ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 9

[LambChop]

Let's not forget it was GG that said they were both sober. It was the server that said she appeared woosie. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Gardner’s boyfriend Richard Forester said at the time the two fought over Gardner’s use of alcohol.

“We had our arguments, we had our fights,” Forester says, acknowledging Gardner and he had a turbulent relationship.

“I told her I thought she drank to much um but she was an adult and she was always with me so I thought I could protect,” her, Forester said.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/0...nts-expected-in-robyn-gardner-case-65872.html

I'd not seen this before, maybe she did have a drinking problem - which means she likely was drinking that day. Maybe she did take an ambien, as Giordano said:

Giordano told investigators Gardner took one of the pills in the afternoon. Later that day, he maintains Gardner disappeared while snorkeling.

Knowing she took an ambien in the afternoon, why would he even entertain going snorkeling unless he intended for her to have an accident? Why would he turn around later and say they were a sober couple?

Robyn having a drinking problem, if true, and her "lifestyle" have nothing to do with Giordano's homicidal negligence. Robyn didn't deserve to die anymore than a woman wearing hoochie shorts in a bar deserves to be raped.

 

[vlpate]

I would like to make something very clear

I really have not taken a side
I like to debate all points, for and against
I do try to do it in a respectful way unless i feel I am being unfairly targeted because of my opinions, like last night with Canmaneh's comments

I am not on anyone side
I am on the side of truth and whatever that truth is, is fine with me

It would be counterproductive if we all came here and agreed with everything other posters say

It is a debate based on opinions

Thats the Reality of it

I agree with all but this a "debate". Sometimes, of course, it becomes a debate when meting out a point, otherwise, we're sleuthing and fact finding, all on the same side as you, the side of the truth :fence:

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Na'h you can talk to them in their sober moments and it does make a difference, once they realise their situation, thats how groups like AA do their work, and very good work too, turning peoples lives around, any social worker would tell you that!!.

Saracen,

Thank you for your very thoughtful post!:tyou:

 

[LambChop]

I believe there were 3 fishermen altogether. The first was reported when LE took a statement that evening from one of the fishermen. His statement was he saw them leave and did not see them the rest of the day.

Then we heard from Mr. Silva who claimed LE did not interview him. That he saw them leave in the car after walking for a few minutes. He then saw GG at the time he called LE.

Last reported fisherman was from T. Stein who said in an interview that they had heard a fisherman in a boat had seen them but they had not yet interviewed him. Later we see a video of the boat fisherman and a report that LE interviewed him and he stated that he saw them walking and then leave in the car shortly afterwards around 4.

That would be three who all have the same story and the links are all on this thread.

When the FBI does a profile on a suspect the things they look for is an aggressive, abusive personality. This type of person rarely changes their behavior but becomes more and more abusive as time goes on which means he will meet up with those who will resist the abuse eventually. Not many people prefer to be a punching bag. Clearly from the reports with other women he has dated recently his behavior was becoming more and more aggressive and dangerous.

Two things are very important to consider. One, his background behavior in the past. And two, the fact that her body was never found where he claims she could have drowned. jmo

Abusive Relationships:
http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abuse_rel_types.htm

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Not to get too far O/T but I want to know 'Who" said the "meetings" have to happen.
I stopped drinking 2 yrs ago this month (6 plus beers) a day. over 25 yrs, I have not been to one meeting. I have some friends that say I was not an alcoholic because I didn't have to go to meetings, really? Oh and I stopped smoking the month after that,it was harder.

Where all addicted to something, if all that Robyn did outside of work,involved drinking, then she had a problem. It's the drinking with meds that she should have known not to do.

Elley Mae,

I must take a minute and congratulate you on your 2 years of SOBRIETY!
It is not just a word it is a "new life", and a goal of epic proportion for the few who have the courage to admit they are an "alcoholic". People who are not alcoholics will never understand the strength and commitment it takes to be in "recovery". So from one "recovering" alcoholic to another in recovery " you are a very special person with a will of iron and may you obtain all the things you richly deserve in this "New" life. WELL DONE!!

I too gave up smoking, but unlike you had to wait a year before I could even think about it. I smoked 3 packs a day, ouch!
I have been a recovering alcoholic for 27 years, and believe me your life will only get better with sobriety. By the way you are absolutely right about AA. They are a wonderful organization, but not mandatory to get sober. I think I went to 3 meetings and never went back . To each his own, right?

 

[Saracen]

I would like to make something very clear

I really have not taken a side
I like to debate all points, for and against
I do try to do it in a respectful way unless i feel I am being unfairly targeted because of my opinions, like last night with Canmaneh's comments

I am not on anyone side
I am on the side of truth and whatever that truth is, is fine with me

It would be counterproductive if we all came here and agreed with everything other posters say

It is a debate based on opinions

Thats the Reality of it

Keep finding those links Dushi at least they are useful posts and contributions:seeya:

 

[Saracen]

Elley Mae,

I must take a minute and congratulate you on your 2 years of SOBRIETY!
It is not just a word it is a "new life", and a goal of epic proportion for the few who have the courage to admit they are an "alcoholic". People who are not alcoholics will never understand the strength and commitment it takes to be in "recovery". So from one "recovering" alcoholic to another in recovery " you are a very special person with a will of iron and may you obtain all the things you richly deserve in this "New" life. WELL DONE!!

I too gave up smoking, but unlike you had to wait a year before I could even think about it. I smoked 3 packs a day, ouch!
I have been a recovering alcoholic for 27 years, and believe me your life will only get better with sobriety. By the way you are absolutely right about AA. They are a wonderful organization, but not mandatory to get sober. I think I went to 3 meetings and never went back . To each his own, right?

Congratulations to you too RU, i know its a bit OT, but just goes to show you that with the right support either AA or drug rehab anything is possible..

 

[Saracen]

I agree with all but this a "debate". Sometimes, of course, it becomes a debate when meting out a point, otherwise, we're sleuthing and fact finding, all on the same side as you, the side of the truth :fence:

Debate without personal attacks is what this forum should be about, there is always two sides to a story which can and should be discussed in an ADULT and respectfull way. JMO

 

[neesaki]

According to the family, she was was a sneaky drinker. Maybe she was a functional alcoholic that normally took ambien during the day and topped it up with a shot or two of vodka. That would mean that she had poor judgment, possibly poor enough to get into dangerous waters and drown even though she was reputed to be a strong swimmer. Personally, I don't equate a drunk person with someone having common sense ... so I don't see how taking ambien and having a few drinks would mean she didn't plan to go into the water. Drunks are spontaneous, foolish and think they are invincible, meaning more likely to throw caution to the wind.

I agree that drinking and/or drugs impair one's judgment. But GG claims they were snorkeling, not just swimming. That is a different ballgame imo. I can see someone in that condition maybe going in the water just to swim, but snorkeling is a more focused activity. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

Plus, by all accounts I've heard, it was too late in the day to see anything in the water. So why go snorkeling at all. jmo

 

[neesaki]

Why would she have a prescription if she didn't regularly take the medication?

Where does the part about GG slipping her a pill come from? She had the prescription, so no one needed to slip her her own medication ... she was doing that.

Her family is quoted in witness statements as saying that she was sneaking drinks.

Originally Posted by redheadedgal

why would she take a pill like that during the day? again, doesn't make sense.

Ambien is a hypnotic medication prescribed for sleep. We don't know that Robyn used it for anything other than that purpose.

GG is the one who has not been able to adequately explain why he purchased a 1.5 mill dollar insurance policy on Robyn with him as beneficiary. That's because there is no good or reasonable explanation for doing so. imo.

Which, along with his unexplainable and inexcusable behavior during and following his "drowning" story, makes him look like an incredible liar.

And, makes him look incredibly guilty as well, which leads one to believe that he may well have been the one who slipped a sleeping pill in her drink.

The insurance policy coupled with his long history of being a known abuser, liar, thief, and con man, say a lot, that he was very possibly already contemplating doing something to Robyn.

Whether he was able to accomplish it or not was dependent on whether he could set up the right situation and circumstances, i.e: Robyn impaired by alcohol/drugs, alleged snorkeling in an alleged dangerous location,etc.

And then, he had to have an actual location where there were no witnesses to where he committed his actual crime. Well, he drove around for two days looking, and looks like he found it. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Debate without personal attacks is what this forum should be about, there is always two sides to a story which can and should be discussed in an ADULT and respectfull way. JMO

I agree .... have I insulted you, or is this about something else?

 

[vlpate]

Na'h you can talk to them in their sober moments and it does make a difference, once they realise their situation, thats how groups like AA do their work, and very good work too, turning peoples lives around, any social worker would tell you that!!.

Alcoholics, by definition, are powerless to stop or control their drinking without serious help. Go to an AA meeting and see if you can find a single alcoholic who quit because someone had a heart to heart with them.

Alcoholism is a disease, problem drinking is not. The very fact that someone can put down the bottle on the first try, and never look back is proof they were not an alcoholic. The exact same goes with cigarettes - there's a difference between habit and addiction.

Back on topic - Does anyone recall how many bottles of Vodka GG and RG bought for and during the trip? They didn't spend a lot of time in the room, so where were they drinking?

 

[vlpate]

Well I don't know about Saracen, but you haven't made any friends with any "drunk" or "alcoholic" here. Take another look at your "eloquent" statements on that subject.

The father of my daughter, was an alcoholic RK, he died working out on a treadmill at Gold's Gym after another 16 hour drinking binge. My daughter was 12. I know a thing or two about the devastating effects alcoholism can have on the lives of family members and friends. I attended Al-anon meetings and begged him to get help. I took his daughter away from him, he lost multiple jobs, he had 2 DWI's and lost friends. Yet, he didn't think he had a problem, the bottle controlled him, he didn't have control over the bottle - that's the ugly truth of the disease. Death, at the age of 45 was all that stopped him.

I don't find anything funny about alcoholism, and I AM offended by anyone who would make light of alcoholism by saying a simple heart to heart changes the life of an alcoholic. Education about the disease is the first step to understanding it.

 

[thumbtack]

Thank you for sharing this, vlpate. I'm very sorry you & your daughter had to go through this.

Your posts are among the best on this thread - very reasonable & well thought out.

 

[LambChop]

Alcoholics, by definition, are powerless to stop or control their drinking without serious help. Go to an AA meeting and see if you can find a single alcoholic who quit because someone had a heart to heart with them.

Alcoholism is a disease, problem drinking is not. The very fact that someone can put down the bottle on the first try, and never look back is proof they were not an alcoholic. The exact same goes with cigarettes - there's a difference between habit and addiction.

Back on topic - Does anyone recall how many bottles of Vodka GG and RG bought for and during the trip? They didn't spend a lot of time in the room, so where were they drinking?

According to the hotel records GG purchased a liter bottle of vodka the first day. No reports if he purchased a bottle outside, and he could have as it would have been much cheaper.

I would think we all know someone, in our family, a friend, co-worker, etc. in our lives who has a problem with alcohol. Most of these people are in our lives because we love them but they have to be willing to help themselves. Kudos to those who do. But as far as RG is concerned, we just do not know how much she actually consumed that day because, afterall she was on vacation. jmo

 

[Saracen]

I agree .... have I insulted you, or is this about something else?

Have i said that you or anyone else has insulted me?.. Nobody should have personal remarks or acusations made about or to them. We all know what this is about, we are sleuths are we not,:seeya: rocket science is not required...

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

The father of my daughter, was an alcoholic RK, he died working out on a treadmill at Gold's Gym after another 16 hour drinking binge. My daughter was 12. I know a thing or two about the devastating effects alcoholism can have on the lives of family members and friends. I attended Al-anon meetings and begged him to get help. I took his daughter away from him, he lost multiple jobs, he had 2 DWI's and lost friends. Yet, he didn't think he had a problem, the bottle controlled him, he didn't have control over the bottle - that's the ugly truth of the disease. Death, at the age of 45 was all that stopped him.

I don't find anything funny about alcoholism, and I AM offended by anyone who would make light of alcoholism by saying a simple heart to heart changes the life of an alcoholic. Education about the disease is the first step to understanding it.

Vlpate,

I am sincerely sorry you have had first hand experience with someone you loved succumbing to alcoholism. You are to be admired for you wisdom in attending Al-anon and for raiseing your daughter with a healthy respect for "alcohol"...it's temptations and the repercussions. Sadley death is the only way out for some.

However , you never could wrap your head around the mind of your husband, am I right? I say that because it really does take one to know one. From the sounds of your posts, I can see a great deal of bitterness, and lord knows that is part of the equation of life with an alcoholic.

You are absolutely right there is nothing funny about alcoholism, albiet you make jokes about it. That is something I didn't understand, even more so now.

May I say you are entitled to be "offended" by any comment, but Saracen was comming from a "good place" in stating his belief. I AM an alcoholic and was not in the least bit offended. I actually acknowledged his kindness and insight. For someone to have gone thru what you and your family have , it is hard to find forgivenss with the life you had to endure . Perhaps it is the bitterness you still feel that makes Saracens statement offensive.

My comments stand--but I do see them from your point of view.
I am very sorry, the recent discussion must have been difficult for you. May you and your daughter continue to heal. It will take time.

Sincerely,
RK

 

[vlpate]

In the US, if GG admitted, as he has, that Robyn was drinking and had taken an ambien that afternoon - he could be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Robyn had a responsibility not to go snorkeling after taking a sleeping pill and drinking, but Giordano had a duty not to let her. It's not like he chased her down to keep her from going in - he went in with her.

 

[katydid23]

According to the hotel records GG purchased a liter bottle of vodka the first day. No reports if he purchased a bottle outside, and he could have as it would have been much cheaper.

I would think we all know someone, in our family, a friend, co-worker, etc. in our lives who has a problem with alcohol. Most of these people are in our lives because we love them but they have to be willing to help themselves. Kudos to those who do. But as far as RG is concerned, we just do not know how much she actually consumed that day because, afterall she was on vacation. jmo

A liter of Vodka seems like quite a bit of alcohol for two people. How long was their trip?