Armchair Psych Profile and Treatment

Discussion in 'Movie Theater Massacre in Colorado' started by JBean, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Walker

    Walker New Member

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    Yes. Because she was also a professor at the same university.

    The whole set-up was unethical.

    As a professor, she is in a position of influence and authority over grad students, esp. since they were both working in related fields. The psychotherapist must maintain a professional detachment and relationship of trust with her patient. Treatment requires exploration of some deeply personal and sensitive issues. As a co-worker, she was just too close personally to treat JH as a patient. His supervisors were her colleagues. And, as a member of the faculty, she may have certain conflicts of interest; for example, concerns over the school's image.

    When these cases arise, the psychotherapist has an obligation to refer the patient to another therapist.
     


  2. ladeda7777

    ladeda7777 Member

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    Here is a reference to what Grasshopper is taking about but it is hearsay. Couldn't find a post on the Skinny Puppy FB page regarding JH.
     
  3. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Do you understand what student health care is? Her job is to provide mental health care for students.
     
  4. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say solely.
     
  5. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    What you seem to be referring to is the issue of dual relationships. There are at least two settings where these occur and are not considered unethical. One is forensic psychiatry/psychology within the criminal justice system involving everything from custody evaluations, competency evaluations, and NGRI evaluations, to treatment in a prison setting. The other involves student counseling centers.

    In both instances, the clients are both the institution and the patient. That is, the clinician is working for the institution and evaluating and/or treating the patient. This can be ethically challenging. This is esp so in competency cases. For example, the clinician is required to restore a person to sanity so that s/he may stand trial in a capital case, or likewise, restore a death row inmate to sanity so that s/he may be put to death.

    Btw, the question of dual relationships with university settings has been raised, though not answered. ( link )
     
  6. Walker

    Walker New Member

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    The set-up was fundamentally wrong.

    A professor might be able to treat a student's allergies, no problem. A professor might be able to treat a student's bone injury, no problem. These simple conditions do not usually require delving into the patient's intimate personal or family history.

    But the professor cannot treat a grad student's possible schizophrenia or related illnesses; and therapists are supposed to learn that fact very early in their education. This topic is usually covered in undergrad intro psych courses. Whenever the therapist feels that a personal relationship or feelings may interfere with their judgment even in the slightest way, they are obligated to make a referral. These referrals are a common practice.
     
  7. Walker

    Walker New Member

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    This woman was more than a clinician; she was also a member of the faculty; therefore, she was his superior in a work environment. That they did not work together directly does not matter; he still may have been concerned that she would report his symptoms to his supervisors.

    Do students understand that psychotherapists employed by their university may have a financial stake in protecting their university? For example: Say the university harms a student by setting up an unnecessarily overly stressful situation. Might not a therapist be tempted to encourage the student to blame himself for his discomfort?
     
  8. newsleuther

    newsleuther New Member

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    I don't think that Dr. Fenton was one of his professors though.
     
  9. rollinginit

    rollinginit Active Member

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    From his application, his GPA was 3.94, his major GPA was 3.85' and his GPA scale was 4.0. I also know the UIUC really wanted him at their school. You can tell that pretty much from every page submitted. They also offered him the 22,000+ a year along with tutu ion paid. Nothing different than the Univ. Of Colorado that I could see.

    In emails, it is stated he really wanted to meet a certain teacher of that program. From emails, I can tell that teacher made time to meet him. I can also tell that somebody made notes while they showed him around (or maybe he did) and they put in the notes the colleges of iowa, Colorado, and Alabama.
    It was on page 94 of http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_documents/holmes_application.pdf
    I remember when I took my daughter to visit colleges. The guide always took notes and asked questions.
     
  10. ladeda7777

    ladeda7777 Member

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  11. zvzvzv

    zvzvzv New Member

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    I swear just a few hours ago I read all of cEvin Key's postings about his encounter w/ JH right here.
    were they deleted by mods?
    Anyway the poster said they are on the facebook of 'cevin key'
    from a posting on 7/20. There were several comments by cevin describing the meeting.

    whoever you were, thanks again for the post.
     
  12. Walker

    Walker New Member

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    The faculty as a group has authority over the graduate students; therefore, she should have referred him outside.

    What if the university or psychiatric faculty set this situation up deliberately? Maybe JH had volunteered to participate in a test of an experimental drug, and it really messed him up.

    To avoid such conflicts of interest, and possibly the appearance of corruption, mental health professionals are trained to make referrals.
     
  13. ladeda7777

    ladeda7777 Member

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    zvzvzv - What did you get from that post?
     
  14. 21merc7

    21merc7 New Member

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    Walker, I get what you are saying about the therapist being in a "conflict of interest" position.

    I have also wondered about JH volunteering for an experimental drug.

    Thinking it through tells me this.

    Fenton did not notice anything about JH until sometime in the" first 10 days of June". JH quit school on the 12th of June, or thereabout. So, there was no time to refer him to anyone else. He was gone from there. If they tried to call him just to help or suggest, he may not have answered, or cared.

    Test drugs I don't think the school would do if they are paying his way to the tune of $26,000 per year. Allow students to take notes during such a thing perhaps, but not participate given outcomes are unknown and liability for the student, waiver or not.

    JH taking drugs of any sort, homemade, street made, lab made, that is obvious. That was his personal choice though, and not related to the school.
     
  15. zvzvzv

    zvzvzv New Member

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    Basically Cevin felt a weird vibe from this person who
    was pretty much lurking around him at a gig, they talked,
    the person said he was a neuroscience student, which
    interested Cevin, the student brought up the topic of LSD.
    Cevin said something to the effect of there is a point where
    a person has taken enough LSD, and that was 20 years ago for him.
    The student said that he had not reached that point.
    Cevin vividly remembers this encounter because of the
    strange 'vibrations' and unsettling eyes of the student &
    was struck by the fact a neuroscience student was taking LSD.
    The way he speaks of it, it was a remarkable encounter even
    before learning what happened in Aurora, almost like Cevin was afraid of him.

    What do I get from it personally?
    It's hard to tell if his bizarre affect was because he was actually
    on LSD at the show, due to social awkwardness or displaying
    signs of mental illness.
     
  16. ciela

    ciela New Member

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    If JH expected "suicide by cop" he may have taken the vicodin just before the shooting. I have not completely been persuaded that he did all of this alone and I am entertaining the notion that he snapped when he did poorly on his orals. That being said, I think there were much deeper issues with JH than we know at this time. He could have obtained the drugs illegally out of someones med cabinet or even from his parents med cabinet or on the streets. We may never know.

    :fence:
     
  17. ciela

    ciela New Member

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    Perhaps Multiple Identity Disorder.... anything is possible with the parsity of facts that we have.
     
  18. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    In a real world, students with student health insurance utilize student health services. And its not considered a conflict of interest.
    And I find the idea that experimental drugs are being tested on students to be completely laughable.
     
  19. newsleuther

    newsleuther New Member

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    I highly doubt that if the University was even testing experimental drugs (unlikely), that they would use their highly valuable grad students as test candidates.

    I find it way more likely that someone interested in memories and the mind would experiment w/ psychedelics and the like on their own.
     
  20. Tucarra

    Tucarra Member

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    Appeared on CNN a couple days ago....perhaps tangentially relevant, but discussion is from an adult professor who was MI in graduate school...


    "One Friday night on the roof of the Yale Law School library I scared my classmates with a full-blown psychotic episode."........""The next morning, I went to my professor's office to ask for an extension, and began gibbering unintelligibly as I had the night before. He eventually brought me to the Emergency Room."...

    The woman is very courageous, and although not the most dynamic speaker I've ever seen, she sheds light on her personal experience with schizophrenia during graduate school...

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/12/opinion/saks-mental-illness/index.html
     

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