Assembly Line Machines for Panties

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Eagle1, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Former Member

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    Question: What are the odds that any assembly line worker would be holding one of the many Wed. pairs up to his mouth like a tissue when innocently sneezing?

    If we've ever watched assembly line packaging, for instance on the food channel when they make cookies, etc., complicated machines applying the finishing touches and then wrapping the millions of packages of product, it's hard to imagine any employee inspecting the crotch of one pair (quality control?) and putting it back into the precisely-spaced line, that would by some very very strange coincidence end up in a murder in the United States.
    What are the odds of that happening?

    I've asked a version of this question in another thread, which didn't have many responses so it may not get noticed there.

    Anyone had any experience in a garment factory? Do the individual pairs ever get touched by any employee?
     
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  3. angelwngs

    angelwngs New Member

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    I'm with you Eagle... and didn't an 'expert, using that term lightly, say that a new pair of size 12 bloomies were tested which resulted in the exact same foreign DNA found in the ones found on JBR? I know I heard this on TV in the past 2 weeks, (for what that is worth...).

    Last night, I reread many items at acandyrose and found a couple of answers to several questions which were bugging me... Below are personal conclusions to my questions:

    1. In list of items taken from the home- 7 pair of child's underware/bloomies/panties (whatever term floats your boat) were removed from home and taken as evidence. (possibly the rest of the package of Bloomingdales size 12)

    2. In interviews- transcripts- Access to home on evening of Dec 25 from returning from White's party and delivery of gifts after party was gained by the R's by electronic garage door opener. "Metal door" entering home locked or unlocked? answer...garage door down, metal door possibly unlocked... (This is pushing the intruder theory, but possibility exists: intruder could slide in as car entered garage, hides under the car as it parks until family enters and settles, enters home through unlocked interior metal 'unlocked' garage door.

    3. In interviews- Question asked- What people received keys to your home? Answer older chilodren, cleaning lady, the B____???___ who were neighbors, etc. 2 keys given to the B___???___ neighbors after they 'lost"' one. John was not aware of key at neighbors to be used in case of lock out by family. (It takes about 5 minutes to have a key made at any hardware store and occasionaly at gas stations as well... As far as intruder theory goes: All evidence of forced entry are virtually worthless with this many keys to home floating around out there.)

    4. In interview- Patsy with apparent ease steps over the RN on stairs and turns back to read it. "IF" this is true, the 'intruder' could have also done the same. The note could have been placed on stairs prior to entering JBR's room and simply avoided on retrun trip downstairs.

    5.In interview- Disturbance of dustruffle in JAR's room could easily have been the result of PR using that room to pack certain suitcases for cruise on 29th (? her birthday/date/?)

    6. In interview- Items in front of trainroom door could have been moved by intruder to slow down family who 'had' awaken early as he was exiting...if he was stupid enough to go out a window instead of a door.

    7. From 3 above...'metal door'.... (If metal door, it's a good chance that there was also a 'metal frame' . A child's head rammed accidently into a metal door frame as she was carried into a house from a garage would certainly do some serious damage, in my opinion.)
     
  4. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Former Member

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    So, the question would be was this testing just another "bungling" , for the same whatever reason that the phone records and other parts of the investigation were bungled? Because, can you imagine any assembly line worker sneezing on every pair, and just the crotch of each pair, or even on the equipment, and it just getting in the crotch of all the panties? They'd say probably that it was all over each pair and they just didn't test except the crotch areas, right?

    I'm sticking to just this question except your #6 comment, (So true, it'd be incredibly stupid to leave by a window) because most everything else has been discussed in other threads and I think this about the panty DNA is important. I'm beginning to think it's just more bungling. And that there's got to be another reason other than the Rs' wealth. Other wealthy people in this nation have been prosecuted for murders and all sorts of things. There's just got to be more to that, don't you think? I'm afraid this goes on the list with why the plane wasn't ready, why the phone records couldn't be obtained by LE, etc.

    Question remains what are the odds of this happening and ending up at a murder scene, and had this "expert" worked in a garment factory in the country where these panties originated? Men don't usually sneeze that much, and in fact, wouldn't the workers be mostly women? But this DNA is definitely male. Just trying to get at the truth. Thanks for your reply.
     
  5. angelwngs

    angelwngs New Member

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    I am fighting an image of a Saturday night LIve skit showing a hundred 12 year old sweat shop workers licking the crotch of every new pair panties as their 'duty' on the Bloomingdales Bloomers Assembly line! ;)
     
  6. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    Yepp, tell that to LS and his supporters, it's his theory.

    Yes, but she didn't carry JBR. Still it's a strange place to place the note if you plan to go down that way.
     
  7. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    Dr. Henry Lee bought the same type of underwear in a package and found DNA on them too. I believe Lee said that in the manufacturing process, up to eight different people handle the garment before it is finally packaged.
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave New Member

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    "Question: What are the odds that any assembly line worker would be holding one of the many Wed. pairs up to his mouth like a tissue when innocently sneezing?"

    You don't understand, Eagle1. This is important: It's not an assembly line. It's more like sweat-shop labor: you have a whole lot of tables with sewing machines and one person at each table putting them together one at a time. It's laid out right in front of them. A sneeze would not be unthinkable.

    Glad I could help you out.

    "Anyone had any experience in a garment factory? Do the individual pairs ever get touched by any employee?"

    In the scenario I just outlined? Absolutely!

    "I'm with you Eagle... and didn't an 'expert, using that term lightly, say that a new pair of size 12 bloomies were tested which resulted in the exact same foreign DNA found in the ones found on JBR?"

    I missed that one. Wish I had seen it.

    "And that there's got to be another reason other than the Rs' wealth. Other wealthy people in this nation have been prosecuted for murders and all sorts of things. There's just got to be more to that, don't you think?"

    Not really.
     
  9. UKGuy

    UKGuy Active Member

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    Eagle1,

    The underwear is manufactured using precut templates for the back, front and crotch.

    Depending on its customisation its then sewn on machines controlled by operators, the basic line will just get packaged for dispatch.

    Customised versions that include lace, logo's, gussets etc require additional handling by human operators as they make their way down the line of sewing machines.

    If the factory is doing its job properly a random 5 pairs in lets say every thousand will be removed from the warehouse and checked against the manufacturing standards, so during the post-production checks human intervention is likely, as is the real possibility those that pass are simply repackaged and sent on their way.

    The handling alone never mind sneezing can contribute to the transfer of human dna via sweat, and the natural descaling of skin.

    So although it seems an outlandish event, statistically its not an impossibility.

    This may be why Karr's dna never matched, or the dna may represent a sample transferred by the killer, and it need not be his either!

    I guess this is why Mr Lee said, paraphrasing: Rice cooked! etc.


    .
    .
     
  10. cindysnow3

    cindysnow3 Member

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    I myself have worked in an assembly line sewing factory. (Van Heusen, Ozark Al) each worker has there own job they are required to do on each garment no matter what it may be. ex.. on shirts it may be sleeves, side panels, back, cuffs, or collars, I'm sure underwear is no different. Myself I never did underwear but I'm sure it works the same. It goes down the line until it is time for packaging. Everyone is given their own # to inspect once the product is finished. I hope I have helped in some way.
     
  11. leighl

    leighl New Member

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    In answer to the original question, I can remember an old Fruit of the Loom commercial where the undies all had to pass the final inspection of a grandmotherly type figure. Do you remember this commercial? She would tug and pull on them and examine all the seams before putting the final "passed inspection" sticker on them. Of course, this is not how it really happens but the post above was correct in stating that most garments, undies included, are put together in sweatshops, each person sits a fabric cutting/sewing table and is assigned a specific task, with the garment passing through many hands before it is completed. It is more time/cost effective to have different persons performing different tasks rather than having each person complete an entire garment one at a time. Often when I purchase a new garment, again undies included, they have a "inspected by" x sticker in them. Besides the people that put the garments together, a final inspecter often puts a sticker on each garment marking it as perfect or imperfect together with his/her id number. Yes, it is quite likely that DNA could be deposited by way of sweat, sneeze, cough, etc. in this process. I wonder if Patsy would have washed any new garment before wearing?
     
  12. cindysnow3

    cindysnow3 Member

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    Leigh I feel you bring up a good question here. I myself wash every item I buy before wearing. I don't no whether anyone else does this, but it would be wise to do this as it would eliminate any dna from previous places, ex.. factories, others that may have tried clothing on not just under garments.
     
  13. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Former Member

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    Hey, that might be a good idea!

    Thanks, everyone, for the thoughts. I did wonder if maybe the crotch has to be sewed in by hand, and elastic put onto the waste band and leg openings, but okay, now the question is wouldn't the dna on the hands wear off after a while, after handling so many pairs? This is mass production, remember, and would move pretty fast. If there's a night shift, probably they wouldn't sweat as much, right?

    "Sweat shops" may indeed mean some sweat gets on every article. We don't know how much sweat. So we really should launder our new stuff before wearing it. Good thinking. But obviously every one wouldn't be sneezed on. All the samples that they tested matched? ONE employee?

    And the DNA from JonBenet's own pair is being kept in CODIS, so evidently someone who matches could still come on the scene. There's still something not quite entirely right about the sweat theory, we may think of later.
     
  14. SuperDave

    SuperDave New Member

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    Just trying to help you out, Eagle1.

    Can't change the fact that human DNA was found on other pairs.
     

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