Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #2

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by Emi, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Well-Known Member

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    That's simple. Because he is a druggie, slim ball. IMO he and Gabe went back on their own in order to extort more money for the remains.

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  2. lonetraveler

    lonetraveler Well-Known Member

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    I meant slime ball [emoji9]

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  3. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    blips of Oxygen show
    including JL confession

    the part about the burning
  4. italianangel2411

    italianangel2411 Well-Known Member

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    Right, John said to TJ about the burning of the remains that he wished he kept something to give to the Holloways but there isn't anything like he said he let that slip though the cracks
  5. heavenly2012

    heavenly2012 Member

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    Gabriel explained it as there wasn't enough bones to extract much from. They couldn't get anything at all out of the split one.
  6. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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  7. Barb Wire

    Barb Wire Active Member

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    He's lying never got a boat never put her in the water all lies
  8. Barb Wire

    Barb Wire Active Member

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    Gabriel had a good talk with Dave Holloway today he doesn't want to get his hopes up until October 6 for now his going to lay low. He was very grateful for what Gabe has done.They had a nice talk. Gabe posted this on his page.
  9. Smallfox

    Smallfox Member

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    I swear to goodness, John Lind and Gabriel remind me so much of John Mark Carr. The guy that put himself into the JonBenet Ramsey case.

    Just seem like they are attention seeking. I tried watching one of Gabriel's videos and it was so ignorant I had to turn it off. Not only him, but all of the women that are chasing him.

  10. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Gabriel Madrigal
    Yesterday at 6:01pm
    Sept 24 G FB

    - 36:13
    Paulus and JVS removed all of NH's
    clothing earrings jewelry
    and they burnt it in their house

    G: you know a wild goose chase
    but I brung evidence
    at the end
    I brung evidence
    It was not easy......
    G: .....John went back in 2011
    for one reason and one reason only guys
    not to put the bones there
    Something else....
    but he went back for something and
    I have the confession why, it's regarding Natalee....
    ...... I mean I have a lawyer, he tells me
    what I can say
    what I can not
    He watches my videos
    he calls me
    'What? you crazy...'

    -20: 14
    Shelly says
    Q: There were some of your original videos on youtube
    Why were they taken down?
    G: Uhm, my lawyer told me to take them down
    and uhm I don't know why
    He just told me to take them down
    but once I get the okay
    I'll put them back up

    (G made (40 videos)
    'John's crazy adventures',

    he put the video -- of J eating crickets, maggots
    hit with shovel in groin, jalapeno challenge,
    dressed in pink tootoo
    getting blasted by paint balls,
    pepper sprayed J's eyeballs.
    J ate dog poop
    drank his own urine --
    No one forced him
    JL wanted to be the next Jack Ass)--on private)
  11. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    TJW and DH guests on
    True Crime M&M Podcasts
    begins at @3:00

    Q: Can you guys tell us how you feel about JVS?
    in general terms
    DH: Well, I wouldn't be truthfull I told you
    Ah, you know he, he's caused me a lot of grief
    for me and my family and uh
    He's got the answers
    He knows the answers
    I know for a fact that he knows exactly
    what happened
    Ah, he's trying to use that information
    when he's released 21 years from now
    when he's served that sentence for the murder
    of another woman
    He's going to try to use that information
    to negotiate his next sentencing
    in Birmingham Alabama
    And it's like okay
    do you do it now or do you do it later
    Well, he's going to do it later
    And I think we'll once again
    get some answers
    from JVS 21 years from now
    But I'm not going to wait that long

    @14:59 The Pond
    TJW: Everyday was a new, ah
    The pond that got
    uhm, the pond got, started getting drained
    So, I left the island, came back
    said, Why's the pond got water in it?
    They said, Oh, the pump broke
    so we didn't do anymore
    I was just Oh yeah
    So these are the things,
    some of the things we were fighting
    And, uhm
    And, uhm, so there was a hurricane
    that came through
    shortly after that so
    the pond became secondary
    and so we moved on to something else
  12. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Heyya smallfox

    more than just a dysfunctional relationship between G & JL?

    Like attracts like?
  13. Whiteorchids

    Whiteorchids Well-Known Member

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    I think this guy Gabe full of BS after watching his vids.
  14. Barb Wire

    Barb Wire Active Member

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    To any of you think that Joran may have killed other girls? We all know he's drugged them,I wonder if any of them OD'd on the drug he gives them. I also wonder that in 2010 if John was involved in killing one of those girls with Jordan and that was the one that they buried..
  15. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway (2017) s01e06 Episode Script

    The Bones

    This pathway is exactly
    where he told me he went.
    Can a cadaver dog pick up a
    human scent at that location?
    Has to be. Just has to be.
    He's picking up minute scent.
    I think now is the time to
    get the Arubans involved.
    You know, I'm not gonna stop
    until we finally get
    justice for Natalee.
    He's getting away. He's getting away.
    He's in a taxi. He's getting away.
    He's running like a bat out of hell.
    Oh ****.
    Could you believe he sat down
    and interviewed with me?
    Where'd you take the remains?
    The idea was to crush
    everything to the point
    where it's not recognizable
    as arm bones or skull
    or anything like that,
    and then by that night
    it was disposed of.
    If the Aruban authorities
    want to know what happened,
    are you gonna be honest with them
    and tell them what happened
    as you told me today?
    I came to Tampa, Florida,
    to meet with Gabriel to
    discuss the next steps
    and get a plan going on
    what we're gonna do next.
    This has been going on for 18 months.
    John has indicated to Gabriel
    that he's willing to pinpoint
    the exact location and cooperate
    with the Aruban authorities
    in showing the exact location
    and hopefully solving this case.
    You're coming in to Aruba on Saturday,
    and we want to make
    arrangements to go out there
    to where he's talking about
    so he can show us
    - Correct.
    - Where it is.
    Then I want us to go
    to his aunt's house.
    - Correct.
    - And I want him to show us
    - the spot behind his aunt's house.
    - Correct.
    And then where they
    dismantled Natalee's body.
    After we've gone this far,
    I need to follow it through to the end.
    You know, I know John's
    lied a number of times,
    but there's some things that he has said
    that no one else would know.
    If he is a fraud, I'm going
    to expose him as a fraud.
    Would he go walk into
    the police department
    if I t we took him there?
    I promise you I'll have him there.
    I said, "What would you do"
    if Dave Holloway seen you face to face?"
    He goes, "Well, he might
    want to shoot me"
    "and kill me for what I did,
    but I didn't kill her."
    Yeah, just make sure that he and I,
    our paths don't cross
    when we're down there.
    I cannot let that happen.
    Chief, I wanted to let
    you know we just met
    with our my informant
    and, as I told you in my message,
    that they're traveling
    early Saturday morning,
    and he wants to take us
    out to the gravesite.
    He's got Ludwig convinced
    to turn himself in
    to Aruban authorities and
    give them a statement.
    We have talked to Chief Richardson today
    with the Aruban police
    and got joint cooperation
    with that to go forth
    and to get the evidence and
    do what we need to do.
    All right, sounds good.
    All right, thank you.
    When we got back from Aruba last time,
    you got in touch with John,
    or he got in touch with you.
    What happened?
    When we got back, Gabriel just
    Gabriel put all of his
    stuff out of the house
    and didn't want anything to do with him,
    so they weren't speaking, but
    he called me the next day
    and then convinced John to
    go to the FBI in Sarasota.
    Oh, really? So what did
    the FBI do with all that?
    Well, the chain that the
    process goes through,
    they'll refer it to the
    office that handles Aruba,
    and they'll contact the
    agents in our legal attaché
    will contact the Arubans
    and present it to them as
    part of their investigation,
    and it's up to the Arubans
    to request assistance,
    but there is a process
    that has to be followed.
    I don't know what what prompt him
    I don't know if there's emotional stuff
    going through his mind now,
    but he's wanting to get all this out.
    You know, he's coming down here
    to set the record straight.
    You know, is this another lie?
    Who knows?
    Yeah, he kind of reminds
    me of Joran van der Sloot.
    "Oh, I'm gonna tell the
    truth this time." Lie.
    "Oh, I'll tell the truth this time,"
    and he's following that same pattern.
    You know, I've been through
    this so many times.
    I have my reservations,
    but between John knowing
    the exact drop-off point
    and the forensic expert
    stating that his description
    of the state of the body is accurate,
    and this is something I need
    to follow through to the end
    for my own peace of mind.
    What time they gonna be here? 11:37.
    - 11:37.
    - Yup.
    What's gonna happen next?
    Well, I asked him to
    take me to the scene.
    From there we're going
    to his aunt's house
    where they took the remains.
    He knows there's a cadaver dog here?
    He knows there's gonna be
    one today, I told him.
    That if he lies, then we're gonna know?
    So the three of y'all
    will be going out there?
    All us three, and I've already
    sent an email to the Chief this morning.
    I'm a little unclear on
    I mean, you've described it somewhat,
    but can you give me more detail?
    I'm hoping to figure out
    just what happened there
    at the aunt's house.
    What did they do?
    That's where they destroyed the body.
    So they dug her up after five years
    and then brought her
    back to the back room?
    And I don't mean being
    disrespectful, Dave.
    Took her back and opened the tarp up,
    and van der Sloot beat the
    back of the neck and the head.
    Why don't I leave the room,
    and you explain to her
    in detail so I won't have to
    listen to it again, okay?
    - Sorry, Dave.
    - Yeah.
    - That's all right.
    - Okay.
    Yeah, it's tough.
    He knows his daughter's dead,
    but to hear about what
    happened to her remains
    and what they did to her afterwards,
    no parent should have to hear that.
    I don't need to hear all this
    again and again and again,
    you know?
    If it's real, it's real.
    If it's not, it's not.
    You know, you hear something
    bad happened with Natalee,
    it's something you don't want
    to think about the details,
    but you just don't throw your hands up.
    You know, you've got to check it out,
    and we're still looking,
    and we'll know before
    we leave this island
    whether or not we should
    ever come back again,
    especially on this lead.
    I just texted the Chief of Police
    and told him we'd meet him
    at the church in Oran.
    I hope John tells the truth and
    takes us to the right spot
    and by some chance there's
    still DNA present.
    John's scared as can be
    he's gonna be arrested.
    Gabriel said he had to chase him down,
    and he they almost missed the flight.
    I'll have to see what the Chief feels
    about going in behind
    his aunt's residence.
    It's not on the not
    on the aunt's property,
    then we may be all right.
    Oh, that's Tracy.
    Let Eric and I get out of the car,
    and you all just stay in the car.
    We'll leave it running, okay?
    Oh, boy.
    - Hey, man.
    - Hey, how you doing?
    - Good, how are you?
    - Fine, good, you?
    - I'm T.J.
    - I'm Fred.
    - Good, nice to see you.
    - Hi, how you doing?
    Good to meet you. This is Tracy Sargent.
    - Hi there.
    - Hey, Fred.
    That's the Chief.
    How are you?
    You know, I want I want to
    get it out as much as you do.
    He's, yeah, filming me.
    We're doing a documentary.
    Is that okay?
    So the police chief asked
    to be no recordings or
    anything like that.
    No recording. I'm not sure
    he was looking in the
    car the whole time,
    so I'm not sure if he knew we were there
    or he just had a hunch that
    we were both in the vehicle.
    So essentially what happened was,
    is we rode with T.J. and Eric,
    went straight to the church
    - Oh, church, okay.
    - To meet with the Chief.
    So the Chief was there. Tracy was there.
    Then all of a sudden the
    Chief of Police was like,
    "Listen, is there anyone
    rolling right now?"
    and was like, "Listen, this is serious."
    "Like, if you guys are
    shooting anything right now,
    we'll have you arrested,"
    and that's basically
    when everything kind of
    was like, whoa, so we
    Yeah, so we just turned off everything.
    Tracy came around the car,
    told us that we had to leave.
    Well, I think they don't
    want any filming going on
    because of this current
    investigation, you know?
    It's they don't want
    it out on the news,
    and, you know, and I know what
    happened in the past in 2005.
    They're conditioned to
    think that, you know,
    a lot of s a lot of the news cameras
    and the news media outlets,
    some of them used some of
    those videos against them.
    Right after Natalee's
    disappearance the news media
    attacked the police investigation
    on how they were trying
    to investigate this.
    With all the filming we've been doing
    and the times we've been on the island,
    I think they want to
    quickly resolve this lead
    as soon as possible
    to keep media attention
    away from the island.
    We'll just see. Hopefully
    we can just go back there.
    You know, and get what we need to get.
    Yeah, no, I got it.
    This location that John is showing us
    is in the same cul-de-sac that
    we looked at two weeks ago.
    You go with them.
    The Police Chief asked me
    to actually go up there
    and with the perpetrator
    and look at it myself
    and see if it would be a location
    that would be viable
    for the dog to check.
    Can you show me that location?
    Yeah, this is the area.
    She was in that crevice,
    which it was a mound of
    boulders right here.
    And were you here in 2005, here?
    2010 is when I was here.
    Okay, so when you came back in 2010,
    you came back here with van der Sloot.
    What time of day was that?
    Right before daybreak.
    That's when, yeah, a
    blue tarp was unearthed.
    Anytime we have a perpetrator
    come out to the scene
    and we're able to actually
    meet with them face to face,
    talk with them, it really
    does help out a lot
    because maybe he might say
    something or do something
    that will help us in this case.
    How how confident are you
    that this is the right rock?
    Oh, I'm 100%. I know it
    was under that branch,
    and there was that big rock
    concealing most of the area.
    A ******** artist telling a ****ing lie.
    Who carried her body up here in 2005?
    Him and his dad.
    He was told that Natalee's
    body was carried
    into this wooded area at night.
    The location that he showed us
    was much further
    than a night trek would have been.
    Even someone as small as
    Natalee, that's dead weight.
    It's very heavy to carry.
  16. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Who came up here in 2010
    to remove her remains?
    Joran and I.
    Did it take both of you to carry her out
    or one person or
    Well, John, I just want to assure you
    I'm not trying to trick you at all.
    I'm just trying to find the
    answers like everybody.
    Even though perpetrators do
    horrible things to people,
    you want to still project
    an aura of respect
    because oftentimes they will
    be more receptive to that
    and maybe touch a nerve that,
    "Hey, maybe I should tell the truth
    instead of playing all these games."
    So John, what we're gonna do
    next is go to that cave site
    - Okay, that sounds good.
    - That you described.
    - Okay.
    - So we'll go check there next.
    Yes, sir?
    No. No.
    There's been no activity
    there whatsoever.
    - Hmm.
    - Nope.
    If he was involved,
    is this just little bits
    and pieces of truths,
    or is it just a complete lie?
    That is the big question mark here.
    Hey, we're leaving the scene up here
    - at the cul-de-sac.
    - Okay.
    After going out there with the Chief.
    - Well, what happened?
    - We went out there.
    Even Tracy went out there with
    him with the place he showed,
    and it's impossible for him
    to place a body there.
    Now we're going to the aunt's house
    where they claim that
    they did other things,
    and so we'll see what pans out here,
    and then I'll let you know.
    All right, bye.
    Not good.
    We've gone to the area
    behind his aunt's house
    where he said that they
    burned Natalee's head
    to get rid of the hair.
    He said, "This is where
    we destroyed the body."
    Because it had grown up so much,
    the perpetrator was a little confused
    and just wasn't sure about the area.
    Yeah, it's just
    He described it cave-like.
    It was flat, and it
    came up a little bit,
    and it had a large tree that
    had a huge canopy over it,
    and then on the other side
    was a bowl-shaped type area.
    This has to be it. It has to be.
    How long was the fire burning, John?
    About ten minu I'm
    the hair burnt within seconds,
    but he let it smolder
    for about ten minutes.
    John, what did you guys bring
    to this location exactly?
    Just a backpack, and he had
    the skull in it and
    Just only the skull?
    No, he had a bottle of lighter fluid
    and a bottle of water.
    The areas that we've gone to,
    all of those areas were negative.
    We did not find any physical evidence.
    I think the fire pit was
    under the tree ca
    tree-looking cave type structure
    and not an actual rock
    overhang 'cause that's
    the only thing in a decent
    distance to the house.
    I don't think it was way over there,
    and I would have remembered
    boulders that size.
    I wouldn't have forgot that.
    There were inconsistencies in the story,
    and 'cause he noticed what he
    was stating was not possible,
    and then he changes his story,
    "No, no, I wasn't there."
    So it I mean, there
    were so many holes
    we could shoot in his story that it
    we knew that he was not
    really a credible witness.
    I actually thought that we
    were gonna find something.
    I do believe that he
    is telling the truth.
    We can't prove it because there
    is no physical evidence,
    but did he do it?
    I really honestly, honestly,
    honestly, I do believe it.
    Well, I took it after
    we heard from you guys
    that things didn't look good.
    Well, we went out to the spot.
    Did John and Gabriel go in there?
    Oh, yeah. Well, the Chief came out
    and said there's no way
    that that's the spot.
    Well, let me ask you all this.
    Do you think this is a big con?
    At this point, I don't know.
    - What do you think, Eric?
    - I think, John, in his mind
    does he truly believe what he's saying?
    Yeah. It kind of surprises me
    that he goes this far with the police.
    The conversation that John
    had with the Police Chief,
    "If you'll give me immunity,
    I'll show you and tell you everything."
    But why would you plead
    immunity to show him that?
    Is it for publicity or just
    the thrill of being arrested
    or to prove to Gabriel
    that he was a part of it,
    and, "I'm being truthful about it",
    "so keep supporting me," you know?
    It's just which one of
    them do you want to believe?
    It's not the outcome that
    we were hoping for today.
    I guess we're just gonna have
    to pack our bags and go home.
    You know, you just go home
    and move on with life,
    like we've tried to for
    the last 12 years.
    The lead was pursued to the end,
    and it'll sting for a while
    like it always does, but you know,
    you prepare yourself for
    that disappointment
    over 12 years of disappointments.
    We got our tickets,
    and we're on our way.
    This is the last time,
    John, the very last time.
    Oh, I know.
    We're getting closer
    and closer by the day.
    - Yeah.
    - Let's bring Natalee home.
    I'm gonna get you.
    You sure you went
    you sure you went
    - What is that?
    - That's a bird, dude.
    I know it's along this stretch.
    I had some dirt thrown over it.
    Maybe I will need the shovel.
    This is kind of hard for me right now.
    Yeah, I mean, I used to catch
    snakes and **** like that,
    Yeah, but this is, um
    And it just got
    This time John's story is,
    is that after he and Joran
    crushed up the bones,
    they put them in a box
    along with dog bones,
    mixed them together,
    and buried them in the pet cemetery.
    John held back a few of the
    pieces as a prize, so to speak.
    John has told us a number of lies.
    I don't know what to think.
    I don't even want to go there
    at this point in time,
    because I don't know if I
    can handle it anymore.
  17. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, here it is.
    So what about the other two?
    You can't determine whether
    they're human or not human
    unless you do a DNA test on them,
    and that's gonna take several weeks.
    What are you all gonna do with
    them after you test them?
    'Cause I think T.J. wants to
    take legal action against them.
    I still can't prove
    beyond a reasonable doubt
    that John isn't lying,
    so I'm gonna go ahead and
    search the pet cemetery,
    obtain those bones and have them tested
    to finally put this to rest.
    - Hey, Dave Holloway.
    - Hey, how are you doing?
    Good. How are you? How was your trip?
    Oh, just like everything else, long.
    Well, I can't believe we're here again.
    - Where we going?
    - I thought we'd go ahead
    and look at this pet cemetery,
    kind of have an idea of
    what we're talking about.
    Check this out.
    - What the hell is that?
    - Somebody dug out a hole.
    - Tire tracks.
    - Four-wheeler tracks.
    That's interesting.
    And they've dug a grave
    or excavated a grave.
    That's really, really weird.
    And here's some potholes dug up here.
    If somebody came out
    here looking with a dog,
    they would dig down in the ground
    a little bit to aerate the soil,
    and that's what they've
    done on this mound.
    That's kind of suspicious.
    Why would somebody dig a hole here
    and not put anything in it?
    And then I got to noticing
    some of the ground effects and potholes
    and four-wheeler tracks
    and where they led,
    and there's always that
    in the back in your mind,
    the suspicion of doubt, you know?
    What the heck is going on here?
    I mean, what are the chances?
    You have the suspicion that, you know,
    the bones were not checked,
    and that was very, very
    bothersome for me,
    is, you know, you put your
    trust in them to, you know,
    do at least a DNA test on them,
    and then you come to find
    out they didn't do a report
    or anything on them,
    and then you walk up on that, a
    fresh hole dug in the ground.
    Richardson and the police team,
    may have decided that
    they would go ahead
    and search that pet cemetery,
    is what I'm thinking.
    - Think they dug something up?
    - I don't know.
    That's a good question.
    But it's awful suspicious to me.
    We're going to meet with.
    Chief Richardson and his team
    to discuss the bones that were
    turned in to him by Gabriel
    several weeks ago.
    They had indicated they were non-human.
    Even though the Arubans
    seem willing to help,
    I've always had my doubts about them
    because of their past track record,
    so, you know, it was something
    that we wanted to do
    just you know, just erase that doubt.
    What are you thinking?
    I was just thinking about the bones.
    Now that they have the
    bones, why did they
    why didn't they take them in for that?
    I mean, I don't know.
    How's he gonna know
    what they're talking about
    if he hasn't sat them down?
    All's he's gotten is what we told him.
    I just think they're afraid
    to take two Americans
    in custody right now
    'cause it's gonna be all over the news.
    I guess where we want to back up first
    is when John and Gabriel, my informant,
    showed up here without us knowing it.
    I was real surprised that
    you didn't bring them in
    and sit them down and question them.
    You base your investigation
    on leads that are credible
    or it just will be a waste
    of manpower and resources.
    We have a guy coming in saying,
    "I was involved with Natalee Holloway.
    I know "maybe he hasn't
    taken us to the right place",
    but the mere fact he's
    claiming he had a relationship
    with Joran van der Sloot in 2010.
    We've confirmed he was here.
    Even if he did help, what
    we need is evidence.
    He said, "These are the
    bones of Natalee."
    He presented us that, and it was bogus.
    It I mean, it's not even human bone,
    so for me it's John Ludwig is
    he's not a credible source.
    Now, what about the bones?
    They all came out to be animal bones.
    What kind of animal was it? Do you know?
    Just animal bones.
    - Okay.
    - Not human bones.
    Is there any reports or
    anything you can give us
    about the bones?
    No, you're not law enforcement.
    We don't just give reports
    out to third party.
    Can we can we look
    at them, the bones?
    We've got to get any question of doubt.
    Can we get them the bones?
    Can we get that?
    - Yeah?
    - Okay.
    This is what was handed to us.
    The Aruban police are saying
    these bones are animal bones,
    but they haven't had
    those bones long enough
    to have them properly tested,
    so, you know, I have my doubts,
    and I think what I will do is
    have the bones tested myself
    to make sure that they are nonhuman
    or exactly what they are.
    Look, if John Ludwig did
    hand over evidence to us
    and that happened to be human bones,
    he would have been
    arrested, believe you me.
    We will send an army to pick him up.
    Just to be clear on that.
    He's not my concern.
    Natalee is my concern.
    Did you all go out to the pet cemetery?
    Yes, we set up an surveillance,
    and we looked at the whole charade.
    He had no idea where he was.
    He was moving up and down.
    He couldn't pinpoint
    - He couldn't pinpoint
    - A specific site.
    We went out there yesterday, and we
    I walked it,
    and I got to the very
    end near the cliffs,
    and I noticed a big hole dug out.
    You know, if somebody digs a hole,
    they're gonna put the
    dog in it right then.
    Judging from the size of that hole,
    that is something else.
    That's not for a dog.
    Yeah, it's fresh, too.
    You see the tire tracks.
    I didn't want to say that,
    but that more looks like
    a drug smuggling action, yeah.
    What concerned me was how
    quickly they gave a response.
    The response immediately from
    them was it was where drugs
    were buried on the beach,
    covered back up, and
    then dug back out again,
    and I know that there might
    not be anything to it,
    but it's really
    coincidental that you find
    an uncovered dug-out grave
    at the pet cemetery.
    We're going to solve this
    case one of these days.
    Because it's an ongoing investigation,
    we're not we cannot
    reveal everything,
    but let's put it like this.
    We obtain a lot of information
    and have a lot of information,
    and we didn't give up.
    What are your plans with the bones?
    I know you and I talked about us
    taking and having those bones analyzed.
    We didn't have no problem with that.
    Just we're trying to
    safeguard your case.
    - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
    - Yeah.
    But if you're not going to
    press any charges, you can
    I will gladly give
    hand you the bones.
    You'll take care of that.
    If I retrieved those bones,
    I was told by the Aruban authorities
    I could not use those in
    a criminal investigation
    or a fraud charge against John
    because T.J. and I are
    not law enforcement.
    But that was not really my
    concern at that point in time
    because how did you determine
    they were nonhuman?
    I need to know, and I never
    got a clear answer on that.
    So I hand it over,
    which means you cannot use it
    in court anymore, yeah, okay.
    You know, I thought, well, they're
    they probably are nonhuman.
    They probably are animal bones,
    but he's created a little bit
    of a doubt now that in my mind
    I don't believe him, and so we got them
    and I've got the bones.
    Now I can have them tested.
    I'm gonna move forward until
    we know for sure, 100%.
    Yeah, we're outside of Washington, D.C.,
    and we're going to Dr.
    Jason Kolowski's office
    and hopefully get some good results
    about the bones that
    were found in Aruba.
    I'll be honest with you, I
    don't have my hopes up high.
    - We'll see.
  18. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    - Oh, I know you don't.
    - Ready?
    - Yeah, let's go.
    - T.J.
    - Hey, Jason.
    - Good to see you again.
    - Good to see you.
    - How you doing?
    - Good. How are you?
    - Good. Please have a seat.
    - Hey Jason, how are you doing?
    - Hi, Jason Kolowski.
    - Hey, Jason, Dave Holloway.
    - Nice to meet you, sir.
    - Welcome.
    Well, as you know, we
    received some bone samples.
    T.J. recovered them from
    the Aruban authorities,
    and he sent them to me,
    and I've arranged some
    testing for those samples
    to be done at the laboratory
    here in Virginia,
    which is why we called you up today.
    As you know, we received
    these four bone samples.
    All four of these bone samples
    went to the laboratory.
    They were cleaned. They were weighed.
    They weighed about 2.5 grams,
    which was well within the
    range for that laboratory
    to test these bone samples.
    They ground these samples
    down to a fine powder,
    and then they carried out a
    chemical extraction process
    to see if they could remove any DNA
    from these biological bone samples.
    When we attempted to
    measure the nuclear DNA,
    the actual DNA that makes
    us us, that was negative.
    These samples didn't
    have any nuclear DNA.
    It was retested again
    and still negative.
    At that point we made
    an executive decision
    to move on to try some
    mitochondrial DNA testing.
    Are you familiar with mitochondrial DNA?
    - No.
    - All right,
    mitochondrial DNA is really,
    really unique stuff.
    It's inherited maternally,
    so it's passed from mother to daughters
    and from daughters to sons,
    but sons never pass it
    on past that point.
    So we decided to take a look
    at some of these mitochondria
    that were within the bone samples.
    When we actually took the DNA extract
    and ran it through this
    screening process,
    it came back positive.
    It came back human.
    - You got to be kidding me.
    - No, I'm not.
    When we actually took
    the DNA extract
    and ran it through this
    screening process,
    it came back positive.
    It came back human.
    - You got to be kidding me.
    - No, I'm not.
    You say those are human bones.
    There is human DNA in
    these bone samples, yes.
    As to which one of the four
    is human or all of them,
    that's where some additional testing
    is gonna need to be done.
    So these are human bones, or human DNA.
    There's human mitochondrial
    DNA in these bones.
    And that, I think, is
    fairly significant.
    Yeah, I wasn't expecting this.
    And there's even a more
    interesting aspect here.
    So the test we ran right
    now is designed to screen
    in a very broad way,
    just look to see if there's
    any human mitochondria there,
    but it's really interesting
    because not only does it align perfectly
    to our standard reference
    sequence that we use in mito,
    there are no differences
    to the reference sequence.
    The reference sequence
    was actually built
    on a European Caucasian DNA sequence.
    The fact here is that that's
    the that's the ancestry
    that we're questioning.
    [EXHALES] Yeah, you
    caught me by surprise.
    I never expected this.
    All of these dominos are
    tipping over the right way,
    telling us that we need
    to proceed forward
    with some testing.
    There's a possibility, though,
    that this could be somebody else.
    There is.
    Let me take a few minutes
    to digest all this stuff.
    I understand.
    Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
    I ain't believing this.
    - Huh?
    - I ain't believing this, T.J.
    I wasn't ready for this. This is huge.
    Yeah, it still could not be
    it could be somebody else's,
    and sheesh.
    I'm shocked.
    I'd I expected to come
    here and hear the same thing
    that I heard from Dolfi
    and that they were
    nonhuman and animal bones,
    and I fully expected that, you know,
    John planted those bones,
    and then I even now,
    right now I'm thinking,
    "Okay, but they're
    somebody else's bones."
    Sheesh. I am not believing this.
    Those dirty bunch in Aruba.
    Well, we know that. We
    knew that since '05.
    When the Prime Minister
    made that statement,
    it got back to me that they can't
    afford to find the body
    a dead body on this island,
    and they've done every damn thing
    they could do to cover this up.
    Well, the plan's over now.
    And then I started getting a little
    pissed off, I guess,
    and I see all these things
    that you didn't see
    from the very beginning that
    you see when you look back.
    You know, I can't think of all of them,
    but the list goes on,
    and now
    several people need to be concerned.
    I'd rather not say at
    this point in time.
    You probably know what
    I'm talking about.
    What do we need to do?
    A simple oral swab from Beth
    could be submitted to the laboratory,
    and they will just use it
    as a reference sample.
    - Okay.
    - We have a potential
    to now test these
    this bone sequence,
    the mitochondrial DNA sequence
    against Natalee's mother
    and perhaps even make a match there.
    There's still avenues
    in which this testing
    is going to yield a result
    that may not be Natalee,
    but there's definitely pointers
    in the direction right now
    that tell us that there is a
    possibility it could be her,
    so we should do this testing.
    We absolutely should
    test these bone samples
    and find out the truth.
    Now the big decision
    does have to be made
    'cause unfortunately,
    the remaining testing will
    consume the remaining samples.
    - Yeah, that's fine.
    - Okay.
    As soon as I have that information,
    you'll have those reports.
    - Thank you.
    - You're very welcome.
    - Well
    - Yeah.
    - Thank you very much.
    - No problem.
    - I appreciate it.
    - Mr. Holloway, pleasure.
    - Thank you very much. Yeah.
    - Good luck. Nice to meet you.
    T.J., always. Okay.
    - Thanks, man.
    - Thanks, Jason.
    I'm not gonna believe it until
    the final test is done.
    I can't believe this.
    And I'll be on pins and
    needles until that test
    is determined one way
    or the other, I'm sure.
    Now, as you're well aware,
    Beth submitted a DNA swab
    for comparative testing.
    This is a graphic representation
    of the sequencing work that
    we did on Beth's sample,
    and so what we're looking at here
    is the comparison of Beth's
    profile against the profile
    that we already had from
    the combined bones.
    - Okay.
    - As of right now,
    we have the results of that sample.
    We were expecting one of three outcomes.
    That there would be a match,
    that there would be some
    level of inconclusiveness,
    or that there would be a full exclusion.
    We're not seeing the match,
    but I am not prepared to call
    this a full exclusion yet,
    and I need to explain to you why.
    I don't feel right now against
    just this combined bone
    profile that it's a match.
    Comfortably, this is still inconclusive
    because there could be
    these underlying profiles
    from the one of the other bones
    that we're just not seeing come through.
    The combined bone sample
    sequence is not a match
    to Beth Holloway's mitochondrial DNA.
    And in your reports you'll see
    we cut each of those bones
    in half, as we had discussed.
    We sent the halves of
    each of the four bones
    to a laboratory,
    and then they combined those together.
    So by combining all
    four samples together,
    you would expect there to be an
    equal amount of contribution
    from all four bones,
    but we do also know
    that some of the bones
    were slightly bigger
    than the other ones.
    Those differences right
    there might have been
    contributing different amounts
    of mitochondrial DNA into the sample.
    By testing those bones now individually,
    we'll know for sure.
    We can make the assumption
    that at least one of those
    samples that was turned
    over to us is not Natalee.
    If one of them comes
    forward and comes through
    in the testing and shows to be her,
    then it's Natalee and
    an unknown individual,
    and that's really not likely.
    But this profile right here,
    it's not a match to Beth.
    It's somebody else.
    So we're not at a total
    loss in the investigation.
    We know it's somebody human.
    One of these bones is definitely human.
    - We know that.
    - Okay.
    And if not three, four of the bones.
    You know, they all could be.
    We just have to have a couple
    more pieces of information,
    and then I can give you
    the truth of the matter.
    How does that how
    long does that take?
    Right now phyto-mito testing
    on those four bones
    is scheduled to be done October 6th.
    This laboratory is working as fast
    as they humanly can to get
    these bone samples done.
    - Well, there's a process.
    - There's a process.
    I know it's slow,
    and I know it seems like
    it's being dragged out,
    but at the end of the
    day it's being done
    the best way it possibly can.
    Should the results yield anything,
    anything that can help us out,
    you're going to have a
    rock-solid, airtight database
    to be able to move forward with.
    Coming in today, I was
    middle of the road,
    prepared that it's not and
    reluctant that they were
    because I want to see a DNA sample.
    All right, Jason, appreciate it.
    But there's a slight chance,
    I'd say slim chance that they are,
    but like I said,
    I've got to see a string
    of DNA that matches,
    and until I see that,
    you're just not gonna
    get your hopes up high.
    Hey, Robin, you want to look at this
    these reports?
    Yeah. You finally got them in, huh?
    This is Jason's report on the DNA.
    I'm sure Aruba would like
    to have a copy of that
    to put it in their trash can.
    They're human bones,
    and they're from either
    Natalee or somebody else,
    and basically, it's inconclusive.
    So he wouldn't he wouldn't know
    until October the 6th that
    until they see DNA on each
    each individual bone,
    so that's where they're at now, so
    So more waiting, huh?
  19. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    I know we'll meet her again one day,
    and we'll know the truth.
    It's been 12 years,
    and our life has been put on hold,
    and it's time to get our life back.
    What if it's not Natalee?
    Well, if it's not Natalee,
    it's somebody else,
    and I think that and
    I've said this before,
    John has so had somebody's
    bones on that island,
    and either the Aruban police or
    the FBI's got to get involved.
    I mean, something's got to give.
    I mean, you just can't
    just have human remains
    and no one do anything.
    I mean, I'm I wish I could do more,
    but I mean, one of those two agencies
    has got to get in got to get involved
    or either the Dutch have got to
    get control of the situation.
    Somebody's got to investigate it.
    There very well could be
    another family out there
    that is missing a loved one
    whose bones that those belong to.
    It's very, very important for
    somebody to do an investigation
    to get down to the bottom
    of how did you come up
    with these human remains,
    and whose are they?
    They're gonna have to man up
    and they're gonna have to
    If it's not her, are you going to stop?
    What do you mean stop?
    - Just stop.
    - Stop what?
    Looking for Natalee?
    I think our I think
    this is probably
    probably the end.
    I mean, we've searched
    all of the island.
    We've just about had every
    lead that's possible.
    I don't know that there's anything else
    we can physically do.
    You know, you'd like to get
    finally get justice,
    but unfortunately, it may not happen.
    I guess from Natalee's perspective,
    she'd probably say,
    "Yeah, you done enough."
    You know, a lot of people
    say, "Well, you just need"
    to forget about it and move on."
    Well, you can't do that. I can't do it.
    I just can't.
    So October the 6th we'll know for sure.
    We'll just have to wait and see, so
    "Disappearance of Natalee Holloway,"
  20. Barb Wire

    Barb Wire Active Member

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    First Thank You Tadpole12 your amazing
    <Snip from above>
    We can make the assumption
    that at least one of those
    samples that was turned
    over to us is not Natalee.
    If one of them comes
    forward and comes through
    in the testing and shows to be her,
    then it's Natalee and
    an unknown individual,
    and that's really not likely.
    But this profile right here,
    it's not a match to Beth.
    It's somebody else.
    So we're not at a total
    loss in the investigation.
    We know it's somebody human.
    One of these bones is definitely human.
    - We know that.
    - Okay.
    And if not three, four of the bones.
    You know, they all could be.
    We just have to have a couple
    more pieces of information,
    and then I can give you
    the truth of the matter.
    How does that how
    long does that take?
    Right now phyto-mito testing
    on those four bones
    is scheduled to be done October 6th.
    Who else did they kill? or put in that bag

    I wonder if it was human but just not Natalee's bone?

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