Found Safe *Arrest Krista Madden* NC - Shaylie Madden, 7-week-old infant, Biltmore Par, 9 May, 2019

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by PommyMommy, May 9, 2019.

  1. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    yeah making sure the baby is safe from mom right now is more important than mom's mental wellness
     
  2. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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    If she is bonded out of jail she is free to go anywhere unless they put restrictions on her. Ideally, they would transfer her directly from jail. There are acute level facilities that are locked but they are fewer and fewer. I am pretty sure that UNC is a locked unit.
     
  3. Gunslinging Granny

    Gunslinging Granny Well-Known Member

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    Here's some help: Susan Smith.
     
  4. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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    I am unaware that she was diagnosed with PPP.
     
  5. ?mysterian?

    ?mysterian? Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so ideally she would voluntarily go for evaluation/treatment. If she doesn't, but bonds out, is the next step then involuntary commitment? The best possible outcome is evaluation and treatment, right? And jails aren't the ideal treatment facilities for the mentally ill, IMO.

    ETA: (for clarity). If she bonds out but then decides she's not going to go for eval/treatment, what's next? Wait for the next court date? Involuntary commitment?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  6. Gunslinging Granny

    Gunslinging Granny Well-Known Member

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    Her defense tried to use that excuse.
     
  7. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Pamela Clark:
    https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1748&context=lawreview
    One evening, for no apparent reason, Pamela Sue Clarkwrapped her baby in a blanket and abandoned it in the desert. Clark later told her husband that the baby was kidnapped. When the po-lice arrived, Clark explained how someone had grabbed her from behind, knocked her unconscious, and when she awoke, the baby wasgone. However, the police noted that there were no signs of forcedentry or visible injuries to Clark, and she appeared unusually calmand unemotional. Three days later, Clark admitted she abandoned her baby and directed the police to where she left the child, where- upon the child was immediately retrieved.

    Clark was charged with attempted murder and her defense was insanity. The psychiatrist who examined her testified "that severepostpartum depression rendered [Clark] legally insane at the time ofthe crime."6 Members of Clark's family, however, testified that her conduct was normal immediately precedingthe crime, and it was only after the alleged crime that they "noticed a change in her per- sonality."6 Based upon this testimony, the jury concluded that theevidence was inadequate to overcome the presumption of Clark's sanity.

    The appellate court affirmed the decision, noting that the jurycould reasonably find Clark's evidence to be insufficient to dispel the presumption of sanity.65 Another factor which was important to the jury was the element of time. Although the jury might have believedthat Clark could not control her immediate responses to her childbecause she suffered from postpartum depression, the jury had difficulty believing a mother could drive many miles to a deserted road and abandon her baby, without having time to reflect on the situation and control her actions.

    The majority opinion in the United States today is in accordance with these cases, rejecting postpartum depression as a complete defense.
     
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  8. Gunslinging Granny

    Gunslinging Granny Well-Known Member

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    A jury convicted her of the attempted murder of her infant daughter, Heather Denise Clark.
     
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  9. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Right, but that doesn't mean she wasn't diagnosed with PPD.

    I am not saying that Krista shouldn't necessarily be found GUILTY. I would have to see the trial first.

    But the question was, DOES SHE SUFFER FROM PPD. I think she probably does. JMO
     
  10. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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    If she bonds out and does not enter treatment and is actively psychotic then definitely involuntary commitment
     
  11. ?mysterian?

    ?mysterian? Well-Known Member

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    @angelainwi Ok. Thanks for answering my questions. :)

    ETA hit wrong response button
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  12. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

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    I agree. We have to remember that this is a young family. Medical school can be financially debilitating and the debts can take a person years to pay off.
     
  13. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

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    I totally understand this situation and lack of services in the area you live/work. It is the same where I live......and yes......it's in the United States. People are suffering and there seems to be no help in site for many of them. It's shameful in my opinion, but that's for a different thread.
     
  14. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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    Many mothers who have committed infanticide have been diagnosed with PPD/PPP. They have still gone to trial and most have been convicted of a crime. Many have shown elements of premeditation. And still been diagnosed with PPP. Being diagnosed isn't an automatic out of jail card. Usually, it is a mitigating factor in sentencing. This is an area that needs more research. We need to do better at taking care of new mothers and screening for PPD/PPP. I suffered from PPD with my firstborn. Thank God, because of my training I recognized it almost right away. It was frightening as heck. Thank God again, that I did not do something crazy. I felt completely crazy. I did not feel in control of my behaviors. I became violent and did things that required organized thinking. Thankfully, I was not psychotic and had not broken from reality yet. But I was on my way. If left untreated who knows. I cannot imagine if left untreated that the depression turned into psychosis and that when I came back to reality I found out that I killed or tried to kill my baby. No matter how I did it or how seemingly sneaky and manipulative it was. I think that if one is pretty smart that you do not lose all of that faculty while psychotic. I think an actively psychotic mother could put together a somewhat decent plan to cover up hurting their baby. Their brain may be telling them that it is the right thing to do, the altruistic thing. And that they have to cover it up, that the dad cannot find out that she did it because he might try to go and save the baby or who knows what their mind is saying. In this case, I do not even feel like it was really premeditated or that she even really had a decent plan. I think she finally acted on the psychotic thoughts and made up the cover up as she went. Of course I could be completely wrong. But my gut is that she was and may possibly still be suffering a PP episode.
     
  15. Gunslinging Granny

    Gunslinging Granny Well-Known Member

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    She turned off the location services on her phone so her mom (likely the first 911 caller, imo) couldn't track where she was throwing the baby off the cliff. She texted her mom telling her she was in the trunk of her call while she was driving her car. She didn't call the police or text 911. She threw the baby into a ravine where it should never have been found. She left the scene of the crime. She drove miles away from the crime scene and hid her car from view by opening up a bamboo gate and driving her car down a private road. She found a rural highway where a resident called the sheriff. She continued with her "kidnappers did it-I'm innocent" obstruction of justice actions for 3 hours instead of telling LE what she had done to her baby.

    She knew right from wrong and created lies to try to prevent her own prosecution. Her story doesn't resemble other true postpartum depression/psychosis infanticide stories. Her story closely resembles Susan Smith's and Pamela Clark's lies. Both of these females were found guilty and sentenced to prison.
     
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  16. Gunslinging Granny

    Gunslinging Granny Well-Known Member

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    Evidence on the 911 tape and the covered foot photo of Shaylie show she has some type of health issue and possibly a disability. Throwing a handicapped child off a cliff is evil.
     
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  17. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I totally agree with all of the above. My stubborn arguing here is more about hearing someone say that she absolutely is NOT suffering from PPD.

    I totally agree that PPD does not mean that a jury won't find her guilty. I might vote guilty myself. But that doesn't mean she is not suffering from Post Partum.
     
  18. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    I am very glad to see this. This is HIS baby girl so he must know something we do not, to not immediately condemn her. I do wish he also would have turned off commenting. He probably doesn't have access though. It's certainly not showing the best of humanity by the comments. :(

    Thank you to those here who are being kind and compassionate to the entire family. I think they deserve that.


    However, I'm sure you'd agree that these aren't generally something that just show up one day without warning. There would be signs of issues.

    Borderlines do very frequently end up in care taking roles or professions. However, it's just not something that appears one day 7 weeks PP.


    If a fundraiser was started it would just be taken down. The policy is that you cannot fund raise for a criminal defense... and given the vultures and sharks out for blood with Krista? It would be reported and taken down in hours even if it was for medical care.


    Yes. I've seen this firsthand.
    Someone who drinks bleach because it's there and they are thirsty, may still remember to lock their door or turn off their lights. They didn't drink the bleach to hurt themselves, they were just thirsty.
    It doesn't always make sense to a rational mind because their mind isn't rational. It's a terrifying thing to witness.


    Yes. Absolutely this. It's horrific. Elderly psychotic people just walking around mumbling in a group of other inmates. It's sickening and so sad to see.


    I think if one is looking at it as a psychotic break, hallucinations and delusions, then it doesn't have to fit those criteria. It can appear well planned or premeditated. Either way it can be PPD/PPP.

    It's kind of like the cases where we think that a disappearance had to have happened a certain way to be successful... then we find out we were wrong and the suspect just lucked out several times. Things are not always what they seem.

    So I'm thinking something like this, which is really quite tame compared to the things some people come up with.

    1. What if Krista thought that she and Shaylie were in danger so she turned off her location so the bad guys couldn't track them.

    2. Then she thought the bad guys were going to catch them so she threw Shaylie somewhere she thought they'd never find her.

    3. Then she put distance between her and Shaylie so that the kidnappers wouldn't find her and as a result find her baby.

    4. Then she realized that the kidnappers knew her car and maybe could track it so she had to get rid of that too.

    5. Then she realized she needed help so she started texting to let people know of the situation.

    There was only 3 hours before Shaylie was found. We don't know how Krista was during that time. Hopefully it was recorded so that professionals can evaluate it.

    I just don't see why she would toss Shaylie down there to kill her. It's not a certain death. She could have killed her first and then tossed her if that was her goal. It seems much more the action of a panicked/desperate woman than a logical plan.
     
  19. Gardenista

    Gardenista Well-Known Member

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  20. ?mysterian?

    ?mysterian? Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting this article. It states, {snipped by me}

    "A consent order will need to be signed by a judge before she is transferred to the facility. Henderson County District Attorney Greg Newman said he has anticipated from the beginning of the case that Madden's legal team would request an evaluation.

    Newman said he agreed to her transfer because she will remain in custody under a secured bond."{snipped by me}

    -----------

    The article also states: {snipped by me}

    "Madden will be transported by the Henderson sheriff's office to Chapel Hill. She'll be taken back to county jail once authorities are notified that her evaluation has been completed, the consent order said."{snipped by me}
     
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