessed.

That's what I find kind of strange, she notified the internal team at the school that she was concerned, but nothing happened. But also, we don't have all the info yet, so this is total speculation.

Same thing happens here news. If you are not acting bizarrely, you can understand and answer the doc, you tell them you are okay and not going to kill yourself or anyone else, you are out of there as soon as the doc stands up. Nothing they can do if you are acting normally, can function, can answer normally.